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Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by jjeaff on Friday December 22, 2017 @04:50PM (#15991198)
One thing that is certain is that there are more commercials now. If you watch an episode of The Big Bang Theory sans commercials, you will notice that it is only 17 minutes long! And that includes the 60 second intro. So 13 minutes of commercials for 16 minutes of actual content. No chance I'll be going back to regular TV.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by labster on Friday December 22, 2017 @05:07PM (#15991304)
To be fair, the commercials are the best part of watching The Big Bang Theory. Much better to spend a few minutes imagining how cool I would be if I just owned Product X rather than see a nerd minstrel show with an annoying laugh track.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by linkmotif on Friday December 22, 2017 @09:35PM (#15992594)
Thanks that’s such a great way to put it! I couldn’t have said it better myself. Watching shows like BBT about “nerds” is really depressing. I mean compare how math was depicted in 1952 vs today: https://imgur.com/a/Mvwgt. Look, it’s math, sort of. Today it’s nothing but a minstrel show that makes science seem even more inaccessible than it was portrayed just 20 years ago.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by creep on Saturday December 23, 2017 @01:57PM (#15995629)
Not to mention the downright offensive portrayal of aspergers and autism in general. And also, "LOL look at Penny, she's so stupid in comparison to these genius nerds, hahaha, oh awww but she's so sweet and pretty, oh haha there goes Sheldorp with more of his antics, what a loveable hateful genius, wow I wonder when I'm gonna learn my next Physics Fact. Geez I wish I weren't so stupid, I'll never be as smart as these guys..."
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by specialist on Friday December 22, 2017 @06:59PM (#15991928)
Tried it. Hated it. The same way I hated South Park. Cheap laughs. Punching down vs punching up. Mean spirited.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by joejerryronnie on Friday December 22, 2017 @11:36PM (#15992953)
Definitely reconsider watching Southpark. The last few seasons are the sharpest social and political satire on television.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by backpropaganda on Friday December 22, 2017 @11:47PM (#15992979)
South Park Seasons 18 and 19 are almost like a different series as compared to the previous seasons.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by specialist on Saturday December 23, 2017 @03:39PM (#15996155)
Thanks for the replies. I'll reconsider.

I still haven't forgiven Parker & Stone for telling people that voting didn't matter. If they've grown up, with some kind of mea culpa, I'll be happy to welcome them back to civil society.

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by devdad on Saturday December 23, 2017 @05:54AM (#15993737)
This is not the image I have of SP. Okay with cheap laughs, but I believe they (mostly) punch up.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by lostmsu on Friday December 22, 2017 @10:03PM (#15992677)
Reconsider. Watch South Park "Grounded Vindaloop" episode.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by Josephat on Friday December 22, 2017 @09:21PM (#15992549)
For those who took the bait, I'm thinking they're missing something. For what it is worth, I've met quite a few young people who credit their interest in studying medicine and biology to shows like CSI (which I personally loathe).

Anyone have an anecdote of young BBT fans being drawn to physics or math?

Sure, it's a comedy, but it's not like there's a watchable Star Trek turning a new generation towards STEM. Mr. Robot, probably just breeding more anarchists.

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by dhimes on Saturday December 23, 2017 @08:47AM (#15994132)
Orville. Check it out.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by telekid on Friday December 22, 2017 @05:41PM (#15991521)
…really? "Nerd minstrel show?" Ah yes, we poor nerds, overcoming centuries of repressive awkwardness and desk jobs.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by jacobolus on Friday December 22, 2017 @06:01PM (#15991616)
Maybe an analogy in poor taste, but the premise of BBT is basically “look how many negative stereotypes of scientists and engineers we can get our audience to point and laugh at, if we take our lazy awkward mean-spirited writing and put a laugh track over the top”.

Try searching for versions with laugh track removed to get a better sense of the writing per se without the extra emotional manipulation.

