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Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by cwkoss on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:38PM (#15742532)
Hopefully it prevents S3 buckets from being set to public.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by STRML on Monday November 20, 2017 @06:49PM (#15744433)
The new S3 console/flow sets to private by default - so some progress there, all jokes aside.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by nhumrich on Monday November 20, 2017 @08:55PM (#15744964)
S3 has always been private by default. But too many people open it up to the world for convenience.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by mtgx on Monday November 20, 2017 @09:24PM (#15745064)
Yes, but now Amazon will show them orange alerts if they do that!

I've argued this before around here - I believe it's a platform provider's responsibility for the most part to secure data, and less so the responsibility of the developer or user. Amazon should go much further and make it hard to open-up the data to the public, at least for certain categories of buckets.

So for instance some buckets should always be public by default, and some should always be encrypted and private by default. That should make intelligence agencies' choice easier, because I would imagine even if it's "harder" to process the data from an encrypted bucket, they would still prefer that option to the always public bucket.

And maybe both categories could still be configured to either be private or public, respectively, but the account owners should have to really go out of their way to make those changes. So most shouldn't bother, and just use the defaults for each category of buckets.

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by colechristensen on Monday November 20, 2017 @10:38PM (#15745334)
>I believe it's a platform provider's responsibility for the most part to secure data, and less so the responsibility of the developer or user

I would say that is going too far, or maybe I'd say it differently. If a certain problem becomes very frequent relative to it's severity, the problem is a design bug and not just user error. The provider isn't responsible for every mistake, but they are responsible for designing with mistakes in mind.

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by staticassertion on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @12:12AM (#15745734)
If your design allows insecure setups without users understanding the risks in full, I think that's on the providers and not the user. If the user understands the risks fully, then it's on the user.

I think we are way far away from users fully understanding the risks, and we're still mostly dealing with people not realizing they're vulnerable. So I put this primarily on the provider.

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by mtgx on Monday November 20, 2017 @09:20PM (#15745052)
And it only took the Pentagon exposing its main surveillance operation to get Amazon to make that change. Progress.

I wonder what other improvements we'll see when CIA's surveillance or drone strike data is also exposed to the public by a similar fuckup? Fully homomorphic encryption?

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by dantiberian on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @02:43AM (#15746347)
It goes one step better, it isn’t even connected to the Internet!
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by softgrow on Monday November 20, 2017 @07:10PM (#15744515)
From the headline I was actually expecting a ‘mystery trip’ region, cut price but you don’t find out where till you start using it.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by SimbaOnSteroids on Monday November 20, 2017 @07:34PM (#15744606)
Right like its actually AWS Atlantis-West.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by Antrikshy on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @01:23AM (#15746057)
Wakanda
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by Cyphase on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @08:07AM (#15747608)
Or NEXUS. Ding ding ding, you're a winner!
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by mockery on Monday November 20, 2017 @08:44PM (#15744923)
"With the new AWS Secret Region, we are bringing the same tools and workflows that are already available for Top Secret workloads to customers with Secret datasets and workloads."

Does this mean they already had an AWS "Top Secret" Region?

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by dantiberian on Monday November 20, 2017 @08:55PM (#15744961)
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by nova22033 on Monday November 20, 2017 @08:47PM (#15744935)
Yes. It's called C2S.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by AaronFriel on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:59PM (#15744145)
Article says that this is the first cloud provider certified for these workloads, but I believe both Microsoft Azure and Amazon AWS began negotiating these contracts around the same time.

Microsoft announced their version a few weeks ago[1]. I wonder if Google will follow shortly?

[1] https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/announcing-new-azure-...

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by killjoywashere on Monday November 20, 2017 @06:30PM (#15744340)
Microsoft's announcement has a lot "will". Amazon's has a lot of "is".
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by jknoepfler on Monday November 20, 2017 @08:41PM (#15744908)
Where the "is" should be generally understood as "is[1]"

[1] but in such a poorly tested, underbaked fashion you probably shouldn't bother for a few years

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by pnathan on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @01:25AM (#15746070)
I see someone's experienced in AWS product rollout.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by jknoepfler on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @10:52AM (#15748678)
Yeah, I worked on an AWS product launch for a product that was not ready to go live, and we ended up trying to dog-food a bunch of other AWS services that were also not ready to be live. It was honestly pretty shocking.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by killjoywashere on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @11:51AM (#15749235)
Thanks. This is the sort of experience-based comment that I read Hacker News for.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by IncRnd on Monday November 20, 2017 @10:17PM (#15745239)
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by TheDong on Monday November 20, 2017 @10:24PM (#15745271)
From the azure post you link:

> authorized for use with up to High Impact level data

That's not "Secret" or "Top secret"

AWS govcloud has existed for HI for ages; this announcement is specifically for "Secret" classified data.

