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Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by chiph on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @07:54PM (#17658403)
I like my rewards Visa more than I like Kroger. Good luck with that ban, guys.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by Johnny555 on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @12:47AM (#17659770)
I like my rewards Visa...

That's why Kroger is willing to turn you away -- they don't want to pay for your rewards.

In a business where profit margins can be a thin 1 - 2%, losing some customers that cost a 3% transaction fee while driving others to cheaper transactions can be a net win despite losing business.

Though I suspect that Visa will blink first before other retailers decide to do the same.

Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by bostonvaulter2 on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @10:56PM (#17659291)
I wish credit card fees would come down, they're ridiculously high and increase the price of doing business, which increases the prices you pay for items.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by cycrutchfield on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @11:05PM (#17659333)
Most people that care get a substantial portion of those fees back (either as cash or rewards). So in reality, those fees are a tax on the poor, the un-creditworthy, and the financially illiterate.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by jimmy1 on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @12:26AM (#17659667)
Most places that the poor (at least in rural areas) shop at offer substantial discounts for paying with cash. There is typically the "cash" price and the "card" price. At a liquor store, a 44 dollar bottle paid with card is 39 dollars cash. A haircut at the local barber is 13 dollars cash or 15 dollars card.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by SlowRobotAhead on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @01:32AM (#17659947)
>At a liquor store, a 44 dollar bottle paid with card is 39 dollars cash

The credit card fee is not 12.8% to 15%, that isn’t even a convinence fee. That’s your liquor store not reporting sales and not paying taxes. That’s a big reason why some businesses won’t take cards.

Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by jimmy1 on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @05:41PM (#17667267)
> not reporting sales and not paying taxes

I don't ever assume malice when there is a simpler answer, besides this store is prominent and at the border so they wouldn't be that dumb. The simpler answer is they give a small discount on cash, and a small markup on card purchases to really encourage cash. They are a deregulated liquor state (so they don't have a state ran "Liquor board") which means they can offer much lower prices than just across the border. And I am sure the owner just prefers to go down the street to his or her local branch and say hi to the teller and just deposit cash. Some people just like to do things the old fashioned way. My barber is the exact same way -- he doesn't take card at all, only cash.

Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by ams6110 on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @01:03AM (#17659851)
My barber doesn't take cards at all. Cash or check only.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by northwest66 on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @01:47AM (#17660009)
Do you mean one of those things they write on paper slips when you say check? Which country are you from?
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by Symbiote on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @02:09AM (#17660092)
The American spelling of cheque is check, and they're still very common there. That's exactly what they mean.
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Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by zaarn on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @05:45AM (#17661009)
You know, people from the US say that a lot but in other countries like germany where >75% of purchases are cash and a lot of stores are cash only, this doesn't seem to be a problem at all...
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by h2j24 on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @08:07AM (#17661712)
I think Germans genuinely enjoy paying taxes. One need not look farther than Germany's close neighbors (Italy, Greece) to see that many people do underreport cash revenue.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by kasey_junk on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @11:06PM (#17659341)
I assume they meant merchant fees.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by throwaway76543 on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @11:27PM (#17659416)
Merchants raise prices to compensate. That is why it is "the poor, the un-creditworthy, and the financially illiterate" who ultimately pay.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by kasey_junk on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @11:37PM (#17659454)
Sure but I think the argument is that because those merchant fees are unknowable no one can make intelligent choices around them. The disadvantaged are obviously more impacted but it’s possible that all of us not in credit card employ or shareholder are taxed. A prisoners dilemma sort of thing.

But we are well past my economics understanding.

Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by freeone3000 on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @09:06AM (#17662095)
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by kasey_junk on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @03:24PM (#17666053)
Its unknowable what merchants are marking their prices up as.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by throwaway76543 on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @02:12AM (#17660102)
We know generally what the rates are and the statement above is accurate: "Most people that care get a substantial portion of those fees back (either as cash or rewards)"
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by sokoloff on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @11:26PM (#17659414)
Probably so. That's where the money for the cash-back comes from, after all...
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by viraptor on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @11:27PM (#17659422)
Do you really? Maybe it's country-specific, but in Australia there are no programs which give you that many benefits. Likely the best are the airline points, and even then they don't cover close to the payment processing fee total.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by SyneRyder on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @01:37AM (#17659972)
There's been a recent change in Australia, the Reserve Bank put a cap on the maximum interchange fee credit card companies can charge in Australia (capped at 0.8%). As a result, many of the cards that earned the best rewards have been scrapped. I had an AmEx card that was good for earning airline points, the bank cancelled the card after the Reserve Bank ruling.

https://www.smh.com.au/business/banking-and-finance/rba-chan...

Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by aptwebapps on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @11:37PM (#17659455)
Besides the various more complicated rewards systems, you can get 2% cash back on a few cards, although 1 or 1.5% is more common. 2% is most of the transaction fee, in some cases more.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by megy on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @12:23AM (#17659643)
ING in Australia used to give you 5% back on their credit card, they stopped it earlier this year.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by mmirate on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @08:30AM (#17661860)
> tax on the poor, the un-creditworthy, and the financially illiterate.

