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Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by tyler_larson on Saturday March 03, 2018 @05:28PM (#16512042)
The problem here isn't so much that Amazon is going to hurt Google. Google will survive. But we only hear about this story because Google is who Amazon is attacking (today).

The bigger problem is that Amazon has set themselves up as the global arbiter of commerce, acting as a relatively neutral marketplace matching buyers to sellers worldwide, replacing many or most of the smaller commerce hubs and marketplaces that used to exist.

But once in that position, they exercise control over which products can be sold with the explicit intention of destroying competitors, replacing what would otherwise be a consumer favorite with their own inferior (according to market preference) alternate.

Everyone talks about monopolists and moral hazard and market manipulation, but Amazon seems to be the only modern company with the unique combination of dominance, confidence, and poor executive judgment to actually make it a consistent and overt company policy.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by philipodonnell on Sunday March 04, 2018 @09:45AM (#16514852)
If you saw the article yesterday about counterfit Nests still for sale and Amazon taking no action, I think it's actually worse than that.

Banning competition you don't like is monoploistic for sure, but intentionally leaving counterfitters versions up and promoting them to searchers for those products so it damages your competitors brand is just straight up evil.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by philipodonnell on Sunday March 04, 2018 @11:56AM (#16515352)
Sorry, I got this mixed up with the counterfeit chromecast devices that Amazon is ignoring. Its hard to keep track of all the anti-competitive stuff Amazon is doing lately. ;-)
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by briga on Sunday March 04, 2018 @11:40AM (#16515294)
Is it intentional though? Like the old proverb goes--never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by gordon_freeman on Saturday March 03, 2018 @05:41PM (#16512108)
This is so true! And now as they have bought Whole Foods, they can do the same thing with grocery products by having options such as WF branded ones over the competitors (stocking 365 branded Sugar and dropping Safway Signature branded Sugar) through their Amazon Fresh or Prime NOW service.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by justonepost on Saturday March 03, 2018 @09:31PM (#16512945)
People like variety in food. You don’t usually see network effects (ie, recipe only works if you use ingredients from same supplier)

Home automation though is a great network effects play which is why amazon is doing this.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by bduerst on Sunday March 04, 2018 @12:02AM (#16513340)
If home automation is their goal, then why doesn't Amazon open an API for making automated purchases? They can sell more through their marketplace this way.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by mcherm on Sunday March 04, 2018 @12:27AM (#16513407)
Because automating homes is not their goal; profiting when others automate their homes is their goal. They appear t believe that they will make significantly more profit by selling home automation tools and the things that attach to them than by carrying some other company's home automation tools in their catalog in addition to their own.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by justonepost on Sunday March 04, 2018 @05:15PM (#16517103)
Having interviewed with Alexa I can assure you home automation is there #1 goal.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by justonepost on Sunday March 04, 2018 @05:18PM (#16517113)
Fraud concerns most likely. They have an api they support for hooking up to Alexa.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by stickfigure on Sunday March 04, 2018 @02:34AM (#16513678)
Why do you assume they aren't working on it?

Big companies move slowly. I doubt Amazon could roll something like this out without 5+ years of development - possibly longer depending on how many times the department gets reorg'd.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by adrianN on Sunday March 04, 2018 @02:25AM (#16513658)
Because they want people to buy Alexa?
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by ChrisAntaki on Sunday March 04, 2018 @12:51AM (#16513477)
Whole Foods was already abusing their position by setting strict quality standards for foods they carried, and reducing the requirements for their own 365 brand.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by nextstepguy on Saturday March 03, 2018 @11:24PM (#16513254)
i've already seen that. Try buying some products that are not 365 (the WF private label.) The march has already started and is accelerating. Consumers beware1
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by ethana on Saturday March 03, 2018 @05:55PM (#16512192)
Google is no angel themselves. What they did to Windows Phone is no different than Amazon's behavior. I'd imagine Windows Phone might as well died even if there were Google apps on it. But by actively preventing third-parties from porting their services to WP, Google intentionally tried to kill it. Now they now practically own the global market of smartphones. Not saying any of this is right, but I've less empathy for them.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by notatoad on Saturday March 03, 2018 @08:37PM (#16512794)
>But by actively preventing third-parties from porting their services to WP

[citation needed]

The only history i'm aware of with google blocking app development on windows phone is when they sent C&Ds to people developing apps that stripped all the ads off youtube and played background audio. They also consistently take down and block android apps that violate the TOS in this way, and i don't see anybody saying that google is trying to kill android.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by danieldk on Sunday March 04, 2018 @02:28AM (#16513668)
Google blocked the web version of Google Maps in Internet Explorer for Windows Phone:

https://mashable.com/2013/01/05/google-maps-windows-phone/#g...

