News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by Sir_Cmpwn on Monday August 06, 2018 @12:35PM (#17699137)
OpenBazaar is tied to cryptocurrency, which makes it a non-starter.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by hardwaresofton on Monday August 06, 2018 @12:48PM (#17699290)
I get the desire to avoid cryptocurrency in general but as a technology it is a good fit (quite possibly the only fit, I'm not sure what other decentralized payment systems are out there) for what they want to achieve.

There has been discussion on whether they accept other forms of payment[0] (probably lots and lots of times), and supposedly they'll take PRs. Maybe someone should write an external payment API that really just acts like a dummy "blockchain" and works off of human verifications (along with some sort of trust score).

That, or someone could theoretically create a blockchain that did nothing but validate payments on other platforms (I have no idea how it would work but it seems possible), so a payment on the imaginary blockchain would equal a confirmed payment on some payment platform with sufficient API support.

[EDIT]- found another thread[1]

[0]: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenBazaar/comments/2lddjy/besides_...

[1]: https://www.reddit.com/r/OpenBazaar/comments/531vui/openbaza...

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by Sir_Cmpwn on Monday August 06, 2018 @12:53PM (#17699350)
Or you could rip all of this BS out and just integrate with existing, non-decentralized payment processors, and avoid alienating all non-technical users in the process.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by hardwaresofton on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @12:01AM (#17703779)
So the thing is Bitcoin isn't bullshit. The technology and the papers are solid -- it's the application and the resulting hypetrain and what it spawned that you're railing against (from what I can tell, please let me know if I'm wrong).

Bitcoin does not have 0 use cases, it has ~1 that's extremely rare in practice, so much so that it's usually not worth using bitcoin. But it does have a usecase. Something something spherical cows.

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by 127 on Monday August 06, 2018 @06:37PM (#17702386)
Most payment processors are highly mutable by US politics.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by paulddraper on Monday August 06, 2018 @08:14PM (#17702890)
In what way?
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by 127 on Monday August 06, 2018 @10:56PM (#17703580)
Julian Assange is one good example. The recent Iranian attempt to withdraw 350 million from a German bank is another.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by bufferoverflow on Monday August 06, 2018 @01:12PM (#17699542)
Most cryptocurrency is easier to use than a credit card. You scan a QR code and click "confirm" to pay. So that "non-technical" criticism is a red herring.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by koube on Monday August 06, 2018 @01:37PM (#17699786)
I disagree with this. The process for 99% of people to use a credit card is "reach in your wallet, hand a card over or type in the number". The process for 99% of people to use crypto is "read on wikipedia on what cryptocurrency is, ask someone how to use it, get a lengthy lecture about how distributed currency is the future", and then they're still not anywhere close to using crypto.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by mkirklions on Monday August 06, 2018 @02:15PM (#17700078)
I find crypto currency identical in difficulty as using foreign currency.

Once you convert Fiat to crypto, its easier to spend than using a debit/credit card.

Getting it from Fiat to crypto is the hard part. After that you literally scan a QR code or type in an email.

Its my preferred way of paying because I always have my phone but I dont always keep my wallet in my pocket. I dont need to add my address and birth date. I just send money.

Also, to clarify, I'm not a fan of alt coins(at the moment) only Bitcoin I believe is useful. Between coinbase Email, Shift card, and the usual on-chain txns, Ive basically made the change to Bitcoin lifestyle.

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by koube on Monday August 06, 2018 @03:52PM (#17701135)
I find it more difficult to use Canadian dollars than US dollars in the United states, to the point that I have never used Canadian dollars in my daily life, and I would speculate that 99% of people would have the same experience.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by bobthepanda on Monday August 06, 2018 @02:46PM (#17700371)
> I find crypto currency identical in difficulty as using foreign currency.

The vast majority of people would find it burdensome to convert their money to another currency, and then use that on a normal basis. Of course if you ignore the hardest part, it's "easy".