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by IncRnd on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @06:45PM (#15752832)
You misunderstand. The reasons you mention were the reasons I posted those links.

FedRAMP has multiple levels. Don't conflate the FedRAMP authorizations solely with marketing terms.

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by jlgaddis on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:15PM (#15743813)
Now all of your e-mails and private data don't have to be carried all the way around the world back to Bluffdale, they can simply be dumped into AWS!
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by hackcasual on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:42PM (#15743075)
Sounds like this is an expansion of this: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/07/the-d...

to non-Intelligence Community users. You'll still need US Government Secret Clearance though.

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by gesman on Monday November 20, 2017 @08:19PM (#15744827)
AWS is a 3-letter agency from now on :)
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by Rebelgecko on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:49PM (#15743136)
Is this part of Govcloud? Unfortunately Govcloud doesn't support a handful of AWS services, it would be nice if this was more complete
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by hackcasual on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:52PM (#15743166)
It's not, though it's related. Govcloud only supports up to "Controlled Unclassified Information." This can handle Secret and Top Secret. I'd expect it to be even further restricted in terms of supported services.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by CJKinni on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:09PM (#15743770)
What does it mean for something to be an "air-gapped commercial cloud"?
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by mrep on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:24PM (#15743887)
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by jlgaddis on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:17PM (#15743827)
The "Top Secret" cloud is not connected to the Internet.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by user5994461 on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:27PM (#15743909)
Which obviously can't be true or it would be inaccessible and thus utterly useless.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by jlgaddis on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:32PM (#15743947)
Why? It can still be connected to SIPRnet or JWICS.

Or customers can get a Direct Connect from their existing facilities into the region. I presume the USG has plenty of fiber straight into these new datacenters and I'm not sure why Amazon wouldn't allow Direct Connect.

As someone else mentioned, perhaps this will get contractors to stop using public S3 buckets to share data.

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by jsjohnst on Monday November 20, 2017 @11:08PM (#15745444)
That’s not “air gapped” if it’s connected to another government network.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by jlgaddis on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @12:39AM (#15745881)
It's air-gapped from the Internet.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by jsjohnst on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @08:16AM (#15747641)
The term “air gap” does not directly imply anything to do with the Internet (doesn’t exclude it, but it applies more generally than specific networks). Yes, IC uses it to signify high/low networks, but the original usage of the term was to indicate a machine with no direct connection to the outside world. The theory being (since proven wrong), you can’t exfiltrate data remotely from a device not connected to a network.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by Gigablah on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @02:08AM (#15746238)
What if it’s submerged in coolant?
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by dsl on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @01:50AM (#15746168)
JWICS/SIPR/NSAnet/etc. are air gapped in that terminals are not allowed to be dual homed to any other network or to each other.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by jsjohnst on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @08:20AM (#15747665)
Yes, I know the inteligence community uses this definition of air gap to signify the barrier between high/low networks, but I kinda feel it misses the point of the term. If it is networked to the outside world, even securely, I feel it kinda misses the point of the “air gap” connotation (aka requiring a “sneaker net” to get data in / out). I’m likely being pedantic though, so I upvoted you as you at least gave a good response unlike others.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by derefr on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:37PM (#15743991)
It’s useful insofar as it’s connected to itself, allowing individuals and companies to share data and compute with one-another, where data can ingress/egress manually but travel the network between VPCs automatically.

It might also mean that the cloud is connected to networks that are not, themselves, Internet-routed. For example, users of the Secret region might have leased lines connecting airgapped computers in their own facilities directly to the DC for ingress/egress.

It might also mean that the network is connected to a “different Internet”, like MILNET.

