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Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by fogzen on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @05:26PM (#16971834)
Best thing I did for my social life was stop working in tech and using tech as much as possible. I visit the same cafe every morning and now know all the regulars. I stopped buying groceries online and go to the store now. I call friends instead of texting and plan outings. I ride a bike and stop to chat with people wherever I go. I don’t watch TV, or play video games. I go the bookstore (only one left in my city) instead of Amazon, and I chat with people in the bookstore.

I now deeply regret working as a software engineer in my 20s, as I’ve realized it contributed massively to my loneliness. Which is sad because I used to be so excited about technology and now I see it as the biggest trend in reducing quality of life.

It seems the more interactions that are mediated by technology the less human contact we have.

Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by arthurmerlin on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @06:32PM (#16972348)
What do you do when your friends don't pick up, or if they aren't willing to go on outings with you? I think the biggest contributor to my loneliness is that no one seems to like me. I reach out to hang out, and usually, get rejected.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by stillsut on Wednesday May 02, 2018 @12:58AM (#16974170)
This will seem counter-intuitive but work on opening up strangers in public places, and your friends will end up gravitating towards you.

Gladwell observed in Tipping Point that most peoples' social circle is usually created by one high connection "maven" who connects many low connection end nodes. You want to try to move closer to how that maven operates.

Concretely: If you go out with a friend, and end up becoming buddies with the waitress, and then also know of an after party you can bring the friend to, by virtue of your network, you will constantly be getting solicited to hang out. Even more quantitatively: if you can average +2 casual connections per day when you try, you'll be doing very well. But two connections in a day is very difficult for most people on HN; you'll have to work and experiment on how to achieve that.

Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by taurath on Wednesday May 02, 2018 @02:16AM (#16974540)
I call those social connectors - one of the biggest differences I’ve seen having moved from California to the PNW is that they have large groups with absolutely no connectors. Having usually been one (but between groups), it’s signifcantly detracted from the quality of relationships here - it takes so much effort to get “into” a group because there is no front door, just a long slow osmosis by proximity.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by meej on Saturday May 05, 2018 @05:02PM (#17003797)
I lived in Seattle for seven years, and what I observed there was that people there are shy (not snobby or cliquish, as the "Seattle Freeze" stereotype implies), which means you need to approach them because they will never approach you. When I put energy into introducing myself to people, I always got good results and I made a lot of friends that way. In contexts where a conversation started before names were exchanged (like hanging out with the smokers outside), I noticed that people seemed relieved once I introduced myself. I've shared this with friends, some who have tried it with similar good results.

Another interesting dynamic in Seattle is that people seem to assume all the people they know already know each other, which means nobody tries to introduce people. I have an old friend up there who used to insist I already knew people I hadn't met, which was frustrating. The result of this tendency is a social network with a highly connected center and a lot of poorly connected leaves. This structure really revealed itself when my social network was struck by a tragedy where several people were victims of a shooting -- there was a group of people who all had direct connections to at least one victim, and another group who didn't know any of the victims personally but a majority of their friends had. I was in the latter group and I found it very strange.

It was a huge contrast when I moved to the Bay Area, where people assumed everyone was a transplant and went out of their way to do introductions. I was at a party once where I was reintroduced to the same person four times -- someone who I had already met years earlier.

Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by stillsut on Wednesday May 02, 2018 @02:31AM (#16974605)
Reminds me of the parable of the two shoe salesmen in Africa [0]. The point being, if there's all these isolated, lonely cliques, there's actually a huge opportunity for someone who can consistently connect with others starting out as a stranger.

[0]:http://johnassaraf.com/goal-achieving-2/a-tale-of-two-shoe-s...

Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by taurath on Wednesday May 02, 2018 @01:14PM (#16979058)
The opportunity is there but in seattle you definitely have a huge barrier - people will instantly mistrust you if you do anything other than the slow and steady route.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by xor1 on Wednesday May 02, 2018 @01:31AM (#16974311)
I'm kind of a maven, except all of my friends end up disliking each other.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by stillsut on Wednesday May 02, 2018 @02:19AM (#16974546)
Common misconception: having your finger in a lot of different pies is not being a Maven. If you joined an improv group, a church group, a softball team, and an MMA gym, you're at best a conglomerate, but more likely an overextended end node.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by xor1 on Thursday May 03, 2018 @09:36AM (#16985869)
I don't meet people through groups, I just go up to them in public
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by forapurpose on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @09:39PM (#16973413)
That can be really tough; I've had similar experiences and I'm sorry to see what you're going through. You are not the only one (there's an article above with the data!). I hope some of this helps; f some is way off base, ignore that part:

Most of all, have compassion for and care about yourself. It doesn't solve every problem, but it's the most important relationship you have by far. Without it, you'll always be lonely no matter who is around. With it, how others respond won't matter so much.

