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Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by metamet on Friday November 24, 2017 @11:27AM (#15771608)
> They want to distinguish themselves and buy the feeling of authentic life and values.

More than this, I think there is a substantial portion of consumers who aren't as much attempting to distinguish themselves as they are realizing how important their dollar vote is.

Buying from a small or local farm keeps money circulating locally (ideally). When there is a community of local businesses, this becomes amplified.

It's the primary reason why the whole "farm to table" concept with restaurants caught on. By choosing to eat at a diner that gets their eggs from a local farm, rather than, say, buying a breakfast sandwich from McDonalds, you're not only supporting the local restaurant, but also the local farmer.

So while there is certainly an appeal (not exclusively, either) to purchasing something labeled as classic, authentic, natural or original, there's a less selfish reasoning tied to the root of it.

An interesting part of this is the way primarily Liberal-metro local/organic movements have been ignored as a common ground, and even mocked as purely an aesthetic, by the "anti-globalists".

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by gamegoblin on Friday November 24, 2017 @12:52PM (#15772031)
Questions to someone with more economics knowledge than me:

I understand the sentiment and intuitive reasoning behind this argument (I find myself thinking it every week when I go to the local farmers' market!), but is there evidence that "buying local" actually increases the local standard of living?

And a followup: if it does increase the local standard of living, would this behavior, if duplicated in all communities in the world, increase the average standard of living in the world?

Some conflicting (and probably all wrong) intuitions I have for different sides of these questions:

Pro local:

The notion of keeping money circulating locally makes sense. If money is a sort of proxy for productivity, then money leaving the community is productivity leaving the community.

Anti local:

If I pay more for Local Larry's eggs and Down-the-road Dave's cabbage (etc.), then to maintain my standard of living at a constant level, I have to charge more for whatever service I provide the community. And recursively, everyone else has to as well. It seems like, at best, we just wind up at the same standard of living we started at (and at worst, lower).

Pro local:

If money is a proxy for productivity, and buying non-local means trading productivity to some large corporation in exchange for some good or service, and that corporation will disproportionately funnel that money to the already-wealthy who can afford to save that money (productivity) for a rainy day, then we have effectively contributed to removing productivity from the economy.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by mseebach on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:13PM (#15772168)
It only intuitively makes sense -- there are quite a few assumptions. The local product is typically more expensive because it's production is less efficient (if it wasn't, it would just compete with the non-local product at regular market conditions). Being less efficient means using more inputs per output, so what is the local farmers inputs, and -- crucially -- where are those inputs made? Is he using his not-locally-made tractor less efficiently? Is he paying a mortgage to a non-local financial institution? Is he sourcing his feed, seeds, fertilizer, fuel etc locally? And of his profit, how much of it is he spending locally?

These are difficult numbers to work out exactly, but it's not difficult to see that they have to be in a pretty thigh range for your local-premium to actually, on the net, drain resources from the community, compared to you just eating cheaper meals a bit more frequently. The main type of input that most obviously support the local community is labor, and most modern products, particularly agriculturally, are rather light on labor, so you might end up supporting one job at the farm in favor of three jobs at the diner. Especially if the farm-job is held by a "highly educated, ex-urban, first-time farmer" and the diner-jobs by single moms, it's getting morally quite dubious.

But to wrap this up, local to non-local is rarely apples to apples. Just as with organic, there's probably a very substantial overlap with meeting a demand for products that are simply better (and thus more expensive), with the nominal quality (local, organic) actually being secondary.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by jcbrand on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:04PM (#15772443)
> The local product is typically more expensive because it's production is less efficient

I agree with the gist of what you're saying, but I think you're leaving out some details.

We know that other non-local products can be made cheaper because they are in localities that are lax on labor laws and environmental protection.

So the notion that it's simply about efficiency is in my opinion a bit reductionistic. As an example, to make my point... I would use a different word than "efficiency" to describe someone who uses slave-labor to push costs down.

So when buying local, at least you know which standards the producers are held to. It's the same with Bio/Organic/Free-trade products.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by Dylan16807 on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:27PM (#15772561)
> We know that other non-local products can be made cheaper because they are in localities that are lax on labor laws and environmental protection.

That can be a factor, but simply making things in bulk is a huge efficiency gain even with the exact same worker/environment protection.

And on top of that you have transportation efficiency to take into account. A remote farm can send full trailers of product to a distribution center, which then sends full trailers carrying multiple products to stores. A local farm can't send a full trailer of apples to a local store, it has to do much less efficient things.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by tbihl on Sunday November 26, 2017 @05:19PM (#15783390)
It's not always advantageous to be efficient, and this is even more true in really important areas like food supply, because having the extra, underutilized capacity can save you in a pinch. When it comes to frivolous things like computers and phones and cars, it's much easier to favor efficiency,because the breakdowns can be really problematic, but still less immediately endangering.

