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Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by tozeur on Friday June 22, 2018 @04:48AM (#17372482)
I don’t think you realize the security of our country has been built by hundreds of thousands of mechanical and electrical engineers, computer scientists, and physicists. Sure, working on military contracts may include uncomfortable problem spaces. But is it morally wrong to work on contracts that ultimately protect American lives?
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by Rotten194 on Friday June 22, 2018 @04:53AM (#17372507)
Do you sincerely believe that us dropping bombs in the middle east is "protecting American lives"? If anything, it's spawned a whole generation of terrorists who hate the US for destroying their country.

The best way to protect Americans would be for our country to get out of expensive, overseas wars and invest that money in healthcare and ending the drug war, things that actually kill Americans in large numbers.

Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by inglor on Friday June 22, 2018 @05:38AM (#17372688)
As an Israeli, I believe that US intervention in the long term and the fact we were stuck in a proxy of the cold war did us mostly harm.

While we see the US as an ally here - we haven't traditionally been at war with Arab countries and I think a big part of it was the influx of military equipment from the US to Israel and from the USSR (and later Russia) to the surrounding countries. (This is an oversimplification but for brevity - I opted for just the gist of things)

Intervention in Iran and conquering it and installing a puppet government (the Shah) also did more harm than good in retrospect.

I believe that if the US exported more education and equalizers (like more accessible MOOCs, better infrastructure companies to get work there, more remote position etc). It would both be more competitive economically and would contribute more to middle-east stability.

Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by dirtshell on Friday June 22, 2018 @06:03AM (#17372790)
"While we see the US as an ally here - we haven't traditionally been at war with Arab countries"

Literally since the founding of the state of Israel the country has been at war with the Arab nations. Could you expand on what you mean by this?

Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by yetanother1980 on Friday June 22, 2018 @06:16AM (#17372846)
No Israel hasn't been at war with its neighbouring Arab countries for a long time. They periodically attack Hezbollah, there is tension with Syria at the moment and obviously they are still occupying Palestine. However Egypt for example helps Israel with the Gaza blockade by not opening the Palestine-Egypt border.
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by v_lisivka on Friday June 22, 2018 @10:12AM (#17374080)
Hi tries to blame USA for mistakes of his own country.
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by tozeur on Friday June 22, 2018 @05:03AM (#17372552)
That is a very naive, but understandable, viewpoint. Take the time to learn about how important America’s military is to global stability: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/01/16/world/trump-m...
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by gambiting on Friday June 22, 2018 @05:12AM (#17372582)
And the New York Time's view on this issue is also understandable, but I sincerely believe that had it not been for US and its ventures abroad, we(over here in Europe) wouldn't need defending. Like when US wants to build anti-missile defense systems in Europe, and goes "look, we're just trying to save you from strikes from Middle East guys!" - great, but why would Middle East strike Poland for example? Oh that's right, because we're participating in every US war in that region. Great.

It's basically US stirring trouble all over the world and then saying "look how great we are for defending peace across the globe!".

Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by FanaHOVA on Friday June 22, 2018 @06:19AM (#17372853)
Europe has such a peaceful history, we never had wars over here until the US came around right? C'mon...
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by rixed on Friday June 22, 2018 @05:12AM (#17372581)
For some value of stability, I guess.
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by alexbeloi on Friday June 22, 2018 @05:23AM (#17372632)
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by mamon on Friday June 22, 2018 @05:17AM (#17372608)
Yours is equally naive, but understandable viewpoint :) If anything, America's role is destabilising (see attacking Iraq on false pretenses that destabilized Middle East and helped ISIS rise to power). The same goes for other wars waged by US: they are started to protect American economic interests, long term consequences be damned.
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by ionised on Friday June 22, 2018 @06:05AM (#17372803)
And by 'global stability' you of course mean, 'American financial interests'.
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by Amygaz on Friday June 22, 2018 @06:35AM (#17372911)
I by American you mean '0.1% of US Americans'.
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by realusername on Friday June 22, 2018 @05:02AM (#17372542)
> But is it morally wrong to work on contracts that ultimately protect American lives?

[citations needed]. I've not been aware of any war on US soil.

Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by majewsky on Friday June 22, 2018 @06:46AM (#17372952)
> I've not been aware of any war on US mainland in the past century.

FTFY

Pearl Harbor is very much on US soil.

Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by manigandham on Friday June 22, 2018 @06:54AM (#17372995)
This is a good thing, it means the defense is working.
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by icebraining on Friday June 22, 2018 @07:22AM (#17373098)
Do you want to buy my anti-tigers rock? I've never been attacked by a tiger while carrying it!
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by manigandham on Friday June 22, 2018 @01:26PM (#17375719)
What you and the other comment seem to miss is that there's nothing fake about the military which actively works for its citizens. But maybe it's all a big joke to you...
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by realusername on Friday June 22, 2018 @07:50AM (#17373241)
This is the same line of defense as the fake bomb detectors beeping randomly and sold a fortune.
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by bergoid on Friday June 22, 2018 @05:45AM (#17372722)
It's not too much of a stretch to describe 9/11 as an act of war.
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by lordnacho on Friday June 22, 2018 @05:57AM (#17372763)
I think you'll find quite a few people would find it is quite a stretch.