Have compassion for the other people too, especially those who don't respond. They have their own problems which have nothing to do with you, which, like everyone else's problems, might make them a*holes at times. The reasons they don't respond likely have nothing to do with you. Don't objectify them - don't make them characters in your narrative of your social life; they have their own narratives independently of everyone else.

Another reason to have compassion for them is that people in your situation tend to adopt a perspective where all the power is in the hands of others: They respond or they don't. It's not a healthy (or realistic) perspective; you have power too and they are flawed, vulnerable human beings too.

And more practically, instead of worrying about people who don't seem to respond, keep trying until you find some who do - it can be hard to motivate yourself but it's worth the effort. For everyone, there are plenty of both kinds and it's no shame if it doesn't work out with some - that's inevitable given the odds - or if the ones that will respond are hard to find. You don't need many successes to have a social life and you are worth the effort no matter how bad your experiences so far.

Finally, many people find themselves lonely at times in their life, and find they need only one really close relationship, a life partner. If you have yourself (see above) and a life partner, then the other relationships become much less significant. Maybe that's the real goal; it can take a lot of looking, but once you find the person you both have it made (with plenty of work!).

Good luck!

Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by majormajor on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @06:35PM (#16972366)
The only answer I ever found to this was "find different friends" - or, more directly, "find real friends who do like you more."

But it's very, very hard.

Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by sli on Wednesday May 02, 2018 @12:22PM (#16978539)
My biggest issue is similar. My friends and I can hang out together easily, but we don't really just hang out anymore, they always want to go to bars and I'm not really into that.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by ctchocula on Wednesday May 02, 2018 @04:06AM (#16974982)
I usually try to find out what passions the other person has. If somebody is passionate about something (no matter what), then they have experienced depth in that topic. I want that depth; it is the underlying treasure of this world. That's why I will steer the conversation in that direction. If somebody I talk to wants to have a shallow pretentious chat, we can safely depart after 3 minutes, him thinking: "ok, that's one of the weird ones, that doesn't believe in the value of a high society chat". I celebrate being different and open-minded and non-elitist (in the sense that I don't feel that I'm better than anybody else) and all my close friends do too.

You probably have a reason for liking those Japanese bands. They excite you somehow. Find out why. If you can articulate it, then people will be able to understand your passion.

Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by cryptozeus on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @07:27PM (#16972696)
or it could be that they are all busy and lonely too. Do they hang out without you ? As another person said, just find your tribe.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by sudouser on Wednesday May 02, 2018 @12:43AM (#16974112)
personal experience: moving towns I made friendship initially with a group, but didn’t fit, so I changed to a group of friends where I truly fitted
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by soulnothing on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @05:40PM (#16971964)
If you don't mind me asking what career did you switch too? I've long thought of leaving software.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by fogzen on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @06:01PM (#16972137)
I don’t have a career. I don’t want one anymore. I work for low wage at a sign shop part time, and do consulting part time. I have some software side projects but they don’t make much money. I’m saving all the money from consulting and odd jobs to put towards starting some sort of small business, but I don’t know what yet. I sometimes build bikes and sell them.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by baxtr on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @06:38PM (#16972390)
I applaud the change you’ve made in your life. I think it’s great. However, living like that is pretty difficult if you have to provide for a family.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by soulnothing on Wednesday May 02, 2018 @10:01AM (#16976921)
Thanks for the response. This is exactly where I want to go, I just need to clear existing debt first.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by static_noise on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @06:05PM (#16972170)
How do you finance your daily living?
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by hackits on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @06:23PM (#16972293)
Pretty easy to eat a healthy diet of legumes, chick-peas, vegetables, white meat on a low budget. Use a bike to get around.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by ahtu123 on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @06:46PM (#16972449)
I guess moving out of a tech city is the first step though. Rent is hard to afford.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by hackits on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @06:48PM (#16972464)
Hardest part is actually for most guys putting themselves as a the point of origin as the most important person.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by cryptozeus on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @07:25PM (#16972690)
Seems like this should be explored as a blog post by you....please write one
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by herbst on Wednesday May 02, 2018 @07:58AM (#16976079)
IMO this doesn't have to be controversial to each other. I am software dev as well, however I call friends or even just drive by, I shop most things in actual stores (except things I have to import because my market is rather small and limited), I never gamed, never owned a TV (I do enjoy some series tho), ride my bike everywhere and love to meet people on the way. Hence I even visit (or call if anywhere else) my bank once a month instead of online banking.

I love creating Technologie that contributes to my way of life instead of making me more isolated.

Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by bpiche on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @07:08PM (#16972585)
my man ivan illich strongly agreed with you in his 'disabling professions', which you may enjoy. he generally argued that many of our needs are manufactured by various institutionalized forms of care (healthcare, education, transportation) which respectively reduce our abilities to care for, educate, and move ourselves around.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by taurath on Wednesday May 02, 2018 @02:20AM (#16974550)
Alternately, if the workplace is a caring one and not sociopathic, it could encourage people to socialize more. I’d bet people socialize a lot more in Europe for example, where there’s a more even contract between worker and business.. but hey may be wrong.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by marsrover on Wednesday May 02, 2018 @09:48AM (#16976802)
I took a sabbatical from tech (didn't touch a computer, worked as a chef) for several years for this very reason. If I had never taken it I wouldn't have met my wife.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by syndacks on Wednesday May 02, 2018 @06:06PM (#16981566)
Thanks for sharing this. You're a voice for a lot of people, especially on HN, who feel like they need to be up with the latest trends on tech to be happy or cool or relevant. But when you zoom out and think about the fact that most people on this site, and really a lot of people in society in general, sedentarily stare at a glowing rectangle for 8+ hours a day, you wonder why there aren't more comments like yours.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by mancerayder on Wednesday May 02, 2018 @05:09PM (#16981180)
I've worked in tech for 15+ years and met almost all my friends through it. What about tech did you find to be so harmful socially?
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by sizzle on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @05:41PM (#16971975)
How do you pay the bills comfortably and do you support a family?
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by fogzen on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @05:56PM (#16972097)
I have as few bills as possible. Just rent, phone, gas, and health insurance. No Netflix or other entertainment subscriptions, no amazon prime, no mortgage etc. I don’t have the latest phone or clothing, I don’t buy things I don’t absolutely need. Most of my money goes to rent and food and my health insurance.

No I don’t support a family. But keep in mind my parents raised me waiting on tables.

Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by dclowd9901 on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @06:40PM (#16972405)
Keep in mind your parents _could_ support you on waiting tables. That is no longer as viable.

I'm sorry, but your whole experience reeks of the annoying kind of self-righteousness that only people with no real obligations have.

Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by vecinu on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @07:53PM (#16972854)
That's not right, he has the obligation to care for himself, as every person on this planet does.

Correct me if I'm wrong but you choose to have children, a partner and other "obligations", so how is he the self-righteous one?

Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by chillwaves on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @06:54PM (#16972498)
> with no real obligations have.

Because he doesn't have kids?

It is an obligation to take care of oneself, to be self sufficient. What you say is slandering this guy's work.

he's not living at home with his parents paying his rent, he's not living on welfare. He's making his way in the world on his own. "No real obligations"?

Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by lamarpye on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @06:54PM (#16972497)
I don't see it that way, he found a path that works for him. The path might not be right for everyone, but there might be pieces that everyone could use.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by wcarron on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @11:47PM (#16973886)
As I often see here, you're missing the spirit of the post. (S)He's not saying that having less or being poor is intrinsically a happier existence. They are referring to a freedom from consumerism and the "need" to have things or chase the newest fad.

I struggle too, with resisting consumerist urges; which have been ingrained in me since birth. But really, they are right. Does purchasing Tom Ford apparel make you happy? It's fine if it does, but what happens if you don't? Nothing at all, actually.

We don't need all the things we're so constantly sold, and recognizing that lifts a weight (or anxiety, if you wanna call it that) from the shoulders. There's freedom in not needing things.

Go outside. It's free and fun.

Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by hiram112 on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @07:58PM (#16972883)
I would say the lack of family for many (men, especially) in their late 20's and beyond is another issue that the media will be slow to acknowledge.

Let's face it - 33% of males aren't going to have families of their own, and probably 66% or so (very rough figures) will end up spending the majority of their lives without their families (due to ez-divorce and custody laws favoring mothers).

Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by creep on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @08:46PM (#16973162)
Families are more important than we think today. Everyone now is an Ultra Important Individual. And that's great, but you need a home base from which to operate as an individual, and you need secure relationships. Don't have kids if you don't want kids, but find a partner and a dog, and take your partnerships seriously. Go into your serious relationships with the for-life mindset.

The next step in our little social activism pendulum is looking at custody laws for sure. Men are very much at risk here on the topic of loneliness especially.

Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by 0x4f3759df on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @10:55PM (#16973690)
Life in your 20s can be more about your friends and going out, but life after 40 is really about family (if you're fortunate enough to have one of your own)... If your numbers are right it is a total catastrophe.
Re:Americans Are a Lonely Lot, and Young People Bear the Hea... by TaylorSwift on Tuesday May 01, 2018 @06:16PM (#16972232)
I agree. Less is more. The less you have, the more happier you are -- you spend time more on what counts.