Evolution is perhaps the best example of how being inefficient can be hugely beneficial in the long term.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by Dylan16807 on Sunday November 26, 2017 @06:22PM (#15783674)
Only specific types of inefficiency represent underutilized capacity. And I don't see how local food shipping qualifies. If anything the distribution-center model makes it easier to reallocate resources toward food supply, because they already have lots of trucks available that typically don't carry food.

By comparison, "just-in-time" shipping is an example where the efficiency removes those margins. But that's orthogonal to how far the food ships. You can have similar-sized buffers either way.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by tbihl on Monday November 27, 2017 @02:41AM (#15785534)
I'm going to just try a couple analogies because I suspect my argument won't come through if I try to explain or use examples. It seems like one interpretation of complex distribution networks is that they form a strong web that can flex and even have fibers break while still maintaining the cohesion and function of the whole. On the other hand, if that web actually turns out to have long dependencies, it could rapidly deteriorate, which is what concerns me.

I suppose that it's true about the large numbers of trucks, but wouldn't those only be reallocated to the detriment of providing other goods? And what happens to all our excess flexibility if severe oil shortages come to pass? Looking closer to the origin,the centralized model leaves us more susceptible to local droughts and floods (because everyone's produce comes from Salinas and watsonville), infectious diseases in livestock herds, and fungus that can cripple the entire crop of a particular fruit (because we've reduced the number of varieties by nine tenths or ninety nine hundredths.)

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by Dylan16807 on Monday November 27, 2017 @04:55AM (#15786128)
> On the other hand, if that web actually turns out to have long dependencies, it could rapidly deteriorate, which is what concerns me.

I agree, but certain types of dependencies are much riskier than others.

> I suppose that it's true about the large numbers of trucks, but wouldn't those only be reallocated to the detriment of providing other goods?

Yes, but what's the detriment of emergency-increasing local shipping? Probably at least as bad.

> And what happens to all our excess flexibility if severe oil shortages come to pass?

Local shipping takes more oil in many cases.

> Looking closer to the origin,the centralized model leaves us more susceptible to local droughts and floods (because everyone's produce comes from Salinas and watsonville), infectious diseases in livestock herds

Instead of a major shortage leading to deaths in one area, while everyone else is fine, it turns into a slight supply reduction over the entire country.

> fungus that can cripple the entire crop of a particular fruit (because we've reduced the number of varieties by nine tenths or ninety nine hundredths.)

That is definitely a major problem, but is also unrelated to how far you ship. Megafarms could plant 50 kinds of tomato efficiently, if they wanted to.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by NikolaeVarius on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:25PM (#15772550)
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by mseebach on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:20PM (#15772526)
For the purposes of this discussion, tax is a cost like any other, and subject to the same considerations: Where and on what is that money then spent? If it's spent on a Halliburton-produced armoured vehicle for the local police departments war on drugs, you and the community are probably better off buying non-local from a low-tax locality.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by Nomentatus on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:50PM (#15772665)
The biggest efficiency is nutritional, and taste - varieties that travel very, very well trade off a lot of nutrition for that trait.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by scott_s on Friday November 24, 2017 @03:12PM (#15772758)
From the studies I have heard about, there is no measurable nutritional difference between organic and non-organic food. See https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/no-health-benefits-from-org...

I am unaware of such studies for small farms versus large farms.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by sliverstorm on Friday November 24, 2017 @03:48PM (#15772938)
Your parent is not talking about organic methods, but rather different varieties of crops. E.g., big red beefsteak tomatoes are popular and travel well while little heirloom varieties do not, so you are going to have access to additional, possibly more nutrative, varieties if you buy local.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by Nomentatus on Saturday November 25, 2017 @12:01AM (#15774523)
This has nothing to do with "organic" anything - the conditions of breeding - but modern breeds of vegetables and fruit. There's no shortage of evidence of the difference, and the decline in vitamin content over the last many decades, in the U.S.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by mseebach on Friday November 24, 2017 @03:08PM (#15772746)
If you're buying a better product for a price you're considering fair, you're not meaningfully "buying local" - the product you prefer just happens to be locally produced (and possibly can only be locally produced).