Taxation is glorified theft, but in this case I don't care because these are acceptable targets.

Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by dang on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @03:04PM (#17665848)
If you continue to post uncivil/unsubstantive comments and use HN for ideological battle, we will ban you. We've already warned you more than once.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by mmirate on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @07:19PM (#17667950)
The comment I was replying-to was also putting forth an ideological argument. (Or at least attempting to, via connotations.)
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by will_dev_4_food on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @10:39PM (#17659216)
Visa likes their 3% which is auto deducted from your purchase, so I guess many “real people” will be cheering for Visa.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by parshimers on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @08:18PM (#17658535)
Seriously, dealing with cash is a hassle, especially on a self-checkout. Arco has tried the same nonsense and I avoid them at every turn, because it requires me to a) have cash and b) stand in line to pay , rather than it taking a moment to swipe a card.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by jchb on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @12:48AM (#17659773)
Why do you need to stand in line to pay with cash? Maybe the self-checkout machine in particular only accepts cards, but it could look like this: https://www.ecrs.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/fujitsu-gene... - I see these all the time.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by bowmessage on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @12:27PM (#17664025)
Arco is a gas station - the pumps don't accept cash so the only way to pay cash is to wait inside to speak with the cashier.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by toomuchtodo on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @10:16PM (#17659134)
Kroger has most likely done the math with their Kroger rewards program (which has historical payment data), and has determined most people won't care and will switch to debit or a non-Visa CC network instead.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by kevin_thibedeau on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @11:28PM (#17659423)
Wal-Mart has had success with forcing debit transactions to withhold merchant fees.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by toomuchtodo on Tuesday July 31, 2018 @11:53PM (#17659504)
They’re also trying to push Walmart Pay as well. At their scale, it’s worth it.

Despite the pain, I still think Walmart should’ve acquired and rebranded a bank, and offered financial products. Would do wonders for the unbanked, while keeping their transaction fees down.

Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by MrEldritch on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @12:46AM (#17659765)
I seem to recall from a previous discussion about the possibility of Amazon buying a bank that such an arrangement would be extremely illegal.

IIRC, there's a law expressly prohibiting any company from both acting as a bank and a retail business.

edit: Yep, there is. The Bank Holding Company Act prevents companies in commerce from engaging in banking activities.

Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by pseingatl on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @01:09AM (#17659874)
Laws can be changed. An entity like Amazon can lobby for a change. Donate money to politicians likely to vote for a change. Call for a change on the editorial page of the Washington Post. Remember, once upon a time, there was but one phone company. Then the law changed... Interstate/branch banking was illegal. Then the law changed. Amazon could probably set up a members-(i.e., customers) only credit union without too much difficulty.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by MrEldritch on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @01:29AM (#17659942)
>Despite the pain, I still think Walmart should’ve acquired and rebranded a bank, and offered financial products.

I just wanted to point out that this was actually significantly more difficult than the parent comment may have realized.

Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by kevin_b_er on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @03:02PM (#17665825)
That was deregulated by the Gramm–Leach–Bliley Act in 1999 and likely led to the subprime mortgage crisis. It permitted the creation of the "too big to fail" superbanks.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by wiredfool on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @02:04AM (#17660077)
How did Sears do it with Discover, or is this a recent thing?
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by MrEldritch on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @02:27AM (#17660154)
I was able to find the law I was thinking of, and it was passed in 1956, so not terribly recent, no.

Apparently it's because the BHCA defines banks as entities marketing both checking accounts and commercial loans, and Discover Bank makes no commercial loans and is thus not, under the terms of that law, technically an actual bank.

(Also, apparently the BHCA restricts banks from operating across state lines, too.)

Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by toomuchtodo on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @09:30AM (#17662292)
So Walmart could offer checking accounts as long as they don’t lend.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by MrEldritch on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @09:46AM (#17662416)
Yep. I thought the law was more restrictive than it was.
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by caspper69 on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @08:50AM (#17661992)
They tried. IIRC they were going to buy Green Dot outright, but they were rebuffed by regulators.

So instead they took a small ownership position <5%, in order to avoid the reporting and regulatory hassles while still getting sweetheart deals.

Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by dylan604 on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @01:58AM (#17660054)
> They’re also trying to push Walmart Pay as well.

I wonder whatever happened to that digital pay system pushed by WalMart that was supposed to be on the level of ApplePay? There was a lot of chatter about it around the time of the release of ApplePay, but I haven't seen much about it since. It was some weird transaction process, open the app, present QR code, do something else on app, re-present QR code or something along those lines.

Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by dwaite on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @05:50AM (#17661034)
It was probably based on their membership in the Merchant Customer Exchange (MCX), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Customer_Exchange
Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by Marsymars on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @02:29AM (#17660163)
> Despite the pain, I still think Walmart should’ve acquired and rebranded a bank, and offered financial products.

They do, outside the US. They operate Walmart Canada Bank (and issue Walmart Mastercards), although they've recently sold it.

Re:Credit-Card Backlash Mounts as Kroger Weighs Expanding Vi... by d4rti on Wednesday August 01, 2018 @05:58AM (#17661080)
Tesco and Sainsbury's both have banks in the UK.