Compare with Silicon Valley, a comedy show which also mercilessly skewers nerds, but more for the sake of social commentary than just piling on insults, and which treats even the most caricatured characters with some dignity and humanity.

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by PakG1 on Friday December 22, 2017 @08:22PM (#15992336)
I find this sentiment interesting. I find BBT hilarious and identify with the characters. I often drag my wife to watch a specific BBT episode to get her to understand the way I think or understand the way I was in the past before I met her. I don't find it demeaning at all. I often find it hilarious and say, "yeah, that's me right there!" I see myself in Sheldon, Leonard, and Howard all of them. Raj, not so much. I haven't watched enough of The IT Crowd that people here on HN cite as being a better show to know what I think of it. The few clips I've seen on YouTube, I've only seen the IT Crowd characters being bullied more than I ever saw BBT characters get bullied. It's probably a biased sample, maybe those clips are at the top of the list because people like to watch nerds get bullied? I don't know. All I know is that I don't get all the hate towards BBT.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by rubyn00bie on Saturday December 23, 2017 @04:52AM (#15993606)
It’s for those of us who aren’t able to express ourselves using the characters. My family, friends, and outsiders use the stereotypes to label me or describe me in ways I find incorrect. It’s not a knock against those it does, I’m just incorrectly placed and it’s frustrating. In some ways, yes, it’s hating the symptom and not the root, but I’m only human despite my steadfast nihilism.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by jjeaff on Tuesday December 26, 2017 @04:49PM (#16011258)
I like IT Crowd, but I agree, it is just some funny, derpy IT guys that nothing every goes right for. But BBT guys have a lot of the stereotypes but generally come out triumphant over the bullies and thugs of the world. If anything, BBT celebrates "nerds" more than any other show in recent memory.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by kbenson on Friday December 22, 2017 @06:10PM (#15991659)
I never really watched much of it, but this PA comic[1] from a few years back clued me into this. I can't say I disagree (even if I've known plenty of nerds that like Big Bang Theory). Sterotypes often have some truth to them, to lesser and greater degrees, but that doesn't mean playing them up to an extreme degree for laughs is something we should necessarily encourage.

1: https://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2013/01/21/royalty

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by Fnoord on Friday December 22, 2017 @06:13PM (#15991679)
Someone made a series out of Revenge of the Nerds?
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by brunoc on Friday December 22, 2017 @06:10PM (#15991653)
I stole this from someone else, but I can’t remember who. BBT is what stupid people think smart people are like.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by eco on Friday December 22, 2017 @08:50PM (#15992445)
I think Big Bang Theory is terrible but I don't think the people who like it are dumb. Just a different taste in humor. I've heard a similar observation but contrasting Big Bang Theory with Arrested Development (or Community or Rick and Morty, whichever someone wants to say is smart, I guess) that I think is more accurate: "The Big Bang Theory is a dumb show about smart people. Arrested Development is a smart show about dumb people."

I think "dumb show" reflects more about the style of humor than the type of people who like it. Some people prefer clever, subtle humor. Some people want goofy and slapstick humor. Some people love awkward situational humor. There is no account for taste.

But yeah, it's an awful show.

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by derefr on Friday December 22, 2017 @08:57PM (#15992471)
> I don't think the people who like it are dumb

I don't think that's quite what the parent was saying. It's not that BBT is a show for a dumb audience. Rather, BBT is a show about supposedly smart characters, with a writing staff that doesn't have anyone sufficiently-smart-enough on it to be able to accurately depict the thinking process of genuinely smart characters.

You can't, as someone with an average IQ, really write the internal monologue of someone with a much higher IQ. You can probably capture their personality, but you can't solve problems the way they solve problems (or write characters who do so) without, at least temporarily, actually being that smart.

This is an often-discussed aspect of writing military fiction: it's basically impossible to come up with the sort of strategic masterstrokes that a famous general would come up with, without yourself being a famous general. You can bring together ten lesser strategists and ask them to knock their heads together, and you still won't get a brilliancy† out.

