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Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by Arn_Thor on Thursday June 28, 2018 @01:14AM (#17414239)
As someone who'd been in the Mac ecosystem and paid the price in time and expense of leaving for a PC a few years back, I'm starting to lean back toward the Mac side. The amount of fiddling and headaches I'm dealing with on Windows is just a huge waste of time. Had to reinstall all my programs after a recent Windows update ruined the OS.
Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by vincnetas on Thursday June 28, 2018 @01:43AM (#17414370)
Have mac book air from 2013. Went through all OS upgrades with no reinstalls. Even upgraded SSD from 128 to 512 with flawless backup from timecapsule. Can't even image this happening on windows...
Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by invalidusernam3 on Thursday June 28, 2018 @07:06AM (#17415832)
I recently had a hard drive failure on my primary HD in my mac pro (desktop, the old shape). The machine wouldn't boot into the OS at all.

I bought a new HD and ran the recovery tool which gave me an option to clone from another drive. I figured I might as well give it a try even though the old HD seemed completely dead.

After a couple of hours the machine rebooted using the new HD. The amazing part is not only were are my files perfectly intact, but the exact same applications I had open when the old HD died opened up automatically on the new HD.

Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by tonyedgecombe on Thursday June 28, 2018 @01:56AM (#17414422)
Time Capsule is interesting, it's been consistent since its release in 2008 and has worked flawlessly for me. Compare that to Windows backup which changes to a new incompatible product with every new version of Windows and is so riddled with flaws its unusable.
Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by dagw on Thursday June 28, 2018 @04:07AM (#17414971)
I'm on the whole pretty happy with Windows, but I've never understood how they can consistently fail to deliver a working easy to use backup solution out of the box for decades. Mere incompetence shouldn't be able to deliver such terrible implementations, it's almost like they're actively trying to fuck it up.
Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by stefanfisk on Thursday June 28, 2018 @01:19AM (#17414253)
this is what's keeping me from switching. every time I try spending a day on Windows I remember just how much macOS "just works", even if it has warts all over the place.
Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by BinaryIdiot on Thursday June 28, 2018 @02:00AM (#17414434)
See, I've always used both and I just don't understand this whole "I have to spend a day on Windows making X work". I haven't experienced this in at least a decade. Windows 10 "just works" with every device and software I've thrown at it.
Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by geomark on Thursday June 28, 2018 @02:13AM (#17414491)
That's the thing about anecdotes, one person's experience is completely opposite of anothers. I got a laptop with Windows 10 on it and immediately experienced the "100% disk utilization problem", which makes it basically unusable. I Googled around and found hundreds of posts about the problem and many dozens of suggested fixes of which zero worked (for me). So it's sitting on a shelf until I get around to installing Ubuntu on it, which has always just worked for me (which is the opposite of some other people's experiences).
Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by stefanfisk on Thursday June 28, 2018 @02:47AM (#17414606)
it's also very dependent on what you want to use your computer for. as a frontend dev I want a mix of Adobe CS and a bunch of primarily posix compatible tools, and then Windows is seriously suboptimal.

but even beyond that the sheer number of popups and shit I need to close when starting from a clean install on Windows makes me want to punch the computer, and naturally that is a very subjective experience. and stuff like apps stealing focus in general. if a mac app makes itself the key window in a non-standard way I immediately consider uninstalling it, on win that just seems to be what all apps do when opening new windows.

Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by BinaryIdiot on Thursday June 28, 2018 @05:38AM (#17415395)
> as a frontend dev I want a mix of Adobe CS and a bunch of primarily posix compatible tools, and then Windows is seriously suboptimal.

Not sure why it's suboptimal, WSL is amazing. I am primary a frontend dev as well and do most of my building / start-up / testing of my work inside of a terminal. It's great and Adobe works great as well with the added bonus of the better Windows dropdowns (Mac OS dropdowns drive me nuts but for Windows you can give one focus and scroll through all the options with the keyboard).

> but even beyond that the sheer number of popups and shit I need to close when starting from a clean install on Windows makes me want to punch the computer, and naturally that is a very subjective experience.

When I first started up I had like 2 notifications to use Edge and something else and that was it. When I enrolled in the Windows beta I received a few more for requests for feedback, which it warned me about ahead of time. Not sure why you had so many pop-ups and I've had basically none.

It's always so weird to me how my experience with Windows machines differs from those who prefer Macs. I own and use both and they both seem pretty great to me. The only big thing is I make sure to only buy Windows hardware from Microsoft to get their "genuine experience" because HP and everyone else likes to ruin it with their bullshit.

Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by stefanfisk on Sunday July 01, 2018 @10:08AM (#17435654)
Not to retort, but Mac also has keyboard navigation for the menus, but the default setting for focusing the menu is ^F2 which is quite bad.
Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by tushartyagi on Thursday June 28, 2018 @04:31AM (#17415076)
Not to counter your point, but I had that new remarkably stupid ":( Oops something went wrong" error popping up the morning I had to give a presentation. I have Windows 10 Home and it forced the updates, failed after an hour, and fucked up the boot partition, removing grub. So just before the presentation, I had to setup grub again and boot into Linux because windows was still stuck with updates. Thankfully my slides were on google drive.

On my office laptop though, Win 10 Pro has been pretty stable.

To get back to the main point, I usually have to spend a day with both Windows and Linux to install everything right from VLC to compilers. IMO setting up needs to be done on every machine, independently of the OS.

Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by winrid on Thursday June 28, 2018 @02:38AM (#17414571)
It has been the opposite for me since about Windows 7.

Work MacBook - have to restart it to get USB ports to work, screen flickers when you plug in an external monitor like X windows on an Unix terminal from '99 with a bad conf file... Comeon.

Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by stefanfisk on Thursday June 28, 2018 @02:48AM (#17414613)
sound like you've got one of the super common duds, apple will probably replace it if you ask them.
Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by winrid on Saturday June 30, 2018 @12:29AM (#17429475)
They're all software issues. I think all the MBP's in our office do this stuff. For instance, the external monitor and such works fine. It's just it is very un-elegant how it does the switch over.
Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by strls on Thursday June 28, 2018 @02:20AM (#17414512)
Windows is truly a pain like never before. Going Linux can be very easy these days, depending what you do on the machine.
Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by VexorLoophole on Thursday June 28, 2018 @04:12AM (#17414989)
Working with Unix-Servers every day i still would struggle with a Linux Machine. Tried it in the past and getting things to work wasn't a problem at all.

But 1) i have to admit that i like all this full aluminum fuckery (shame on me) 2) MacOS is for me more "batteries included" then any Unix-Flavor. Yes there a often alternatives on Linux, still i really like to get my shit done quick and easy with tools like preview for example. 3) Better Tools on MacOS: There is some great stuff out there which help me in every way. Alfred, MailMate, MoneyMoney, Postico, Royal TSX, Paw, ... good looking, functional tools. And still i can use all the great command line tools out of the linux world (vim/emacs, bash/zsh, compiler tools, ranger for filenavigation, ...).

I just hope Apple gets their shit together.

Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by AsyncAwait on Thursday June 28, 2018 @04:32AM (#17415080)
The XPS line has a similar build than the MBP.

In regards to tools, you can usually find a distro that is "batteries included", try KDE as your DE - There's great tools like Okular, Dolphin... Insomnia is a pretty looking Paw alternative etc, however I think the advantage with Linux is that you can often build it how you want, without the junk that is there and you don't even know what it does, but it consumes CPU cycles. Moreover, with distros like Arch Linux, you get practically all the available tools, always up to date, never have to reinstall, updates take a minute as opposed to half an hour and you can mange everything, (not just brew packages), with an awesome package manager.

Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by VexorLoophole on Thursday June 28, 2018 @04:55AM (#17415174)
Yes, i know.

I really don't want to say "MacOS > Unix" because of any reasons i mentioned. I also had ArchLinux as main OS on my Desktop, and also tried a new KDE Flavor.

But for me personally it was never as good as MacOS. Maybe i wasn't trying hard enough, or don't want to loose any spent $ on MacOS only software. Dunno. Anyway i just hope for myself that i can get a great MacBook again ;)

(What i missed the most on MacOS was always a fast and keyboard focused window manager like 2bwm. In the end i was able to recreate this behavior with hammerspoon and some custom lua scripts in combination with alfred. MacOS just looks sometimes a bit bloated with all these rounded egdes, drop shadows etc.)

Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by eecc on Thursday June 28, 2018 @02:41AM (#17414584)
Hopefully Systemd won’t mount your firmware on a rw partition and brick the laptop in an unfortunate update?

(Sarcasm aside... I’d flip in a heartbeat but despite macOS’s lapses, every single time I had to deal with a Linux desktop I regretted it.)

Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by pritambaral on Thursday June 28, 2018 @03:55AM (#17414920)
> Hopefully Systemd won’t mount your firmware on a rw partition and brick the laptop in an unfortunate update?

That's the hardware's fault.

Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by dTal on Thursday June 28, 2018 @04:17AM (#17415017)
Mounting a seldom-modified and highly sensitive and critical filesystem r/w by default, when the existence of buggy implementations is known, is a deeply irresponsible decision. Blaming the rest of the world for the fallout from their crappy design decisions is a pattern of behaviour among some systemd developers.

Fortunately you don't have to use systemd. I'm happily running Void Linux.

Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by JdeBP on Thursday June 28, 2018 @04:32AM (#17415081)
On the subject of what is known:

It displays some ignorance of this subject to blame it on systemd, when Matthew Garrett told people that it was really his fault.

* https://twitter.com/mjg59/status/693494314941288448

The people who relate the tale as if it were a systemd thing or something that the systemd people did are ill-informed. It was entirely a kernel thing. This was even stated outright at the time by the creator of that particular kernel mechanism.

To learn the real story, go and read https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11152880 where Matthew Garrett xyrself can be found participating in the discussion.

Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by eecc on Thursday June 28, 2018 @05:27AM (#17415338)
Well frankly I don’t really care who won the bickering contest on this one or any other. Simply put, I don’t have time for all the things I need to do or desire to, let alone “tighten all screws” to my machine every single day.

I remember a guy at Uni who’d come to the study room, update the various spyware, malware sigs and let the Win machine purge itself for half an hour, while he had coffe and cigarettes.

Since several years, my biggest hassle has been to plug a TM backup and choose “restore from backup” when I bought a new Mac.

Drivers, power management, tweaking this-and-that... nope, my life demands those minutes back. I’m actively worried when I see Apple fuck up and potentially ruin this status quo because “innovation”.

Re:Apple Engineers Its Own Downfall with the Macbook Pro Key... by dTal on Thursday June 28, 2018 @05:06AM (#17415232)
Fair enough. It seems the issue is more subtle than I'd thought.