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Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by electricslpnsld on Monday January 22, 2018 @07:22PM (#16209591)
You don't even have to go to Montana. Some of my neighbors in Oakland have been beefing with a local restaurant/nightclub that keeps blocking off access to public waterfront and sends beefy rent-a-cops to intimidate people in the public space.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by gamblor956 on Monday January 22, 2018 @07:45PM (#16209743)
Please name the restaurant. I have some connections with Oakland City Council and they can take a look into this.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by electricslpnsld on Monday January 22, 2018 @09:23PM (#16210396)
Eve's Waterfront. Neighbors have complained that they've gone as far as blocking off the San Francisco Bay Trail during bigger events at night.

Edit: Interesting, I dug up some zoning documents from the restaurant, and the Bay Conservation and Development Commission specifically called out the actions they are doing now (blocking the trail, blocking public access decks) as violations on page 4.

[1] http://www2.oaklandnet.com/oakca1/groups/ceda/documents/agen...

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by nielsbot on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @01:43AM (#16211532)
Man it would be a real shame if the Oakland Department of Public Health received a spate of complaints and found unsanitary conditions in the kitchen...
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by nielsbot on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @03:45PM (#16217506)
To clarify: Just for discussion purposes, not actually recommending this course of action.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by alex_hitchins on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @04:43AM (#16212206)
Would it also not be likely illegal (?) and as unethical as their action?
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by nielsbot on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @03:44PM (#16217497)
It was not a serious suggestion. Sorry HN. I suppose you could get in trouble for misusing city resources? Assuming that didn't actually have any violations.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by alex_hitchins on Wednesday January 24, 2018 @04:14AM (#16221394)
Thank you. While I believe their actions are disgraceful, it only adds fuel to their fire. My belief is we need to find a way to understand their concerns as best we can to show them their fears are un-grounded. Even if it was in jest which I fully appreciate, to the 'other side' it looks like what it was.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by gamblor956 on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @10:49AM (#16214463)
Call the cops the next time the restaurant tries to do this. The City manager has made them aware of the situation.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by f2n on Monday January 22, 2018 @10:05PM (#16210631)
Sounds like a great opportunity for some IRL trollin. Get it on film + name and shame the venue.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by lowpro on Monday January 22, 2018 @11:07PM (#16210909)
Or filing of civil/criminal charges if they've been warned before. If a private entity uses public space as a private space and prevents people from using it, that's illegal. You can do a lot more than name and shame.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by f2n on Monday January 22, 2018 @11:33PM (#16211020)
Definitely do that too
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by beedogs on Monday January 22, 2018 @09:33PM (#16210453)
Wow, so, when you're wealthy in America, you can literally murder someone in cold blood and only get probation for it?

"He shot and killed his neighbor, Timothy Newman, a man who had repeatedly challenged Campbell over his access-blocking proclivities. Campbell first claimed it was self-defense because Newman threatened him, but last year he finally pleaded guilty to negligent homicide. He’s now on probation, under a 20 years suspended prison sentence."

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by tyingq on Monday January 22, 2018 @09:44PM (#16210516)
Probation and the felony conviction also have little effect on someone that's independently wealthy. Where the same sentence on a middle class person would amount to financial ruin and unemployment.

It's very close to "completely getting away with it" for a rich person.

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by paulddraper on Monday January 22, 2018 @11:00PM (#16210878)
"Murder in cold blood" is not "negligent homicide".

It's premeditated homicide, i.e. first degree murder.

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by beedogs on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @01:20AM (#16211439)
Which makes me wonder why he was only charged with the latter; it's clear he committed the former.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by danielvf on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @05:35PM (#16218509)
The story here is not as simple as the article sounds.

The short version is Timothy Newman, the man who ended up dead, had armed himself with a gun, gone to Campbell's property with the intent of "adversely possessing" it, and draw his own gun on Campbell before Campbell fired at him.

Now this probably would not have made it to a trial, had not Campbell said to multiple people in the weeks before that he was going to “put Newman down” the next time they met.

There was a murder trial. The jury at this trial were instructed to decided between preplanned murder or innocent, did not believe either was correct, and returned no decision, resulting in a mistrial.

In lieu of a second trial, the 20-year suspended sentence was worked out between the prosecutors and the defendant's lawyers. As part of that Campbell paid Newman's wife one million dollars, and Campbell was never to go on the disputed property again (effectively giving up control of it).

The wild west is a crazy place, and justice is not always obvious.

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by nordsieck on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @03:12AM (#16211855)
"last year he finally pleaded guilty to negligent homicide."

It sounds like they had enough to charge him with more (how much more - who knows?).

