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Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by busterarm on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:36PM (#16760348)
This sounds great except consider me very skeptical about the yellow status.

If the server decides that I don't look right, they can choose not to serve me and I have to wait for a manager to serve me?

You know that Denny's lost a $54 million lawsuit over this practice, right? Racial profiling in the hospitality biz is very real.

Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by tptacek on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:49PM (#16760438)
Denny's lost a $54MM lawsuit over, among other things, refusing to seat black people, including a collection of black Secret Service agents, or deliberately forcing black people to wait longer to get a table, or, in some cases, requiring black people to pay more for their food.

So, no, even if we (weirdly) stipulate the idea that creepers are a protected class, the Denny's situation is not comparable to what's happening here.

Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by busterarm on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:51PM (#16760445)
I'm not at all stipulating that creepers are a protected class, I'm saying that the tipped food service industry has a racism problem and this is a really easily gamed system that people will think they can exploit to make more money than their coworkers.
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by pnutjam on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:05PM (#16760538)
Your sort of concern will be easily handled on a one off basis. It's pretty easy to notice.
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by busterarm on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:43PM (#16760759)
https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/43dybb/the-shitty-reality...

"In 2015, the Washington Post examined tipping culture in the US restaurant industry. Looking at a survey of 1,000 servers, 34 percent responded that they believed black diners to be "very bad" tippers, in comparison to white diners who 98 percent believed to be "average" or "above average" tippers."

"In the first study where white servers believed black diners were "very bad" tippers, over half of those who responded said they "don't always give their best effort when waiting on black customers.""

Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by busterarm on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:06PM (#16760544)
...and yet racism among servers is still a problem.

I absolutely loved your optimism and single-step, hand-wavey-approach to solving racism, though.

"In a world where nobody's racist, nobody will be racist! It's perfect!"

Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by pnutjam on Thursday April 05, 2018 @11:41AM (#16765888)
My point was that a server who constantly drops black diners on the manager is going to get noticed by the manager. He should do his job and manage things.
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by ahhhhyesyes on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:02PM (#16760517)
victimology and the oppression hierarchy make for incredibly amusing logical inconsistencies. the amusement is compounded when it’s aimed at ensuring people are never even remotely uncomfortable
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by joe_the_user on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:46PM (#16760425)
Well, the thing about both yellow and orange, is that there is no actual retaliation against the customer. The manager takes over table service and that's the end. That can happen to a customer if their server's shift is ending or for any number reasons. Having a "dealing with this" level below retaliation seems like the key to this process.

And it's notable that approach runs counter to all of the retaliation-based approaches that this society currently seems to enjoy.

Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by rdtsc on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:52PM (#16760457)
> Well, the thing about both yellow and orange, is that there is no actual retaliation against the customer.

Yeah I like that part. Maybe the customer is having a bad hair day, maybe they are autistic or homeless. There is no need to kick them out or confront them if they haven't said or done anything bad. Just have a way to quickly pass the handling to someone else and move on.

Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by busterarm on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:49PM (#16760437)
Normal division of labor means you're going to get slower service from a manager than from a server. It's a simple math problem.
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by tedunangst on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @10:26PM (#16761288)
Most of the restaurants around here the manager is literally just standing there watching to see what's happening. If they were to wait my table, I'd expect to get awesome service.
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by Noos on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @11:22PM (#16761519)
Do you not think people won't figure this out, when they see the manager always serve them in a restaurant, but everyone else gets a normal waitress? When I ask that waitress for the check, and the manager comes instead after fifteen minutes, because he had to be taken from the back room and interrupted from balancing the days take, I won't know?
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by kelnos on Thursday April 05, 2018 @03:55PM (#16768330)
How is this a problem? If you actually have done something wrong, then realizing what's happening just means you're put on notice and you might want to take a hard look at your behavior. If you haven't done anything wrong and the server is abusing the system, then you either won't care, or you might choose to patronize the establishment less, either of which is fine.
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by rifung on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:43PM (#16760405)
I assume by not looking right you mean the act of looking and not looking like your appearance? I believe that's the article was referring to the former and not the latter.

Assuming you did mean the former, I find it fascinating that your comment went from not looking right to racial profiling which seem completely unrelated.

What made you think of that?

Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by busterarm on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:44PM (#16760413)
A lifetime of being treated poorly by strangers because of my physical attributes.

The point is, if you interpret the policy properly, it's plainly obvious that a server can label someone a yellow (for any reason) and choose not to serve them.

Lots of servers have preconceived notions about who is going to tip well.

Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by tptacek on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:09PM (#16760564)
The restaurant doesn't stop serving the "yellow" customers; those customers are served by senior staff. Nothing prevents junior staff from providing worse service to minorities as it stands, so using a system in which your actions are documented and engage management to discriminate seems like an awfully dumb way to accomplish a racist goal.
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by busterarm on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:14PM (#16760590)
Unless your management is also racist, agrees to serve them but "when they get around to it". As in "I'm doing payroll right now, I'm busy." (aside: Ask any low-wage employee across any industry whether they get adequate support from their managers and the answer is almost surely "no". That certainly was my experience in nearly a decade of retail.)

That's sort of how these systems perpetuate isn't it?

Maybe if you just had to just stfu and deal with serving everyone, you get the opportunity to realize that X person isn't bad and actually does tip.

Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by kelnos on Thursday April 05, 2018 @04:36PM (#16768592)
You're no worse off with the manager-takes-over scheme, though. Without this scheme, you just end up with a shitty racist server that gives you shitty service. With the manager taking over when the shitty racist server abuses the system to foist off customers they're bigoted against, either you end up with a shitty racist manager (so you have the same situation), or a good manager that actually gives you good service. And the good manager also has the opportunity to see that you're a good customer and draw the conclusion that the server that dumped you did so for shitty, racist reasons.

> Maybe if you just had to just stfu and deal with serving everyone, you get the opportunity to realize that X person isn't bad and actually does tip.

That's the current situation though, right? Seems like it's not working.

Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by tedunangst on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @10:58PM (#16761415)
The guy feeling up the waitress probably tips pretty well, too.
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by busterarm on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:24PM (#16760642)
Sorry for the double reply but I wanted to separate this from my other comment...

For someone in the industry that you're/we're in, I'm a little bit surprised by your level of optimism; in this case, that a loosely-defined social system works as intended when almost always strictly defined encoded systems (software, hardware, legal, etc) do not. Either the intended system is not accurately defined or it didn't expect everything.

Almost all of my peers/coworkers in infosec are extraordinarily pessimistic, see the flaws first, and from very far away.

Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by sidlls on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:13PM (#16760588)
Racism doesn't require intent. It can manifest completely unintentionally by subconscious acts, especially when subtle racism is so prevalent and reinforces negative stereotypes.
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by fouc on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:59PM (#16760498)
Probably a good reason to ban tipping. There was a restaurant in new york that did that experiment, interestingly they reported some male customers getting angry that they couldn't show off via tipping.
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by busterarm on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:03PM (#16760525)
100%. That would definitely solve that problem while introducing another.

The entire restaurant business is propped up by investor money and artificially low wages. We have a large multiple more restaurants than we actually need because it serves Wall St. and the government ("job creation").

Such a change could put 80% of the industry out of business in maybe a year.

Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by pkaye on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:42PM (#16760757)
Just raise the food prices by 15-20% to account for loss due to tips.
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by kelnos on Thursday April 05, 2018 @04:38PM (#16768605)
It's more than that. It has to be 25%-30% to also cover all the extra payroll tax that the restaurant now has to pay. In the end you lose customers to restaurants that aren't doing this. And if all restaurants do this, you just end up with people eating out less to the point where overall you're losing money.
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by busterarm on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:48PM (#16760791)
The result of this is that people eat out less.

And worse, the places where people have smaller dine-out budgets are also where all of the low-wage chain restaurants are clustered. All of those youth and unskilled labor jobs in the suburbs are pretty much in restaurants.

It's inexcusable that people in restaurants are being exploited for their labor, but I think we absolutely have to figure out an alternative before putting them out of work.

Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by pkaye on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:55PM (#16760825)
The customer ends up paying the same amount just the tips are added into the prices.
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by busterarm on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @09:19PM (#16760931)
More. The restaurant can't just raise prices 15-20%, they have to raise them more. Tipped workers make their money working hours when it's busy, but restaurants have to be open and have staff during hours that are not.

If you give wait staff a normal wage, restaurants have to have more workers on hand when it's less busy and there are more other labor laws regarding wage and hour minimums that they'll lose exemptions from.

Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by baumandm on Thursday April 05, 2018 @02:59AM (#16762501)
How about commission-based pay, where wait staff get a base wage plus a per-table commission. So basically just like tipping, but without the customer discretion part of it.
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by sidlls on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:55PM (#16760473)
It's pretty trivial to get "(perhaps unintentional) racist says black dude doesn't look right" out of this, given how prevalent racism is in our society, and how the default reaction to non-whites is generally more negative in any given context.
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by ThrustVectoring on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:56PM (#16760481)
Presumably a manager would notice a server constantly asking them to take over a certain class of tables and fix the problem.
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by busterarm on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @08:00PM (#16760504)
Given the games I've seen servers and hosts/hostesses play around who gets to seat who and where, it's much more complex than that.
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:40PM (#16760384)
> You know that Denny's lost a $54 million lawsuit over this practice, right?

Over having the manager serve people? Do you have some reference that explains what you're referring to?

In practice, if the manager sees that server X often/always calls yellow on group Y, it becomes the manager's job to educate, train, or fire server X.

Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by busterarm on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:41PM (#16760391)
Denny's lost a $54 million lawsuit for serving people slower for being black.

The problems with the described practice are pretty apparent if you've ever a) worked in tipped food service or b) been black.

Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by jmspring on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:47PM (#16760429)
Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:45PM (#16760414)
Once again, do you have a reference to this?

And that wouldn't have to be a consequence of this policy. It would, however, require the manager to be as prompt as the server. This should be possible to do if they're paying attention to the issue, because the manager should be handling far fewer tables than a server.

Re:I’m a female chef. Here’s how my restaurant dealt with ha... by 48snickers on Wednesday April 04, 2018 @07:56PM (#16760477)
https://www.nytimes.com/1994/05/25/us/denny-s-restaurants-to...

http://articles.latimes.com/1994-05-25/news/mn-62027_1_civil...

Alas, the actual examples aren't fully enumerated (to the tune of some 4,500 complaints). The syntax of "slow service" in the cited examples is in seating customers.