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by dolessdrugs on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @12:24PM (#17708016)
He never said easy, he said as hard, which is true.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by y4mi on Monday August 06, 2018 @03:42PM (#17701019)
The problem is always wherever the other party supports your payment methods. You can literally pay by holding a smart watch over a supporting terminal. the same with online shops and Google wallet, Amazon pay or whatever

There are so many options at this point that I never get why anyone makes this about crypto currency. Most of these options are older and more widespread than Bitcoin as well.

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by spookthesunset on Monday August 06, 2018 @03:20PM (#17700801)
> Most cryptocurrency is easier to use than a credit card.

It is until it isn't.

- Got screwed by a vendor and want to issue a chargeback? Nope. Can't do it.

- Sent to the wrong address because of a typo? Sorry for your loss!

- Got your wallet emptied by a malicious program running on your computer? Sorry for your loss.

- Too many people using the crypto, resulting in confirmations taking forever and/or costing a ton? Too bad, so sad!

- Fiat price of crypto swung widly before / after transaction resulting in your purchase costing far more / less than expected? Should have hodl'd buster!

- Want to convert all that BTC into fifthly dirty fiat? Better find an exchange that actually pays out in USD and not tether. Also better hope that said exchange actually has the money and isn't insolvent.

etc...

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by TylerE on Monday August 06, 2018 @01:33PM (#17699740)
That's like saying driving a car is simpler than walking because you don't have to put on shoes.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by mmanfrin on Monday August 06, 2018 @02:51PM (#17700432)
You've either missed the obvious or willfully ignored the fact that to use crytpo, you must first have it. This is what makes it untenable for the majority of people.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by antidesitter on Monday August 06, 2018 @12:59PM (#17699400)
Do you know why OpenBazaar chose to support cryptocurrency?
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by QML on Monday August 06, 2018 @01:33PM (#17699742)
There's a lot of information already here [1], but I might add it'd be easier to create a Bitcoin wallet for each user than to open a PayPal or Stripe account for each.

[1] https://openbazaar.org/features/

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by mkirklions on Monday August 06, 2018 @02:16PM (#17700091)
Im pretty sick of websites asking for my home address, phone number, and (most importantly) my email address.

This is easily one of my favorite parts about Bitcoin. Scan the address and you are done.

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by WorldMaker on Monday August 06, 2018 @02:51PM (#17700431)
This is an orthogonal concern. The only one of those necessary for US CC processing is Zip code, and only some of the time, which the CC processor will tell you when and you could handle as call-and-response. The other stuff can also be dropped from most CC-processing stores, they just don't want to because they like having that information just incase they need to ship something, or definitely in case they get marketing ideas to send you.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by cjhanks on Monday August 06, 2018 @03:00PM (#17700558)
Or, build in integrated `crypto <--> $$` exchange.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by cryptobeanbaby on Monday August 06, 2018 @03:48PM (#17701088)
There's no point in doing that, because if you can do that you can do $$ <--> $$
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by s73v3r_ on Monday August 06, 2018 @12:42PM (#17699232)
It can't be that hard to change it to use whatever payment processor the seller wants, shouldn't it?
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by Sir_Cmpwn on Monday August 06, 2018 @12:46PM (#17699267)
Well, it's probably require a fork. Cryptocurrency is already tightly integrated with OpenBazaar. This also removes all of the platform's credibility in my eyes.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by antidesitter on Monday August 06, 2018 @12:55PM (#17699368)
Why does it remove all of the platform’s credibility in your eyes?
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by Sir_Cmpwn on Monday August 06, 2018 @02:07PM (#17700024)
Because it shows that they're more interested in riding the crypto hype wave than in solving real problems.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by SamPatt on Monday August 06, 2018 @02:33PM (#17700234)
OpenBazaar is over four years old now. It didn't emerge out of blockchain hype.

Cryptocurrency means it can be completely peer to peer and not reliant on any payment processing platforms, and with multisig is allows for powerful escrow as well.