The kind of buying local that you need campaigns to encourage people to do, is generally either more expensive or poorer quality than the non-local alternative.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by Nomentatus on Saturday November 25, 2017 @12:03AM (#15774530)
Better is the whole point of buying local - the can't buy traditional varieties remotely because they don't ship well. Of course you COULD buy shabby shipping varieties locally, but that was never what Alice was about, and it would be a silly thing to do.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by icc97 on Thursday December 07, 2017 @07:02AM (#15869337)
There's quite a lot of economics behind this for local currencies e.g. The Brixton Pound [0]. The number of times that currency gets re-used (keeps flowing in the system) is very important, that is the person you pay, uses that to pay for something else locally rather than just sticking it in their bank or sending it overseas.

Susan Steed, one of the co-founders of the Brixton Pound explains a bit more in this TEDx video [1]

[0]: http://brixtonpound.org/

[1]: https://youtu.be/l_F0xBABI7c?t=7m6s

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by kuschku on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:09PM (#15772153)
A good argument is the question what happens with the money.

For example, assume Facebook replaces a local competitor. Now instead of the profit going to owners, which spend it locally, on philanthropic projects, or just high quality goods, instead it goes to Mark Zuckerberg, who spends it in the US, on US brands, and to fund US charities, in best case.

If you currently live outside the US, outside SV and NYC, you’d very likely gain an advantage if everyone would buy local. The skyscrapers of NYC, and the philanthropic projects in these regions of the US, are funded with money that was extracted all over the globe, but will probably never leave the US again.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by mseebach on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:16PM (#15772184)
You need to see a layer deeper than that. The opportunity cost of the tens of thousands of highly qualifies engineers required to build and run dozens of national/regional Facebooks rather than doing something else is absolutely huge.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by icebraining on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:36PM (#15772288)
Free software can help with that. In my past two jobs, I've worked with a business platform which we adapt for our clients by developing custom modules, and there's a decent community of small companies from over the world which sell mostly to their internal markets but share modules under Free licenses.

Of course, nobody is getting rich from this, but there are many of us making a very decent living.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by mseebach on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:51PM (#15772366)
It's not about that. It's about choosing not to use an existing, appropriate solution because it is not being developed and run locally. There can be valid regulatory or security reasons to choose that, I'm only considering the "keeping money local" argument.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by icebraining on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:29PM (#15772566)
My point is that you can keep money local without having to develop everything locally.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by whytaka on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:23PM (#15772542)
Gains from trade is maximized when traders specialize in their most productive work. When profit is reinvested, it raises the standard of living. - Econ 101

If for any reason, you truly value your neighbourhood chicken farmer Bob's livelihood though, there's no better means of buying Bob's well-being than giving money straight to Bob.

You would have to reimagine the idea of "a high standard of living" to include the comfort of knowing that Bob's well-being is sustained.

Of course it would be at the cost of excluding the welfare of people outside of your monkeysphere.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by tspike on Friday November 24, 2017 @09:11PM (#15774064)
Negative externalities are rarely fully accounted for with this model. If you ignore the non monetary impacts, specialization wins every time.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by koverstreet on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:29PM (#15772570)
You might be taking spherical cows too far.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by whytaka on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:37PM (#15772611)
I don't know what you mean.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by jacobush on Friday November 24, 2017 @03:03PM (#15772723)
You are over-simplifying, he says.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by sliverstorm on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:53PM (#15772674)
Pro-local: attempts to directly avoid problems of trade imbalance and wealth sequestration in imperfect markets

Anti-local: a perfectly functioning market doesn't have those problems

It's basically protectionism with all the same arguments for and against. Less economically optimal, but protects you from market malfunction and bad actors.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by huehehue on Friday November 24, 2017 @11:40AM (#15771680)
There's at least a third explanation as well, which is the fact that eggs from farmer Tom down the road are likely to taste 1000x better than the egg-inspired food product in a McGriddle.

I can't imagine many people are thinking "Screw local farmers, I want Tyson Chicken Nuggets!". That might be a bad example but the point is that cost is probably the bigger factor here, not politics or lifestyle or even taste.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by krrrh on Friday November 24, 2017 @12:36PM (#15771960)
I’m not disagreeing with the trust of your comment, but despite popular belief, McDonalds does use real eggs.[1,2] Though there’s no doubt that an egg from a chicken who has walked around, eating bits of grass and bugs, will taste better and have a better nutritional profile.

[1] https://yourquestions.mcdonalds.ca/answer/does-your-egg-mcmu... [2] https://www.cnbc.com/2015/01/27/are-mcdonalds-eggs-real-fast...