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by abiox on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:54PM (#15744108)
inaccessible for whom? the public internet isn't the only (inter)network that exists.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by chiph on Monday November 20, 2017 @06:33PM (#15744355)
They likely connect via encrypted leased lines.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by jimktrains2 on Monday November 20, 2017 @06:39PM (#15744378)
It's probably connected only to the us government secret network (I forget the acronym) and not the public internet.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by nhf on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @12:42AM (#15745898)
The contracted top secret cloud is connected to JWICS. JWICS and SIPRnet (the secret counterpart) are both government internets (but are not the Internet with a capital I).
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by Zarathust on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:19PM (#15743847)
They have a robot constantly hot-swapping disks between racks maybe?
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by jo909 on Monday November 20, 2017 @06:25PM (#15744313)
I know of two government approved methods for data transfers for closed networks, one of which is pretty close. You basically have two servers connected to the same disk array, and they take turns mounting it to move files onto/off it. There is of course scanning and logging and such involved.

The other (unidirectional) method is a fibre pair connection that does not physically connect the TX with the RX in one direction, and there is some bumblefuckery that pushes the data through.

Of course classified data is only transferred from networks with lower classification to networks with higher classification, never the other way.

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by Terretta on Monday November 20, 2017 @08:30PM (#15744864)
See Raytheon “High Speed Guard” description:

PDF: https://www.raytheon.com/capabilities/rtnwcm/groups/gallery/...

From PR:

Raytheon Trusted Computer Solutions (RTCS), a wholly owned subsidiary of Raytheon Company (NYSE: RTN), today announced that its High Speed Guard (HSG) big data transfer solution has received Cross Domain System Authorization and Authority to Operate for Secret and Below Interoperability (SABI).

This allows government customers to connect to networks classified at secret and below, and enables them to start the SABI site test and evaluation toward full system accreditation.

Raytheon's HSG solution is a commercial-off-the-shelf product that enables the rapid transfer of all types of data across multiple networks at different classification levels. With the industry's fastest bi-directional transfer rates of any guard technology and proven sustained transfer rates of more than nine gigabits per second, HSG is ideally suited for large-scale deployments that require rapid, automated data transfer.

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by justinjlynn on Monday November 20, 2017 @07:17PM (#15744538)
> bumblefuckery

That is precisely how I would describe the Tenix and/or FOX-IT data pump implementations. It's amazing what people can manage to get away with even at EAL-7+.

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by SomeStupidPoint on Monday November 20, 2017 @08:24PM (#15744841)
Fun fact: many desktop printers can hit 3kbps in V40L QR codes (biggest + lowest ECC).

(Estimated at approx 10ppm by 20KiB per code.)

For the security conscious on a budget, printing QR codes to scan to a networked machine can be a way to get information off an otherwise air-gapped machine, with easy introspection and auditing. (This came up in the context of offline signing of Bitcoin transactions with a "warm" wallet -- digital, but airgapped from the "hot" wallets.)

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by alexnewman on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:14PM (#15743361)
I spent a lot of time on gov cloud console at a couple of jobs. It's very limited. At the time they didn't have lambda.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by frabbit on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @10:43AM (#15748606)
> the CIA has placed a big bet on adopting > commercial cloud technology

Can't they get the NSA to rent them some of their spare capacity from the CNCI? Or is this because they trust Amazon to have actually solved the hard problems?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utah_Data_Center

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by dsr_ on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:48PM (#15743132)
As long as there is only one Secret region, you can have reliability or you can have classified data, but not both.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by jacquesm on Monday November 20, 2017 @06:33PM (#15744349)
If your secret region goes down the data just got more secret.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by degenerate on Monday November 20, 2017 @08:04PM (#15744747)
Somehow I can see this being an actual argument in government bids, and contracting officers gobbling it up...
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by mrep on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:58PM (#15743219)
Someone posted above that there already was one before and this is the second: https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2014/07/the-d...
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by discodave on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @01:47AM (#15746154)
First region is top secret. So technically data in the existing region could be moved to the new region, but not vice versa.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by spullara on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:56PM (#15743199)
As long as they have multiple zones you can get the reliability ~ huge natural disaster that may affect other regions anyway.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by samstave on Monday November 20, 2017 @06:33PM (#15744350)
A region is a cluster of typically three distinct data centers and this could have the three D.C.'s distributed geographically in a model specifically designed to provide both.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by frandroid on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:53PM (#15743648)
It doesn't say anywhere that this is a geographically distinct region.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by openasocket on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:56PM (#15743663)
It would have to have at least physically separate data centers, that's kind of the whole point of having this in the first place.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by valbaca on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:09PM (#15743765)
region != zone
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by WatchDog on Monday November 20, 2017 @09:23PM (#15745063)
Does anyone know what sort of price premium AWS charge for their secret regions over their public commercial regions?
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by discodave on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @01:46AM (#15746150)
They're not charging per GB of S3 or whatever. It's likely a fixed(ish) priced contract that basically covers their cost of building a complete region. So the pricing doesn't really compare.