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by Sir_Cmpwn on Monday August 06, 2018 @02:37PM (#17700276)
Hype has certainly peaked recently but that doens't mean they weren't a part of it. Blockchain has been hype for a long time.

I understand the "benefits" of cryptocurrency. They're all outweighed by people wanting their money to have a stable value so they can realistically budget their real life expenses. In the bubble cryptocurrency nuts live in where they don't have to worry about real world problems like carefully budgeting their paychecks, it might work, but software like OpenBazaar crashes right into reality.

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by mbrock on Monday August 06, 2018 @03:55PM (#17701163)
Do you think there’s any chance that within 5 years there will be a somewhat widely accessible cryptotoken whose value is decently stable in the short and medium term, so that platforms like OpenBazaar would become at least viable for early adopter types and their friends?
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by Sir_Cmpwn on Monday August 06, 2018 @04:11PM (#17701321)
I can't predict something like that on that kind of timescale. Within the next year, no.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by mbrock on Monday August 06, 2018 @04:26PM (#17701464)
I’m just asking because you seem to insist that OpenBazaar is an inevitable failure and a useless waste of time, while I can imagine it being quite successful within a few years.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by antidesitter on Monday August 06, 2018 @02:23PM (#17700144)
they're more interested in riding the crypto hype wave than in solving real problems

On what basis do you make that accusation? And how does supporting cryptocurrency preclude them from solving "real problems", whatever that means?

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by Sir_Cmpwn on Monday August 06, 2018 @02:33PM (#17700239)
Because cryptocurrency is clearly the wrong solution to this problem. If they actually wanted to make a decentralized marketplace non-technical people can use they would not have used cryptocurrency.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by antidesitter on Monday August 06, 2018 @02:45PM (#17700361)
cryptocurrency is clearly the wrong solution to this problem

Why is it the "wrong" solution to making a decentralized marketplace? What's the "right" solution?

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by Sir_Cmpwn on Monday August 06, 2018 @02:54PM (#17700486)
I've spoken about that in other branches of this thread. This tree is getting too deep, just read my other comments.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by antidesitter on Monday August 06, 2018 @03:08PM (#17700664)
Can you indicate which comment you're referring to?
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by acct1771 on Monday August 06, 2018 @06:56PM (#17702492)
The one where he says "Let MasterCard/VISA/US Gov control the digital economy."
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by antidesitter on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @01:03AM (#17704000)
Let MasterCard/VISA/US Gov control the digital economy.

And how is this a decentralized marketplace?

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by tekknik on Monday August 06, 2018 @09:02PM (#17703110)
what exactly are you trying to buy where any of those parties would care? I personally don’t care for another silk road. Anything else I buy I’m completely fine with any of those companies and my gov knowing
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by acct1771 on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @09:08AM (#17706188)
A Wikileaks tshirt...?

Why take the risk, when we can handle it ourselves?

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by DoctorOetker on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @09:19AM (#17706275)
disregarding contraband, lots of people distrust the non-transparent bidding system on centralised platforms
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by s73v3r_ on Monday August 06, 2018 @02:54PM (#17700482)
Something that the local people are actually using.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by antidesitter on Monday August 06, 2018 @03:08PM (#17700662)
Can you be more specific? Are you referring to cash?
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by baq on Monday August 06, 2018 @04:17PM (#17701377)
Exactly. Or credit/debit cards.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by antidesitter on Monday August 06, 2018 @05:25PM (#17701914)
How do you propose cash transactions be carried out over the internet?

How do credit/debit cards satisfy the proposition of a decentralized marketplace?

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by s73v3r_ on Monday August 06, 2018 @06:59PM (#17702506)
"How do credit/debit cards satisfy the proposition of a decentralized marketplace?"

They're something that most people are actually using, allowing the marketplace to actually conduct commerce and exist.

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by antidesitter on Monday August 06, 2018 @08:28PM (#17702943)
Does a cryptocurrency-based market not conduct commerce and exist right now?