Maps worked fine with exactly the same Trident engine on the desktop. Moreover, if you change the user agent string, maps also worked fine with Windows Phone.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by thaumasiotes on Sunday March 04, 2018 @03:57AM (#16513856)
That seems like a pretty simple fix for Microsoft to make on behalf of every Windows Phone user... Google can't compel MS to identify its phones for Google's benefit.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by arcticfox on Sunday March 04, 2018 @08:08AM (#16514571)
Google would just change the user-agent they were blocking to whatever Microsoft changed it to. It was intentional.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by thaumasiotes on Sunday March 04, 2018 @03:20PM (#16516456)
Again, there's no rule that says devices must have unique user-agents. Once you've established that Google wants to block Windows Phone from using maps, you can send the user-agent string of something they don't want to block.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by zeusk on Saturday March 03, 2018 @11:11PM (#16513221)
Hahaha

https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4624706/google-blocks-win...

https://www.theverge.com/2013/8/15/4625502/microsoft-respond...

Google pulls this same bs with consoles as well, both PS4 and Xbox One (S/X) have a shitty HTML5 app that just doesn't fit well with rest of the system.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by ChrisAntaki on Sunday March 04, 2018 @12:59AM (#16513497)
Really? I've used the ps4 YouTube app a bunch to watch videos, and movies purchased from the play store. My phone can cast to it as well. Seems to work as well as the Netflix app. I've had more issues with the ps4 store app honestly.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by snuxoll on Sunday March 04, 2018 @02:59AM (#16513718)
So does Apple TV now after the most recent update, and it’s absoultely terrible.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by snuxoll on Saturday March 03, 2018 @11:00PM (#16513188)
Nobody stripped ads offf YouTube videos - Google doesn’t provide an API you can use to display them in the first place and they had no desire to make a native application themselves to remove the necessity.

The background audio stuff, sure - that happened.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by hota_mazi on Sunday March 04, 2018 @01:04AM (#16513507)
If you do a Google search for "Alexa" or "dot echo", the first hits will be Amazon's products.

As long as this is true, Google is acting a lot more objectively than Amazon and its anti-competitive behavior.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by pjc50 on Saturday March 03, 2018 @07:32PM (#16512592)
Shady anti-portability tactics against Microsoft is just karma.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by pkaye on Saturday March 03, 2018 @06:14PM (#16512275)
I'm sure Microsoft could have worked out a deal with Google. For example there were some patents for filesystems that Microsoft was enforcing for a while on Android phones.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by jd20 on Saturday March 03, 2018 @07:26PM (#16512569)
Not to mention when Google blocked YouTube from Echo Show devices. This almost seems like retaliation.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by mooman219 on Saturday March 03, 2018 @07:37PM (#16512615)
The block was because Echo Show devices don't support various features like ads. Also at the time, the YouTube block could be seen as retaliation for Amazon de-listing ChromeCast.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by Buge on Sunday March 04, 2018 @03:30AM (#16513787)
That was the first block. Then Amazon re-implemented it to just be a browser that views youtube.com so ads show just as on the normal website, and Google blocked their user agent.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by sincerely on Saturday March 03, 2018 @11:47PM (#16513311)
"features"
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by oh_sigh on Saturday March 03, 2018 @11:55PM (#16513325)
Ads are a feature which allow the various companies involved to provide content for free to the consumer.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by cloudwalking on Sunday March 04, 2018 @12:18AM (#16513382)
This should not be downvoted. YouTube does not have a viable competitor because serving video is incredibly expensive.

Edit: This is being downvoted as well. Downvoted is for off-topic or inflammatory comments, not for comments you disagree with. If you disagree, leave a comment and explain why!