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by jrs95 on Friday November 24, 2017 @12:46PM (#15772011)
It does, but only the McMuffin sandwiches really taste like it. The others use the folded egg that they get premade and frozen.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by greedo on Monday November 27, 2017 @10:59AM (#15788295)
The folded eggs used to be made from fresh eggs. Did this change?
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by jrs95 on Monday November 27, 2017 @11:39AM (#15788614)
It must have, if they were. It's still made from eggs, they just make a bunch of liquid egg and then make it into these shapes and freeze them & ship to restaurants. The scrambled eggs in the big breakfast weren't frozen, though. They could made with the sort-of-real liquid egg stuff or just fresh eggs, I'm not sure.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by greedo on Tuesday November 28, 2017 @11:58AM (#15798965)
Strange... We used to have a blender for both scrambled eggs and folded eggs. Crack the eggs in, blend them smooth as silk and Bob's your uncle.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by dpc59 on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:20PM (#15772208)
They microwave them though, eggs are good when they're cooked a in a bunch of fat with herbs and spices.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by jjoonathan on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:40PM (#15772311)
Yes, but only a small/unknown brand can successfully hide the fact that it's been cooked in a bunch of fat and properly salted/spiced. Once the brand becomes big enough, people are forced to confront the fact that the good food is good on account of being unhealthy.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by davemp on Friday November 24, 2017 @12:50PM (#15772024)
Eggs are insanely cheap. I’m not sure why anyone would bother to fake them.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by umanwizard on Friday November 24, 2017 @06:42PM (#15773637)
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by bordercases on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:04PM (#15772116)
To economize other costs on the supply chain and to standardize quality
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by Clubber on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:14PM (#15772498)
This plus spoilage, durability & logistics costs. (which you might be already including).
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by 0xbear on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:06PM (#15772457)
>> there’s no doubt

There is very much doubt about that. Stanford (IIRC) did a study and no one could tell the difference.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by pq0ak2nnd on Saturday November 25, 2017 @07:59PM (#15778883)
i would also add to "taste" and "nutritional profile", (3) the well being of the chicken, (4) the well being of the factory workers who tend to them, and (5) the impact on the environment where the non-industrial chickens are raised. the more dimensions one considers in the multivariate optimization, the more McD's starts to lose value (geometrically, even).
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by jjoonathan on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:38PM (#15772297)
> better than the egg-inspired food product in a McGriddle.

People always use this as an insult, but how cool would it be if fast/processed food providers had actually found a way to make eggs/chicken/beef/etc artificially? It's been an area of active research with decades of failed attempts to show for it. Achieving fast-food level quality would be a huge step forward.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by razakel on Friday November 24, 2017 @04:09PM (#15773029)
The secret to fast-food "quality" is the same as any other restaurant: fat, sugar and salt.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by whatshisface on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:40PM (#15772313)
Egg synthysizers exist and they're shaped exactly like chickens.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by adrianN on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:05PM (#15772448)
Now do it without a nervous system that can experience suffering
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by jjoonathan on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:29PM (#15772569)
and without losing 90% (or was it 99%?) of the input energy to heat.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by nkurz on Friday November 24, 2017 @04:59PM (#15773252)
I think egg production by chickens is actually more efficient than that. If I'm reading Figure 1 in the following link correctly, it looks like modern farms are about 17% efficient for calories of food fed to the chickens to calories of eggs produced: http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1748-9326/11/10/10...

For comparison (from the same figure) pork is 9%, chickens raised for meat are 13%, cow production of milk is 17%, and cows raised for beef are 3% efficient.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by goialoq on Friday November 24, 2017 @12:51PM (#15772028)
You are confusing a recipe that you don't like with an ingredient that you don't like.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by uxp100 on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:20PM (#15772211)
You seem to be implying all eggs taste the same, which is not true.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by TimothyBJacobs on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:27PM (#15772240)
Eh, at least one test seemed to show that there wasn't a noticeable difference: http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/08/what-are-the-best-eggs-ca...
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by Nomentatus on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:53PM (#15772676)
There's a massive difference in taste, and an objective measure that correlates well with this - namely, the thickness of the collagen sheath just underneath the shell (eggs being single cells.) It's an excellent correlate of the overall health and nutritional value of the egg. If the egg can't even protect itself from breakage well, the rest of the egg isn't ideal, either.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by why15characters on Friday November 24, 2017 @07:00PM (#15773689)
>There's a massive difference in taste

You feel that way, but all evidence says otherwise.

>and an objective measure that correlates well with this - namely, the thickness of the collagen sheath just underneath the shell

Measuring that is objective, but there is no evidence it correlates with taste at all.

>(eggs being single cells.)

I honestly don't know how to say this nicely. You expect people to take your pseudo-scientific nonsense seriously when posting things like this that clearly show you don't know the most basic facts on the subject? A bird egg is not a single cell. The ovum is a single cell, and is a tiny spec on the surface of the yolk. The yolk, the white and the membranes are all not part of the single cell ovum.