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by namlem on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @01:20PM (#16215870)
He reached a pleasant deal with the prosecutor, he wasn't convicted by a jury.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by maxxxxx on Monday January 22, 2018 @09:49PM (#16210552)
That's a thing that bothers me generally in the West. In theory there is a lot of open country but in reality there are huge areas of grazing land fenced in with no way to get through which makes hiking very difficult. In Britain and Germany they usually don't completely block off their land but there are trails going through.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by trhway on Monday January 22, 2018 @10:44PM (#16210800)
and in Nordic countries there is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by DonaldFisk on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @08:55AM (#16213531)
and in Scotland there is http://www.outdooraccess-scotland.com
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by BrandoElFollito on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @03:47PM (#16217527)
In France, on the seashore, this is called "the path of the customs officers" [1]

[1] https://fr.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sentier_littoral

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by alkonaut on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @04:19AM (#16212117)
The contrast between the "stand your ground" and "no trespassing" of the US on one hand, and my "Freedom to roam" on the other, is pretty stark.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by mrarjen on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @02:46AM (#16211763)
I remember reading an article regarding this some time ago as well. It's mostly due to some new rule that when the public has been able to access private land for an amount of time unhindered the state can claim it their own. This has caused most to fence up in order to keep their land.

It's completely understandable, and this is mostly just Government trolling to land owners and causing inconvenient situations to the public wanting to access public grounds.

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by sideshowb on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @03:54AM (#16212020)
Who would write a law like that? In the uk long term use can establish a public right of way, but it still belongs to the landowner.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by Brockenstein on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @10:37AM (#16214338)
Because there's no perfect solution. If a piece of land has that much utility the government could take ownership (possible compensate the owner) and be responsible for maintaining and upkeep.

I mean your example in the UK, I can't believe every landowner that has a public right of way on their property is thrilled about it, especially in cases when they went to do something with their property and the government told them no because of the right of way. What good is owning that property one might wonder? If it's that important to everyone why not have the government purchase it and maintain it?

Every landowner might have a different opinion of what the best solution is. Good luck writing a law that appeases them all.

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by sideshowb on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @12:07PM (#16215111)
Here the local authority is responsible for upkeep (though in practice they may not have the budget). Landowner responsibility is pretty much just don't block it or put anything dangerous there.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by js2 on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @01:35AM (#16211506)
Bloomberg piece on same topic discussed here a few months ago:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15552574

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by stevenwoo on Monday January 22, 2018 @07:23PM (#16209600)
No mention of the local (to ycombinator) dispute with Vinod Khosla.

http://www.hmbreview.com/news/martin-s-beach-open-again/arti...

I'm surprised people never protested at his office on Sand Hill Road.

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by jacquesm on Monday January 22, 2018 @07:54PM (#16209804)
This sort of abuse of wealth is absolutely revolting, but how do you deal with parties that have amassed enough power to basically thumb their noses at the rest of the populace?

The casualness with which such a rich asshole deprives thousands of people of their rights without any fear for consequences is absolutely disgusting.

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by mschuster91 on Monday January 22, 2018 @08:20PM (#16209998)
> The casualness with which such a rich asshole deprives thousands of people of their rights without any fear for consequences is absolutely disgusting.

>> "He shot and killed his neighbor, Timothy Newman, a man who had repeatedly challenged Campbell over his access-blocking proclivities. Campbell first claimed it was self-defense because Newman threatened him, but last year he finally pleaded guilty to negligent homicide. He’s now on probation, under a 20 years suspended prison sentence."

Just WTF? This is absolutely insane. Other people end up in the chamber for such things (not that I like the death penalty or other excessive punishment, quite the opposite). The sign that if you're rich enough you can get off with murder is a threat to the core stability of society.

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by jacquesm on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @12:50AM (#16211326)
http://www.ktvh.com/2016/05/joseph-campbell-pleads-no-contes...

Plea deals when you're rich are a completely different thing than when you're poor apparently.

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by sjg007 on Monday January 22, 2018 @10:59PM (#16210875)
The average HN reader won't.. potentially needs the VC money. :) And less cynically, the surfrider foundation, the coastal commission and all of the environmental groups you can think of supported the lawsuits against him. So protesting off of Page Mill next to Stanford? Maybe worth it if the guy is there. It's not like there wasn't action nor visibility.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by dmckeon on Monday January 22, 2018 @09:48PM (#16210544)
When I first heard of the attempt to close Martin's Beach to the public, I was amazed, but it turns out there was a somewhat similar situation in 1891, about 20 miles south, at what is now Bean Hollow State Park: http://www.pescaderomemories.com/?p=335
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by mirimir on Monday January 22, 2018 @09:11PM (#16210313)
And Zuckerberg in Hawaii. Sure, I get that he values his privacy. But damn, the juxtaposition of privacy with Facebook's founder is highly ironic.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by nikmobi on Monday January 22, 2018 @11:51PM (#16211091)
Didn't that lawsuit end up being entirely misconstrued [1, 2]? IANAL, so I can't verify the legitimacy of the sources there but it made sense to me. I'm interested if someone more aware of the situation and laws has insight.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Documentaries/comments/7bwh7q/mark_... https://www.reddit.com/r/Documentaries/comments/7bwh7q/mark_...