† https://www.chess.com/article/view/how-to-play-a-brilliancy

Most people who write master strategists in fiction end up just doing one of a few main things:

• they crib all the "clever moves" from well-known historical battles. This limits you to just, essentially, writing history over again wearing a new coat.

• they get an actual master-ish strategist to consult. You see this in, for example, sports anime about chess or Go—the author usually relied on input from a high-level professional (but not master) player.

• they just make the characters' abilities entirely informed, rather than explicit. This is your Sherlock Holmes story: you can see what they came up with in the end, but you don't get any insight into how they went about putting it together. The author just decided what the solution was, worked backward to what sorts of clues would lead one to that solution, and then decided by fiat that the protagonist would notice those clues.

The whole "rational fiction" movement is basically about avoiding doing any of the above.

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by kohanz on Friday December 22, 2017 @11:28PM (#15992935)
Exactly, the only people I know who like it are non-technical (e.g. my mother-in-law) who like it because "lol, nerds" (disclaimer: I'm not saying there aren't technical people out there who like BBT). For me, it's in the same awful category as 2-and-a-half men of shows with huge audiences that I can't watch for any length of time.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by restlake on Saturday December 23, 2017 @09:24AM (#15994247)
same creator as Two and a Half Men and some of those other shows you’re probably thinking of so that’s an apt comparison
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by hawkice on Friday December 22, 2017 @07:26PM (#15992057)
I'm going to go out on a limb and say minstrel shows were disgusting and mean-spirited enough that the historical context that contained them was overpowered by its own characterizing foulness. Would be a pretty stomach churning thing to see today even without knowledge of the history. Definitely a coherent metaphor, in the same way 'grammar nazi' is -- conflating style but not magnitude.
[dead]
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by ryanwaggoner on Friday December 22, 2017 @09:21PM (#15992548)
Jim Parsons has won four Emmy awards and a long list of others for his portrayal of Sheldon Cooper. You may hate the character and the actor, but he’s objectively not a terrible actor.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by coldtea on Friday December 22, 2017 @11:29PM (#15992939)
If only the Emmys meant anything else besides what's popular this season first and foremost...
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by coldtea on Friday December 22, 2017 @11:27PM (#15992932)
As if a group can complain against discrimination only if their pain is as big as another groups?

BBT as a minstrel show -- which is a way of mocking another group -- is an apt simile, regardless of whether blacks suffered worse fate or not.

Which is not even relevant anyway: what blacks suffered had little to do with minstrel shows, those were the least of their troubles. If parent had compared BBT to slavery, you'd have a point. But he made a much more precise argument.

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by harambaebae69 on Monday December 25, 2017 @11:22AM (#16004630)
Just a technicality - Chuck Lorre productions, including The Big Bang Theory, do not use laugh tracks [0].

But yes the live audience laughs moronically on cue and I totally agree with your assessment of the show.

[0] http://www.chucklorre.com/index-bbt.php?p=537

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by Analemma_ on Friday December 22, 2017 @06:16PM (#15991699)
> nerd minstrel show

Do we have to go through this every time BBT is mentioned on the internet. We all know the show sucks and why, and adding this descriptor only starts the same stupid fight that appears on every BBT thread and is never resolved and just makes everyone angry.

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by coldtea on Friday December 22, 2017 @11:30PM (#15992941)
Why would it need to be resolved? What thread ever gets resolved when there are > 1 opinions to begin with?
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by alsetmusic on Friday December 22, 2017 @05:49PM (#15991563)
> One thing that is certain is that there are more commercials now. If you watch an episode of The Big Bang Theory sans commercials, you will notice that it is only 17 minutes long! And that includes the 60 second intro. So 13 minutes of commercials for 16 minutes of actual content. No chance I'll be going back to regular TV.

I get my episodes of BBT from iTunes. You’re correct that BBT episodes are shorter than most other mainstream shows (at least in my own library). They are often only about 18-19m, other episodes reach 21-22m as well. I don’t see any below 18m in the past four seasons and stopped searching beyond that. Alternatively, most of the half-hour shows I watch are consistently about 20-21m, so BBT is definitely providing less content overall.