The attack was planned by a group that wasn't the internationally recognized leadership of any country, and they hid in a war-torn country whose government was being violently contested. And the Taliban were also not recognized, at least not officially, as the leadership of Afghanistan.

So to call it an act of war is indeed a stretch.

Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by bergoid on Friday June 22, 2018 @06:17AM (#17372852)
I think the idea of "asymmetric warfare" is well established and it fits totally your description.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asymmetric_warfare

Sure, there will always be people who think this not "real" war. But that's an irrelevant classification detail to the belligerents or the people caught up in the collateral damage.

Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by realusername on Friday June 22, 2018 @05:49AM (#17372731)
It's not too much of a stretch to describe the Bush claims leading to the Irak war as completely fabricated.
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by bergoid on Friday June 22, 2018 @06:02AM (#17372783)
Agreed.
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by CamperBob2 on Friday June 22, 2018 @05:50AM (#17372737)
But think of how much better off we'd be today if we hadn't treated it like one.

9/11 was not an act of war. It was the work of a few deranged cultists who got lucky, nothing more and nothing less. Our response was equivalent to reacting to the Branch Davidians by bombing the Vatican.

Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by ionised on Friday June 22, 2018 @06:07AM (#17372809)
Perpetrated by which nation?
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by Karishma1234 on Friday June 22, 2018 @06:15AM (#17372843)
It was not a war. Al Qaida was actually created and funded by US government using your money. It was more or less CIA agent gone rogue.
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by FearOfReprisal on Friday June 22, 2018 @06:21AM (#17372864)
An act of war by whom? Which nation? Osama Bin Laden was trained in the United States by Reagan's authority when he funded/supported the Mujahadeen in a proxy war against Russia.

Fast-forward 20 years to 9/11. Osama Bin Laden is funded by his family, and by other rich Saudis, which means the government of Saudi Arabia because all Saudi wealth is owned by the House of Saud.

But they're our allies, so instead, we attacked Iraq and Afghanistan, even though none of the 9/11 attackers were from either country. To get approval, we lied about Weapons of Mass Destruction, which we never found, because they didn't exist.

I'm not really following your war narrative, but I am finding a lot of cronyism and false flags.

Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by bergoid on Friday June 22, 2018 @09:53AM (#17373952)
I fully agree with your assessment of the reaction (or lack thereof, and its reasons) to 9/11 by the GWB administration. It is well supported by the testimony of Richard Clarke [1] and by the investigations of senator Bob Graham [2] [3] so I don't understand why your comment gets flagged.

My point was limited in scope to the 9/11 attack itself. I think terrorism on that scale can be classified as assymetric warfare.

Warfare predates nation states. Today, most of the world is parceled into nation states. But violent non-state actors never ceased to exist. And therefore we shouldn't limit our definition of warfare only to war between nation states.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_A._Clarke#9/11_Commiss...

[2] https://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/10/opinion/bob-graham-releas...

[3] https://www.amazon.com/Intelligence-Matters-Arabia-Failure-A...

Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by robin_reala on Friday June 22, 2018 @04:50AM (#17372493)
I’m not American.
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by drawnwren on Friday June 22, 2018 @05:40AM (#17372696)
Good news then, you aren't eligible to work on the vast majority of USG software projects. Definitely anything remotely related to military drones.
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by chrisper on Friday June 22, 2018 @06:25AM (#17372878)
The US is not the only country with a military and companies...
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by drawnwren on Saturday June 23, 2018 @12:27AM (#17379543)
No but in the context of Google refusing to work for the US DoD, it's pretty clear that most of the posters in this thread are talking about the US DoD/Silicon Valley relationship. Further, a comment like "I always tell employers I won't work for the military..." has a significantly different meaning if we're talking about Swedish tech companies and the Swedish military than if we're talking about US companies, so it would probably have been helpful to clear up the setting in this context.
Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by Karishma1234 on Friday June 22, 2018 @06:14AM (#17372839)
> But is it morally wrong to work on contracts that ultimately protect American lives?

Would love to work on actually protecting American lives but at this point Pentagon in an unaccountable monster that has actually funded terrorist organisations and has made America (and rest of the world) unsafe. Not to mention I find it morally reprehensible that our young kids are dying in distant third world countries like Iraq, Afganistan and Syria and involved in killing thousands little kids and innocent civilians in the name of "protecting American lives".

Re:Google Engineers Refused to Build Security Tool to Win Mi... by ionised on Friday June 22, 2018 @06:04AM (#17372795)
The US military is used as an invasion/occupation force way more often than any 'protecting American lives'.