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by craftyguy on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @12:11AM (#16211192)
I'm not so sure that random comments on reddit are a good source of credible information. I suppose the same could be said about random comments on HN without credible sources.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by mirimir on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @08:24PM (#16219558)
The matter was widely reported in January 2017.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by craftyguy on Wednesday January 24, 2018 @12:08AM (#16220487)
Still waiting for those credible sources!
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by mirimir on Wednesday January 24, 2018 @05:10PM (#16226831)
Here's a CNBC article about his reconsideration:

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/01/25/facebook-ceo-mark-zuckerberg...

And here's his statement about having done so:

https://web.archive.org/web/20170130025034/http://thegardeni...

OK?

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by mirimir on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @08:23PM (#16219554)
I gather that he dropped the lawsuits, after public outcry. But notwithstanding his change of heart, he did file them. And arguably, he only dropped them because of the bad PR.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by jessaustin on Monday January 22, 2018 @08:11PM (#16209925)
Who is Zinke? Is she someone like Madonna, whom we readers should know from her single name in its single mention in TFA? Try harder, editors!
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by dragonwriter on Monday January 22, 2018 @08:21PM (#16210002)
Outgoing Rep. Ryan Zinke (R-MT), who left the House to become Trump's Secretary of the Interior. Probably, an edit to the article removed an earlier reference to Zinke and didn't clean up the remaining reference to the style for a first rather than subsequent reference.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by jedberg on Monday January 22, 2018 @08:22PM (#16210015)
Montana's former Congressman. It said so... about four words later.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by jessaustin on Monday January 22, 2018 @08:33PM (#16210080)
Sole mention of "Zinke":

Still, Gianforte was elected months later in a special election to replace Zinke as Montana’s congressman.

Yes I know I could have just Googled it. I don't actually care who Zinke is, or what her or his first (last?) name might be. My comment was about journalistic standards. Sorry to confuse you.

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by jedberg on Monday January 22, 2018 @10:01PM (#16210610)
Yes I understand that your criticism was about journalistic standards.

My point was that they didn't violate any standards, by telling you who Zinke is right after mentioning his name.

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by jessaustin on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @01:36AM (#16211507)
Apparently they left something out? TIL he's Interior Secretary involved with several of the controversies discussed in TFA? b^)
[dead]
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by davidw on Monday January 22, 2018 @08:52PM (#16210192)
Not everyone on this site is from the US - quite a few people aren't, actually.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by s0rce on Monday January 22, 2018 @11:03PM (#16210890)
True, but the article is about the American West and public lands, Zinke is at the center of much of that debate.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by davidw on Monday January 22, 2018 @11:54PM (#16211110)
It's also in a UK newspaper, so it's a bit of a wash. In any event, it's not a big effort to look up.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by s0rce on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @12:23AM (#16211241)
Looks like the author is from Montana and is probably familiar with Zinke and possibly didn't consider the foreign readers.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by craftyguy on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @12:11AM (#16211197)
I'm from the US and I have no idea what a Zinke is.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by seattle_spring on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @01:17AM (#16211430)
Preserving public lands is immeasurably more important than 99.9999% of the framework drivel posted on HN, so I'd recommend you spend 5 minutes reading up on current affairs.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by craftyguy on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @02:36PM (#16216795)
I don't disagree with you, I just have a hard time memorizing Cabinent Member <insert current shithead's name here> names.
Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by joshuaheard on Monday January 22, 2018 @07:57PM (#16209828)
Part of the problem is that the federal government is the largest landholder is most of the Western states (https://goo.gl/images/vsw7rK), so conceivably there are a lot of adjacent private lands. How do you determine access? If I have a property that borders federal (public) land, must I grant access?

The other problem then, is that all this land is managed by bureaucrats in Washington DC. A better solution would be to give the bulk of this land to the states who are closer to the local residents and can more effectively manage the property. Limited easements should then be purchased from willing sellers.

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by dawnerd on Monday January 22, 2018 @09:10PM (#16210301)
> If I have a property that borders federal (public) land, must I grant access?

Depending on if there's an easement on your property, yes. These kinds of things are usually spelled out clearly in real-estate deals. A lot of homeowners on the beach think they own the land up to the water but that's not always the case despite them trying to block access. No one has to necessarily cross their property to get there either.

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by tmh79 on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @12:11AM (#16211195)
> A lot of homeowners on the beach think they own the land up to the water but that's not always the case despite them trying to block access.

In California, it is literally never the case, by state law.

Re:Private landowners blocking access to public lands in the... by dawnerd on Tuesday January 23, 2018 @01:21AM (#16211450)
In Ventura there was some people trying to fight that near the marina. If I remember correctly one of the homeowners tried to build a fence/wall to the water.

Also remember something similar happening in Malibu.