>It's an excellent correlate of the overall health and nutritional value of the egg.

Show us the evidence. That is an easily proven objective claim, so where's the evidence?

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by Nomentatus on Friday November 24, 2017 @11:56PM (#15774514)
Next you'll be saying that all carrots taste the same. Or wheat (my grandfather was an elevator operator - it doesn't at all according to his account, due principally to local soil conditions - different geology.)

Science isn't whatever meets your expectations. While the egg isn't functioning as one big working cell, it's not made of cells, it is what became of just one cell. More here if you want the discussion. https://www.reddit.com/r/askscience/comments/ry2ug/are_chick...

As for what healthy eggs looked like, I'm guessing you haven't spent much time on a farm. The fragile, rather sickly eggs you're so used to buying now were unknown on farms fifty years ago, when I was younger.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by kazinator on Friday November 24, 2017 @07:04PM (#15773704)
> The yolk, the white and the membranes are all not part of the single cell ovum.

Do these contribute additional cells to the egg that must be counted?

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by nitrogen on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:09PM (#15772474)
There is a huge difference in taste between different types of chicken feed. The same chicken will produce thick, dark orange, bitter yolks with one type and lighter yolks with another, in both cases free to roam and eat bugs and grass.

So any taste test that doesn't find a difference between eggs isn't testing the right eggs.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by jeffdavis on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:47PM (#15772353)
I can taste the difference.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by adrianN on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:06PM (#15772455)
Did you do a double blind study?
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by nitrogen on Friday November 24, 2017 @02:11PM (#15772482)
You don't have to blind a study when the effect size is big enough (the classic example is the ridiculousness of a double-blind test of the use of parachutes). See my other comment for how easily egg flavor can be altered.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by slavik81 on Friday November 24, 2017 @04:49PM (#15773205)
He's right to be distrustful. People are terrible at taste tests. If you ask people how something tastes, they will tend to tell you what they think they're expected to taste rather than what they actually do.

There's plenty of scientific evidence for this based on wine studies[1], but on a personal level, the tongue map myth[2] is the one that gets me. It was taught in science class as true, and we did (non-blind) experiments to measure the effect, but we failed to conclude the effect didn't exist.

[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_wine_tasting [2] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tongue_map

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by nitrogen on Friday November 24, 2017 @06:16PM (#15773542)
People are terrible at taste tests.

True, but after being served backyard vs. store eggs without being told which is which, or which feed type was in use, or that anything had changed at all, and still noticing a difference, I am confident that it is possible for the flavor of eggs to vary.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by pq0ak2nnd on Saturday November 25, 2017 @07:55PM (#15778868)
+1 for "food product". i use that more accurate term frequently.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by jrs95 on Friday November 24, 2017 @12:42PM (#15771981)
It seems to me that there's a small fraction of people who are into this stuff that are really doing this thoughtfully and for the right reasons, and that the majority really are either pursuing an aesthetic or using this or other social causes as sort of a prop or a distraction. I suppose this could vary based on where you're at, but I've met few people in the Midwest who were into this stuff that were not shallow and/or neurotic.

At the same time, that's an incredibly stupid argument to use to dismiss what is being done. The positive effects you mention happen regardless of the motivation of the individuals, and the people that start these trends seem to be the ones who really care.

Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by copenja on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:54PM (#15772385)
For what it's worth, almost all McDonald's are franchises. If you buy a breakfast sandwich there, the money likely goes to a local owner.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by jacobush on Friday November 24, 2017 @03:09PM (#15772749)
some of it
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by canadianwriter on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:37PM (#15772296)
Hell, here in Canada at least, McDonalds is trumping up that it buys it's beef locally. Same with eggs.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by Yeroc on Friday November 24, 2017 @01:58PM (#15772399)
They may well be buying locally (as in within Canadian borders, or perhaps even within the province) but they certainly won't be buying from small individual producers for the simple reason that a small scale farmer can't supply enough beef or eggs to satisfy McDonald's consumption requirements.
Re:A growing number of young Americans are leaving desk jobs... by pq0ak2nnd on Saturday November 25, 2017 @07:53PM (#15778858)
came here to say exactly what you said, but you did a more elegant job of exposing the thinly-veiled cynicism of the parent-post.

i also find it ironic that in many cases of debating this issue I find that those of us who consider "organic" to be the lowest-baseline quality are literally deploying capitalist principles by voting with our dollars, even thought my foodie kin tend to be super liberal, because the opposition attempts to claim the libertarian mantle in these scenarios.