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Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by secret_island on Tuesday December 26, 2017 @11:51PM (#16012913)
I'm sure they are getting their playbook from their Chinese friends. Even Japan is getting more heavy handed than they were, and in Asia, they are the most liberal of all governments in comparison.

Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, all heavy handed as regards the Internet. Russia, China, most of the former Balkan states, Turkey... Brazil, even.

Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by tzahola on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @03:29AM (#16013611)
Careful with that high horse buddy! Progressive western countries aren’t exactly new to internet censorship either: https://www.theverge.com/2017/6/21/15847262/german-facebook-...
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by fixermark on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @01:59PM (#16017004)
To view the issue through the lens of extremes: blocking easy search-engine access to child pornography is a form of censorship, and nearly nobody thinks it's a bad idea.

All large companies execute some level of censorship and all countries have standards of decorum. The question is really how much censorship one tolerates, not whether any at all is tolerable.

Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by nradov on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @01:26AM (#16013254)
Vietnam and China aren't exactly friends. They fought a war in 1979 and have ongoing territorial disputes.
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by tuananh on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @02:26AM (#16013405)
more like "special administrative region" of china.

thought not many people want to believe that, China has very strong political influence in Vietnam

Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by abritinthebay on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @02:50AM (#16013479)
That’s a breathtaking over simplification of their relationship.

It’s a very complex and mildly antagonistic relationship while, yes, also having strong cultural and political influence.

Your characterization is incredibly broad however and - taken as written - quite inaccurate

Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by cageface on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @03:07AM (#16013546)
I've been living in Vietnam for over seven years now and spoken to countless locals about this and it's way more than mildly antagonistic.
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by santoriv on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @04:00AM (#16013698)
Agreed. The general sentiment that I've gotten from talking to people is that they are worried that either China will invade Vietnam (and hope that the US will protect them) or that the Vietnamese government has already "sold out" their country to China.
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by tuananh on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @04:11AM (#16013737)
> or that the Vietnamese government has already "sold out" their country to China.

That's what im' trying to say as well

Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by dsr_ on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @07:50AM (#16014457)
Two thousand years of a cycle of occupation, rebellion and invasion will tend towards the antagonistic, yes.
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by abritinthebay on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @12:47PM (#16016446)
Hah, yes well I guess it’s all about perspective. They’re not threatening war or pretending they will so - for a country - it’s mild.

But yeah, culturally speaking there’s a great animosity that’s true (while having strong ties as well, it’s a dichotomy)

Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by oh-kumudo on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @01:48AM (#16013307)
Democracy is an import to (East) Asian society. The Confucian authoritarian philosophy had been the norm for almost 2000 years. By default, more power are delegated to the government, and people are oblivious or reluctant to question it.
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by tehlike on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @01:23AM (#16013245)
Internet is just one channel where you can express opinions. Many journalists are jailed even today based on their opinions, and I feel it's on us tech people to enable them the free speech they deserve.
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by cooper12 on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @02:24AM (#16013400)
"Us tech people" are the ones enabling them to censor though. From the article: "Facebook this year removed 159 accounts at Vietnam’s behest, while YouTube took down 4,500 videos, or 90 percent of what the government requested".
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by digitalzombie on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @03:49AM (#16013676)
On that same thread, Cisco built the Chinese Golden Shield which is what now is refer to the great chinese firewall iirc.
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by olalonde on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @02:28AM (#16013412)
That's nonsense. Countries are responsible for making up their own laws, not foreign techies.
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by geofft on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @02:35AM (#16013432)
I think it behooves all techies to reread and really think about the Declaration of the Independence of Cyberspace every now and then:

https://www.eff.org/cyberspace-independence

Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by olalonde on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @02:45AM (#16013466)
I am deeply against censorship, consider myself a libertarian and wouldn't personally work for Facebook. I deeply sympathise with this manifesto. But I'm also a consequentialist and I believe the Vietnamese are overall better served with a censored Facebook/Youtube than no Facebook/Youtube at all. I also don't believe that getting 100% of techies on our side is a realistic strategy.
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by tehlike on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @04:40AM (#16013824)
It definitely isn't. There's also the "something you build can be used for evil or for good" aspect, too.

When I say enable, I am talking about stateless nonprofits creating platforms where people can communicate freely, express themselves freely, and if they need to - organize protests to protect their freedoms. Things like Signal are great steps toward it, but we need more.

Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by tehlike on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @04:42AM (#16013828)
If you are from the US, be aware that even United States spies on its citizens, and recently-activated social media screening is just another step towards it.
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by walshemj on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @04:52AM (#16013859)
sorry to break it to you some citizens can be traitors relaying on the "I know his people" and he's a good chap belongs to the right club does't work as a vetting procedure as we found in the UK with the cambridge 5 and others
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by tehlike on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @05:20AM (#16013944)
I agree, but this is a slippery slope, and be mindful that warrantless surveillance is technically illegal (or not, i don't know what patriot act brought these days). It's a slippery slope because there is no end to it. It starts with surveillance - which evades privacy, then comes your freedom of speech, then your freedom to choose.
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by walshemj on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @01:17PM (#16016657)
Oh I agree on warrantless wire tapping the one of problems with the states is they don't separate the Police role of the FBI from is Security / Contra Espionage.
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by lostlogin on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @04:02AM (#16013704)
Just following orders huh?
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by tehlike on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @04:36AM (#16013815)
Most of the time, these companies are actually stronger than the government, even if they are not, there are a lot of ways they can choose to resist the orders.
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by yipopov on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @05:00AM (#16013883)
>I feel it's on us tech people to enable them the free speech they deserve.

It's clearly not a technical problem, so it's foolish to try to find a technical solution. This kind of silicon valley elitist Tellerism is doing more harm than good in cases like these.

Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by shiven on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @08:33AM (#16014632)
Actually, it is. It is very much a technical problem. Technology has not yet provided a super-fast, truly decentralized, perfectly uncensorable “Internet for All” solution. If we had that, a lot of this discussion would be moot.

Someone in Dalat could teach Vietnamese to any number of foreigners, without any adversary being the wiser. Anyone in China could read up on Tiannenmen Square or the “Free Tibet” movement without fear of arrest. People in Indonesia could watch any film they wish.

“Laws” in any country on this planet are not immutable, immaculate/divine, absolute, or axiomatic. They can and should be changed — regardless of the concerns of those in power. And the only reliable way to ensure change is education, information and discussion — all unfettered, uncensored and unbridled.

Until technology guarantees that, we as ‘techies’ have not delivered. And please, don’t tell me about Tor and “teh darkwubs” — that is not a realistic solution for 99% of the online population — too slow and still not bulletproof.

Technology needs to do better.

Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by tehlike on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @01:55PM (#16016980)
Very well said, thank you.

As for tor and the dark web, more important than being fast & solid is ease of use. If we design platforms, protocols, etc by default to be censorship free, then many projects to fill gaps will follow. Tor was an attempt, but failed at widespread adoption, maybe we need something smaller to begin with. E2E encrypted chat apps was a good first step, we need more.

We take many things here in the US for granted. When I go back to my home country, I feel odd sense of insecurity, now imagine people living there for their whole lives - they take censorship as normal and go with it. With censorship comes with censored imaginations, research and so on.

Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by fixermark on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @02:03PM (#16017040)
The scenario you're describing is unlikely to be deliverable.

Any system sufficiently user-friendly to be accessible to the bulk of the global populace is also user-friendly to government authority. Because inevitably, passwords get misplaced and authentication / authorization tokens get forgotten or stolen, and then the average user needs an authority to turn to to re-establish their connection to the network.

Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by tehlike on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @04:10PM (#16018068)
Don't get it. I have been giving example of a "chat app" that's e2e encrypted. If it's easy to use, but solid to do proper e2e, government cannot do anything. Especially if messages also can "disappear" after a day. Government stops you, inspect your phone, cannot find anything. At least there is some reasonable doubt. Granted, if oppressive government has a reasonable doubt about you, you might have hard time otherwise, but that won't scale to large populations.

Similarly, if internet was designed with privacy in mind, things would have been different. If your favorite news site were available through tor, and you were using nontracking browser, you'd probably be fine.

Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by tehlike on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @07:28AM (#16014354)
Giving them a platform to freely communicate is not nothing. I think you were looking for an excuse to blame sv people.
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by taoistextremist on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @11:22AM (#16015646)
>Even Japan is getting more heavy handed than they were, and in Asia, they are the most liberal of all governments in comparison.

I feel like this isn't really true; Taiwan, and arguably South Korea have more liberal societies and governments.

Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by coldtea on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @10:15AM (#16015152)
With the pervasive surveillance, paid troll campaigns from all parties, operations to influence media from agencies, millions of fake anti-net-neutrality messages, etc, the US is not some paragon of internet freedom either...
Re:Vietnam Deploys Cyber Warriors to Fight ‘Wrongful Views' by jryle70 on Wednesday December 27, 2017 @11:53AM (#16015949)
What you said is exactly the signs of internet freedom.

If the government had the monopoly of the media they wouldn't have to have "operations to influence media from agencies".

If anti-net-neutrality of the media there wouldn't be "millions of fake anti-net-neutrality messages".

Do you want to try to set up an anti-corruption FB account in Vietnam and see what happen?