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by leoedin on Sunday March 04, 2018 @08:49AM (#16514718)
Is that true? What about Vimeo, Dailymotion, and the countless streaming sites which pop up to serve pirated content?

I don't doubt serving video to an audience as large as YouTube's is very expensive, but then with an audience as large as YouTube's there's a lot of money to be made. Bandwidth cost scales with views.

Surely YouTube's advantage is a network effect. They make it easy and quick to upload videos which then have the potential to be viewed millions or billions of times. Plenty of people use Vimeo, but there's not the same potential for virality.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by Buge on Sunday March 04, 2018 @03:18AM (#16513756)
>Please don't comment about the voting on comments. It never does any good, and it makes boring reading.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

If you want to agree with a downvoted comment, simply say you agree and give some reasons why. Don't mention the downvotes.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by ma2rten on Sunday March 04, 2018 @01:24AM (#16513553)
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by Buge on Sunday March 04, 2018 @03:31AM (#16513790)
Google blocked Echo from viewing Youtube in retaliation for Amazon not listing Chromecast. If Amazon agreed to list Chromecast, all the blocks could be eliminated and the war could end.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by yellowapple on Saturday March 03, 2018 @07:37PM (#16512613)
Or when Google blocked YouTube from Fire TV devices, after which Amazon stopped selling Chromecasts. Or maybe it was the other way around.

This is - in other words - not the first time Amazon and Google got in a spat like this, and probably ain't the last.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by notatoad on Saturday March 03, 2018 @08:40PM (#16512807)
that was the other way around.

and amazon's rationale for not selling chromecasts was because the chromecast didn't support amazon prime video. which was, of course, a decision that amazon had made.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by scarface74 on Sunday March 04, 2018 @05:37PM (#16517219)
It wasn't Google that didn't support Amazon Prime Video, Amazon didn't add support. It was the same reason the Amazon gave for not selling the Apple TV 3rd and 4th generations. Apple worked with dozens of other providers to add apps to the 3rd gen ATV and a time could write an app for the 4th gen TV.

The proof is that there is now an Amazon Video app for the 3rd and 4th gen ATV. It was a surprise to almost everyone that Amazon/Apple ported Amazon Video to the 3rd Gen ATV after it had been discontinued for over a year.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by karavelov on Sunday March 04, 2018 @12:11AM (#16513364)
I don't think it's Amazon decision to not allow Prime video on the google chromecast devices - it's available of consoles, Roku and other 3rd party devices.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by vanviegen on Sunday March 04, 2018 @02:04AM (#16513614)
Sure it is. Chromecast offers an API everybody can just use, without asking Google for permission.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by kuschku on Sunday March 04, 2018 @02:07AM (#16513624)
Nope.

Chromecast only offers an API if you already have a license to the Google Play Services, which does require Google’s permission.

And this license only allows sending Chromecast streams – it does not allow the FireTV to receive any.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by Buge on Sunday March 04, 2018 @03:25AM (#16513774)
I don't understand. karavelov said that Amazon Prime Video doesn't work with Chromecast. Are you saying that https://developers.google.com/cast/ is insufficient to allow Prime Video to work with Chromecast?

karavelov was not asking about FireTV receiving Chromecast. Does Roku receive Chromecast streams? If so, what's stopping FireTV, if not then it's not really relevant to this "targeted discrimination" discussion.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by kuschku on Sunday March 04, 2018 @03:50AM (#16513841)
> Are you saying that https://developers.google.com/cast/ is insufficient to allow Prime Video to work with Chromecast?

Correct. That SDK requires proprietary Google Play Services to be present on a device to allow Chromecast to work.

As the same Prime Video app has to work on Kindle devices, LineageOS/CopperheadOS/other third party ROMs, and on Google Play Android devices, it can’t require Google Play Services.

Regarding Roku:

Roku can not receive Chromecast streams, instead Roku, Twitch and several other companies have cooperated to work on a protocol competing with Chromecast, and Roku can receive those (as can a few of Amazon’s devices, and Amazon’s apps can send those streams as well).

You can learn more here: https://www.howtogeek.com/214943/how-to-use-your-roku-like-a...