Basically, AWS is all public cloud, none of this private cloud nonsense... until you come along with a $600MM check and then you can have a private region all to yourself!

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by mrep on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @08:00AM (#15747573)
Someone's still got to pay the energy bill and for new servers to account for growth.

I don't see why they would throw at their current billing model for something else.

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by zitterbewegung on Monday November 20, 2017 @06:23PM (#15744303)
Anyone use this feature ? Also where is this region located ? ( Washington DC ?)
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by rad_gruchalski on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:08PM (#15743306)
What's the point of announcing it publicly?
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by jandrese on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:37PM (#15743516)
If they didn't nobody would know about it. It's not like Amazon has a big list of email addresses of people who have Secret data that they might want to put on the cloud. Even if they did have a list of government people like that, most of the people interested in this service are contractors who don't officially work for the government.

The government doesn't work like those spy movies where everybody knows everything the instant it happens. It's more like a big bloated corporation with thousands of subcontractors and generally lousy communication all around.

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by empath75 on Monday November 20, 2017 @06:44PM (#15744406)
There’s hardly anyone in tech with a clearance in dc who didn’t know this was coming. They’re recruiting like crazy for it.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by outworlder on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:25PM (#15743893)
Just because it's called AWS "Secret", it doesn't mean it has to be a secret :)
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by DonHopkins on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @02:54AM (#15746397)
Secrecy as a Service.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by cwt137 on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @10:39AM (#15748574)
More like Compartmentalization, Compliance, and Control as a Service
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by BLanen on Monday November 20, 2017 @05:23PM (#15743876)
What's the point of keeping it secret?
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by walshemj on Monday November 20, 2017 @06:30PM (#15744339)
OPSEC
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by Gaelan on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:12PM (#15743347)
Investors?
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by martyvis on Monday November 20, 2017 @06:31PM (#15744346)
What's the point of hiding it's existence? (Security by obscurity doesn't work).
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by DonHopkins on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @02:53AM (#15746390)
It's actually a giant honeypot.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by Spooky23 on Monday November 20, 2017 @07:22PM (#15744555)
Contractors.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by rbanffy on Monday November 20, 2017 @02:15PM (#15742325)
Cue in the "Dammit! We are not supposed to talk about it" jokes
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by philipov on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:14PM (#15742830)
When I first saw the headline, I thought it had something to do with secrets management, for, like, ssh keys... Why would they need an entire region for that?
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by nathan_long on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:22PM (#15742879)
I thought it was going to be like East or West, but We're Not Telling You Where. :)
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by cgore on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:23PM (#15742895)
atlantis-east-1 :-)
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by philipov on Monday November 20, 2017 @04:12PM (#15743345)
There is no Cow Region.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by iagooar on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:29PM (#15742954)
Security. No better separation, than physical.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by jazoom on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:43PM (#15743078)
We are pleased to announce the new AWS Secret Region. The AWS Secret Region can operate workloads up to the Secret U.S. security classification level. The AWS Secret Region is readily available to the U.S. Intelligence Community (IC) through the IC’s Commercial Cloud Services (C2S) contract with AWS.
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by jazoom on Tuesday November 21, 2017 @06:54AM (#15747259)
Usually when I post a quote from the article to shed light on what it's actually talking about it is appreciated. What's different about this time that causes a bunch of downvotes?
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by andy_ppp on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:39PM (#15743040)
Will it be locatable by latency (roughly) or is that not the point?

Additionally, if I was doing secret things I'd really think it was not a great idea to put that into a data centre marked "Definitely where I keep all of my secrets".

Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by mewfree on Monday November 20, 2017 @03:43PM (#15743083)
I don't think the point is to hide its real location or to hide secrets, but to be able to build services that comply with US classification levels (sensitive, secret, top secret).
Re:Announcing the New AWS Secret Region by empath75 on Monday November 20, 2017 @06:46PM (#15744413)
It’s not on the Internet.