As for the assertion of 1m intros with BBT, that's 3x longer than reality. I scripted simple controls for controlling iTunes via my phone so that I wouldn’t need to reach for my kbd or trackpad. I set the FWD time to 30 seconds and the BACK time to 10 seconds. Jumping ahead by 30s is appropriate for most shows that I watch, whereas BBT requires me to also jump back by 10s (it has a 20s intro).

Few sitcoms still have 1m or longer intros. New Girl is about 5s, down from around 30s when it started. It’s Always Sunny in Philadelphia dropped from 1m to 30s. The Sarah Silverman Program dropped from 22s to 17s in 2010. I see the overall trend for typical broadcasts as gradually reducing intros (excluding shows on HBO, etc; those still have very long intros but also no commercials).

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by freehunter on Friday December 22, 2017 @07:16PM (#15992019)
The Simpsons has some intros that push up to and sometimes over two minutes in length. Sure, they're often clever and do take time and money to create, but it's still time taken from the actual show.

Supernatural or Lost are good examples of how an intro should be. Literally just the name of the show on the screen for a few seconds, no theme music that gets annoying halfway through the season, no montage of the characters tromping around a fountain, just skip to the show.

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by purple-again on Saturday December 23, 2017 @09:08AM (#15994199)
Many people would consider the simpsons intros part of the show not a traditional intro. Seeing what Bart writes on the chalkboard was my favorite part of the show as a kid.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by delecti on Saturday December 23, 2017 @09:26AM (#15994252)
An intro they only use once is part of the "actual show".
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by wst_ on Friday December 22, 2017 @07:51PM (#15992180)
Netflix is just skipping intro for you.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by JonathonW on Saturday December 23, 2017 @01:35AM (#15993200)
No intro to skip in Lost (it's just 5-10 seconds of the show title against a black screen).

That's been the trend for dramas basically ever since-- Lost was among the first to adopt the minimal intro that's popular now. Stargate even made a joke out of it in one of their later episodes.

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by freehunter on Friday December 22, 2017 @08:22PM (#15992339)
Really? Weird. Usually if it skips the intro it plays the entire intro the first time you play it after not playing it for a while. It never does that for me.

At any rate... the Netflix skipped intro is how it should be done. Thank god for Netflix.

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by dexterdog on Friday December 22, 2017 @05:06PM (#15991295)
If you're watching it in syndication it's probably either cut or sped up (or both) to squeeze in even more commercials. The intro and credits combined are about a minute on that show as most 30 minute shows are.

I don't complain about the speeding too much as I watch most shows are 1.5x and cut out the commercials so a show with 18 minutes of content takes 12 minutes.

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by flavor8 on Friday December 22, 2017 @05:30PM (#15991461)
I could see speeding up shows to 1.5x if I was a reviewer and was watching them for work. But speeding up your entertainment seems strange to me. It'd be like ordering French Laundry to go.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by lostlogin on Friday December 22, 2017 @06:09PM (#15991652)
For those with a level of cultural awareness like mine, French Laundry seems to be a flash restaurant in Napa valley, California.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by dmode on Friday December 22, 2017 @07:00PM (#15991931)
This made me laugh. French Laundry is like a cultural institution in California cuisine and is actually located in Yountville. I have never been there though. Have a tough time dumping $1000 on single dinner
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by briandear on Friday December 22, 2017 @06:49PM (#15991878)
It's an AMAZING restaurant in Napa -- Thomas Keller's the chef and it's the culinary equivalent of an orgasm.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by bauerd on Saturday December 23, 2017 @08:09AM (#15994025)
Is it really $310 per head?
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by sdenton4 on Saturday December 23, 2017 @11:23AM (#15994791)
Yeah, but just the tip is more.

(I'm sorry.)