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by dragonwriter on Sunday March 04, 2018 @04:13AM (#16513896)
> As the same Prime Video app has to work on Kindle devices, LineageOS/CopperheadOS/other third party ROMs, and on Google Play Android devices, it can’t require Google Play Services.

It can have additional functionality that only works when Google Play Services is available. Plenty of media apps run on Kindle devices as well as branded Android, and support Chromecast on Android but not Kindle.

Now, Amazon probably doesn't want to make an app that has features that work on branded Android but not Kindle, but that is a choice.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by kuschku on Sunday March 04, 2018 @04:42AM (#16513975)
That's correct, but looking at how much money Amazon has spent trying to replicate Google's closed APIs on their Android version, I don't think it's unreasonable for them to expect an open protocol at least this time.

Amazon spent billions trying to work around Google's anticompetitive bullshit (something the open source community had to do as well with microG), and I think at least at some point Google should be held responsible for their proprietary bullshit.

Had Google actually open sourced Chromecast, on all sides, you'd have seen much higher adoption.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by muro on Monday March 05, 2018 @07:47AM (#16520645)
Regarding the other protocol - support by Amazon + twitch is still just one company :) Will read up on rest, thanks.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by scarface74 on Sunday March 04, 2018 @05:41PM (#16517243)
Chromecast support is available for a few non Google iOS apps. But I guess the blame is on Google for not opening up the protocol for nonstandard Android derived Os's.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by Slansitartop on Sunday March 04, 2018 @11:44AM (#16515315)
> Google is no angel themselves. What they did to Windows Phone is no different than Amazon's behavior.

That's why breakups or heavy regulation needs to seriously considered for these companies. They have too much market power and have shown a proclivity towards abusing it in anti-competitive ways. The market has developed, and I don't think leaving it unregulated is working anymore.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by tyler_larson on Saturday March 03, 2018 @06:28PM (#16512340)
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by Spooky23 on Saturday March 03, 2018 @11:11PM (#16513218)
We live in an era where people will assert that Standard Oil wasn't a monopoly. If a corporate action doesnt directly raise consumer prices, under modern legal thinking it isn't a monopoly.

The most ironic or telling thing about Amazon is that Walmart has now become the punchy underdog in comparison.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by qmarchi on Sunday March 04, 2018 @01:40PM (#16515858)
And they sell Nest electronics!

But on a more realistic note, Walmart has been pushing to be more innovative in the e-commerce ecosystem, purchasing various companies and opening new storefronts (like Allswell) to be more competitive.

There's also the advantage that they have in physical location.

Anyways, Disclaimer, I work for Walmart but my views and comments are my own.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by TimJYoung on Sunday March 04, 2018 @02:35PM (#16516157)
Yes, but the problem is that Walmart (and others, like Best Buy) proceeded to become also-rans by also opening up their ecommerce platforms to 3rd party sellers. This rush to make everything like Amazon is destructive to the retail chain's brand itself by making it harder for consumers to find the authentic products that they are looking for, with the implicit/explicit guarantees about product quality, low-cost shipping, and return processing. When I go to walmart.com or bestbuy.com, I want to purchase something from Walmart and Best Buy, not some 3rd party with whom I have no prior relationship. It's a total race to the bottom in the retail space right now.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by godzillabrennus on Saturday March 03, 2018 @05:51PM (#16512174)
I guess since Amazon can use it's monopoly position to hurt Google it would be fair for Google to punish Amazon by restricting who can find products through their search engine?

Maybe a little trade war between the giants would help them realize this is stupid.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by doorbumper on Saturday March 03, 2018 @06:57PM (#16512455)
It's more troublesome for Google to retaliate. Google is already under scrutiny for unfair search results from regulatory agencies all over the globe.