And again, how do credit/debit cards—which are centralized systems—satisfy the proposition of a decentralized market?

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by s73v3r_ on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @11:59AM (#17707789)
Not for most people, no.

"And again, how do credit/debit cards—which are centralized systems—satisfy the proposition of a decentralized market?"

They allow the market to actually exist, by using something that the people are actually using.

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by antidesitter on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @03:09PM (#17709600)
They allow the market to actually exist

But a decentralized market does exist with cryptocurrencies.

And credit/debit cards aren’t decentralized.

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by s73v3r_ on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @06:15PM (#17711363)
"And credit/debit cards aren’t decentralized."

Doesn't matter. That's what the majority of people are using; so if you want the marketplace to actually be able to serve people, and get them to actually buy stuff, you need to support them.

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by antidesitter on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @08:29PM (#17712198)
What the majority of people are currently using is irrelevant. The whole topic of this thread is creating decentralized markets, and you're saying the fact that these payment processors are centralized doesn't matter. That doesn't make any sense.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by PascLeRasc on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @01:37PM (#17717780)
It sounds like a good compromise would be to allow people to check out with a credit card/paypal and have an instant conversion to BTC behind the scenes, maybe with a 2% fee or something.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by s73v3r_ on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @01:47PM (#17717861)
"What the majority of people are currently using is irrelevant. "

Not if you actually want your marketplace to be able to, you know, sell stuff to people.

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by antidesitter on Thursday August 09, 2018 @10:51PM (#17730343)
I see you conveniently ignored the rest of my comment.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by tekknik on Monday August 06, 2018 @09:05PM (#17703125)
Perhaps the idea of a decentralized marketplace is a bad idea? What benefit does this actually give me in my everyday life where I don’t need to buy toilet paper anonymously?
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by antidesitter on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @01:00AM (#17703977)
Perhaps the idea of a decentralized marketplace is a bad idea?

Clearly not for the people using it right now.

What benefit does this actually give me in my everyday life where I don’t need to buy toilet paper anonymously?

Are you asking why someone would want to transact anonymously?

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by s73v3r_ on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @11:59AM (#17707782)
For most things, most people don't care.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by PascLeRasc on Wednesday August 08, 2018 @01:28PM (#17717701)
Craigslist does fine [grasping for a number] 95% of the time.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by arisAlexis on Monday August 06, 2018 @06:31PM (#17702358)
they just don't
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by arisAlexis on Monday August 06, 2018 @06:31PM (#17702352)
its not difficult to understand that if you make this system with existing currencies it is centralised by default since the payment processors can and will enforce restrictions. then why make it decentralised?
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by api on Monday August 06, 2018 @03:17PM (#17700776)
During the height of dot.com mania would you have written off all web projects?

People did. I remember reading those kinds of comments.

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by Sir_Cmpwn on Monday August 06, 2018 @04:22PM (#17701421)
Do I have to remind you what happened between peak dot com hype and the modern web?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Early_2000s_recession

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by api on Monday August 06, 2018 @04:52PM (#17701689)
Sure. I expect that in cryptocurrency when the current bubble pops.

It's likely that the most interesting things in cryptocurrency will be introduced during the crypto-recession. Right now there is too much noise.

Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by arisAlexis on Monday August 06, 2018 @06:29PM (#17702344)
or maybe you are resistant to change and fail to see the value of decentralised money ?
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by s73v3r_ on Tuesday August 07, 2018 @12:00PM (#17707793)
Or maybe it's nowhere near there yet, and they want to help solve the problem they see now.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by SamPatt on Monday August 06, 2018 @02:36PM (#17700265)
We would absolutely welcome attempts to integrate other forms of payment into OpenBazaar. Our escrow system currently relies on multisig but that's the only significant impediment to adoption.
Re:Nile: decentralized, commission-free, local-economy focus... by arisAlexis on Monday August 06, 2018 @06:26PM (#17702318)
why a non-starter can you explain? cryptocurrency is very good for these use cases