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by fwn on Friday December 22, 2017 @06:13PM (#15991676)
The entertainment density is often very low.

It doesn't work this way for content that tries to communicate a specific mood, but for slapstick humor chains like BBT, more jokes is just funnier than less jokes per minute.

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by nasredin on Friday December 22, 2017 @07:50PM (#15992174)
Is this a recent change?

IIRC the standard is:

22 minutes for 30 min shows

44 minutes for hour long shows

You can go to RARBG and check the MediaInfo for any show.

So you get 16 min of ads every hour. So a quarter of each hour is ads.

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by nostrademons on Friday December 22, 2017 @05:01PM (#15991260)
Is that all that different from what it was before? My recollection of 80s sitcoms & children's programs is that they had 3 commercials of 3 minutes apiece, plus a 3 minute break between programs. That's 12 minutes.

Actually, I can test this...I've got some old My Little Pony episodes lying around on a hard disk. They're 9 minutes apiece. IIRC they ran 2 to a timeslot, so that's 18 minutes of show per 30 minute timeslot, and 12 minutes of commercials.

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by jamroom on Friday December 22, 2017 @05:09PM (#15991315)
I don't know about kids cartoons, but I just watched the original Star Trek episodes from the late 60's and they are 50 minutes each (for a 1 hour time slot) so that's 10 minutes of commercials. Hour long episodes are now about 40 to 41 minutes in length, so the number of commercials has doubled since then.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by Fnoord on Friday December 22, 2017 @06:16PM (#15991692)
Its gonna differ per country. I remember in the 90s 3 commercial breaks in a movie here in NL was default. I was shocked and annoyed when I learned in early 00s it was every 20 min. I don't know what it is now, I avoid commercial TV like the plague. Though public broadcasting also still has them. As a kid and young adult I used to be able to sometimes laugh at commercials. Nowadays, some commercials appeal more to me due to age diff, but many don't because they use youth language. On top of that I find practically all commercials are condescending, stupid, and annoying. Their attempts to deceive and manipulate are laughable, ineffective, a waste of my time, and a waste of my mood. Nothing good comes out of me watching commercials. Not for the advertiser, nor for me. I cannot remember the last time it stimulated me to buy something I otherwise wouldn't. That is, from TV commercials and ads on the Internet. Product placement, embedded marketing, marketing buzz works fine. I suspect there's so many TV commercials because it is ineffective. If less people watch than before, its more expensive to buy the rights, so they gotta advertise more. Or perhaps its corporate greed.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by BashiBazouk on Friday December 22, 2017 @07:20PM (#15992035)
SciFi channel once aired the original uncut TOS episodes. Each episode took an hour and fifteen minute time slot. Shows how much commercials have increased since than...
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by mynameisvlad on Friday December 22, 2017 @05:21PM (#15991406)
Taking a look specifically at the Big Bang Theory, up until Season 10, most episodes were around 21 minutes. Season 10 had episodes around 20-21 minutes, and the current season (11) hovers around the 19-20 minute mark.

When I was in High School, our English teacher actually wrote and produced a TV show and was telling us about her experience and some of the things she had to do to cut episodes in the right amount of time for commercials. At the time (mid 2000s), the average was 23 minutes of show per 30 minute episode.

Looking across my library at recent shows, it seems to average about 21 minutes nowadays.

Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by kakarot on Friday December 22, 2017 @07:49PM (#15992167)
Not to mention networks like TBS have been caught speeding up shows like Seinfeld so that they can squeeze more commercials into the timeslot.
Re:Kids in ‘Netflix Only’ Homes Saved from 230 Hours of Comm... by goblins on Saturday December 23, 2017 @05:33AM (#15993693)
Certainly US TV has way more adverts than TV in the UK, but even UK TV has more adverts.

I stopped watching normal TV 2 years ago and before that used to record all my shows so I could fast forward through the adverts. Stuck at the in-laws for Christmas and I actually can't watch their TV due to the adverts now.