Amazon has gone mostly unnoticed, and exerts their power without fear of reprisal.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by drdrey on Saturday March 03, 2018 @06:45PM (#16512406)
if only there was some sort of federal trade agency that could fine companies for abusing their monopoly positions
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by noarchy on Sunday March 04, 2018 @12:21AM (#16513389)
If only there was a monopoly. It isn't as if you suddenly can't get these device any longer.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by mattnewton on Sunday March 04, 2018 @12:28AM (#16513408)
Monopoly power can be exerted at a whole lot less than 100% of the market.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by Buge on Sunday March 04, 2018 @03:14AM (#16513744)
Google also doesn't have the only place you can get search results (eg Bing). But that didn't stop Europe from handing out a $2.8 billion fine.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by BonoboBoner on Sunday March 04, 2018 @05:03AM (#16514028)
35% of ecommerce customer journeys already start on amazon. It is not like they totally depend on SERP rankings.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by cornholio on Sunday March 04, 2018 @08:09AM (#16514575)
Let's see how that plays out when Chrome gives out a blank page for every Amazon domain ! <insert Brin & Page evil laugh here />
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by gaius on Sunday March 04, 2018 @04:16AM (#16513904)
I guess since Amazon can use it's monopoly position to hurt Google it would be fair for Google to punish Amazon by restricting who can find products through their search engine?

All that will do is push people to search Amazon first cutting Google out of the loop altogether.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by stordoff on Sunday March 04, 2018 @08:14AM (#16514588)
I wonder if it hurts Amazon in the long term. One of the reasons for defaulting to Amazon is that they carry pretty much everything. The more items it doesn't stock, the more I will shop around and start doing that more generally.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by adventured on Sunday March 04, 2018 @05:16AM (#16514078)
> The bigger problem is that Amazon has set themselves up as the global arbiter of commerce

Amazon may yet become that. They are not that yet. Walmart has an infamous reputation for being brutal with suppliers. That reputation is far beyond anything Amazon has yet become known for. Walmart also completely dictates who has access to their vast retail system, which is still roughly three times the size of Amazon. Simply put, Walmart's system is radically more restrictive in terms of providing selling access, than Amazon - and it's three times larger.

Half of Amazon's retail sales aren't even from Amazon, they're from independent sellers, and that percentage has been perpetually increasing. For Walmart, it's almost entirely them controlling the sales.

It has merely become popular lately to point the fear cannons at Amazon. It's a cultural mania. Last week it was Walmart everyone was terrified of. In the late 1990s, every headline was breathlessly touting how Walmart was going to take over all of retail and put everyone else out of business.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by philipodonnell on Sunday March 04, 2018 @09:38AM (#16514829)
Straw man alert! Walmart introducing own-brand competition into it's marketplace and competing in price there. Amazon is introducing own-brand products into thier marketplace and forbidding specific competitors while leaving counterfitters of those same competitors. There's an enormous difference there.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by davrosthedalek on Sunday March 04, 2018 @07:44AM (#16514509)
Honest question: Is Amazon really that unique as a marketplace? How does the world wide volume of ebay compare to Amazon?

Do they have any traction in the Chinese market? I could easily see that one of the Chinese market places could make a push for the world market and be a serious contender.

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by stordoff on Sunday March 04, 2018 @08:11AM (#16514585)
Is eBay the right comparison? I treat them as different services - Amazon: primarily new products, fixed price, and essentially dealing with one seller (if there's an issue with a Marketplace item, Amazon CS will address it); eBay: mix of new/used products, mix of fixed prices and auctions, primarily dealing with individual sellers.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by davrosthedalek on Sunday March 04, 2018 @11:18AM (#16515213)
I think ebay changed a lot. Every time I search something there it's like 90% new stuff from china. On the other hand, amazon has used stuff too. I would really like to see a break down what fraction of the products on ebay are new vs. old, and how much is sold for a fixed price vs. auction.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by sercand on Sunday March 04, 2018 @08:06AM (#16514566)
I also don't think Amazon that unique as a global marketplace. For me, I use AliExpress more than Amazon and both of them don't operate in my country.
Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by Izkata on Sunday March 04, 2018 @01:05PM (#16515661)
> I could easily see that one of the Chinese market places could make a push for the world market and be a serious contender.

Isn't Alibaba trying to do that? (I don't know much about it, but do hear its name every once in a while)

Re:Amazon will stop selling Nest smart home devices by ender89 on Monday March 05, 2018 @11:28AM (#16522114)
If amazon wants to get into the hardware game, they need to treat competitive hardware fairly or be hit with an anti-competitive lawsuit. There's no two ways about it.