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Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by pastelsky on Friday November 03, 2017 @11:04PM (#15623578)
I wish there was a some sort of a Open Source UI squad that would just work towards making awesome UIs for projects like Audacity, GIMP etc. There are so many low hanging fruits here like - iconography, spacing, using the right widget controls etc. that would make a lot more people want to use (and hopefully support) such software.
Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by ericdykstra on Saturday November 04, 2017 @02:23AM (#15624042)
Good UI is overrated in utility apps. Audacity, for the people who use it, use it very frequently. It's a powerful tool with a specific purpose. The initial few minutes of confusing UI are trounced by the hundreds of hours people spend in the program after they have all the UI and keyboard shortcuts memorized. Could it be better? Yes. Should it be a priority? Nah.
Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by pastelsky on Saturday November 04, 2017 @04:54PM (#15626854)
If you're talking about tech folks, then maybe yes, but I see a lot of popular appeal for such tools comes from ease of use. My assumption is that a lot of designers would reject a tool like GIMP / Inkscape because it appears "clunky" and rather pick paid alternatives Sketch / Photoshop instead.
Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by jhasse on Saturday November 04, 2017 @09:07PM (#15627657)
I think GIMP could have the best GUI in the world and still no designer would use it since it lacks non-destructive editing.
Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by andai on Saturday November 04, 2017 @02:06PM (#15626168)
What should the priority be?
Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by jhasse on Saturday November 04, 2017 @09:08PM (#15627660)
Fixing bugs and adding important features.
Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by GuiA on Friday November 03, 2017 @11:44PM (#15623657)
Building a solid design culture is extremely hard - in my experience having worked professionally as a designer and engineer, much more so than a solid engineering culture (which is already insanely hard). There’s a reason only a handful of organizations in the world succeed at both.

I spent time volunteering for Gnome many years ago (2.x days), and it was extremely hard there, even though it had a reputation for being one of the most designer friendly open source projects. It was a struggle to push for design considerations with obvious benefits such as accessibility - let alone anything remotely resembling aesthetics.

The issue with open source is that ultimately, the project maintainers tend to be programmers with programmers’ priorities and views on design.

Good design requires consistent, thoughtful sacrifice and compromise, and someone at the top to enforce it. If the open source UI squad makes recommendations that the Gimp maintainers choose to ignore, then what?

Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by TuringNYC on Saturday November 04, 2017 @12:01AM (#15623707)
Perhaps having "skins" capabilities would allow the best of both worlds...though it might end up like WinAmp with thousands of unuseably designed yet popular skins.
Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by wiz21c on Saturday November 04, 2017 @04:46AM (#15624275)
I'm afraid it goes deeper than that.

For example, you could decide to move some functionality from a sidebar to a context menu. this implies reprogramming the interface very differently; a skin can't do that. This also implies prototyping a lot. So basically the designer and the coder have to sit together quite a lot, that's not easy when you communicate via internet.

Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by gsich on Saturday November 04, 2017 @12:07AM (#15623718)
(UI) Designers don't want to work for free. This is more or less the observation I made in regards for Open Source software.

Having some side projects or helping OSS is somewhat expected from a programmer. From other professions not so much.

Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by themodelplumber on Saturday November 04, 2017 @12:45AM (#15623836)
I did some free UI design for a game I found on the Pygame site a while back. At the time I was gainfully employed as a graphic designer, UI designer, and illustrator. The artwork was gratefully received and I had a fun time working with the software developer. Here's what I think made it go well:

- High visibility: The game was featured in the website sidebar. So I thought it'd be neat to contribute.

- Easy as HTML: Extract game zip file, edit Python files in a text editor, plug in my own filenames instead of the default ones. Start game, see my graphics.

- Developer was very open and friendly. Just an IT guy with a hobby.

- I knew about the Pygame website already because I followed FOSS stuff.

I don't know how many UI designers are browsing sites like that, but my guess is not many. But imagine if they did: what are the chances their workflow would be as easy as it was for me? In a compiled language, forget it.

I remember a few years back when suddenly it seemed like everything was on GitHub. My UI designer peers _hated_ this and many still do. So it's far from inviting in many ways for a UI person, though I don't mean to suggest they couldn't hack it if they wanted to.

Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by chao- on Saturday November 04, 2017 @12:52AM (#15623861)
> ...suddenly it seemed like everything was on GitHub. My UI designer peers _hated_ this and many still do.

What about it do they hate? I ask as a non-designer, to whom their perspective may be foreign.

Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by themodelplumber on Saturday November 04, 2017 @01:55AM (#15623984)
They would show up wanting to find a download, and GutHub's UI was not set up like a typical private software website with a big "Download" button or menu item. It was off to the side, and I believe it said "Clone or Download", and these people are thinking, "is this some insider speak--am I at the right site?" And if you were just downloading, pretty soon you got told that you were ripping yourself off because downloading was so '80s, just clone the repo... Anyway you get the idea. All of a sudden tons of helpful UI resources were intermeshed with this GitHub ecosphere instead of living elsewhere, like on a lovingly-designed personal website with a pleasant UI that had not been mingled with versioning software.
Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by untog on Saturday November 04, 2017 @01:17AM (#15623912)
Github is a code management tool, so it isn’t too surprising that designers aren’t fond of it.

Imagine code diffs, but for visual designs instead. Showing you which palette colors have changed, which margins have been tweaked etc. - Github doesn’t do any of that.

Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by TylerE on Saturday November 04, 2017 @01:21AM (#15623917)
How could it? Do you expect them to run some sort of headless Photoshop VM?
Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by untog on Saturday November 04, 2017 @01:28AM (#15623931)
I don’t know, that wasn’t the question.

In any case, is it that insane to imagine a visual diff tool? Illustrator files are basically just SVG, it’s all very parseable.

Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by adrianN on Saturday November 04, 2017 @03:58AM (#15624199)
Write one and become rich. There are tons of graphical tools that lack a proper diff. Just lock at all the CASE tools.
Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by jcelerier on Saturday November 04, 2017 @06:57AM (#15624519)
well, it's able to display 3d files and images, so why not add some viewers for diffs ?

https://github.com/makezonefablab/MakersBook01_MusicBox/comm...

Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by jononor on Monday November 06, 2017 @04:03AM (#15634193)
Github diffs PNG and SVG images I believe.

In general one should not use PSD in an open source project, because it requires costly proprietary software. Also does not run on Linux

Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by TylerE on Saturday November 04, 2017 @02:20PM (#15626227)
There's a huge difference between displaying a simple, well documented open format and handling proprietary binary formats.
Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by jcelerier on Saturday November 04, 2017 @03:39PM (#15626542)
But there are plenty of libre software which are able to open a very large set of PSDs. Even if not everything was working perfectly, it would still be a good starting point.

https://gist.github.com/ocornut/52a4b9c679ed670851e7

Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by _phaq on Saturday November 04, 2017 @01:35AM (#15623948)
Well, most design people also have side projects, be it a Tumblr page or an endless supply of drawings that they just do to improve their drawing skills.

But that's different from helping an (OSS) application look good. For that, you have to make tons of mockups, iterate again and again, until you have something that looks good and consistent across the entire application. Ideally, you'd also want at least one other person to bounce ideas back and forth, and have an opinion about what you're doing.

This is real work, which requires a lot of commitment upfront. The equivalent of requiring a programmer to lay out the entire architecture before they write a single line of code. That's also something that mainly happens in a corporate environment, whereas for hobby projects it tends to lead to frustration.

Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by pmontra on Saturday November 04, 2017 @03:49AM (#15624184)
I agree this is a big job. Overhauling an existing application means a ton of work for both the designer and the developer. However the primary goal of designers should be making users work effectively. Building something that also looks good is a secondary goal. Great designers achieve both goals. If skills or budget are not great, go for the primary.

In the case of Audacity, I remember that I have to google how to silence a selection every time I get back to it after a break of several months. I guess this means that the primary goal is somewhat missed.

Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by usernam on Saturday November 04, 2017 @07:26AM (#15624572)
There is plenty of work that can be done incrementally though. Contributing as a designer into an OSS project is no different in commitment than another programmer/translator/contributor would.

There's always a cost to contributing. The cost gets bigger as the project gets bigger. This is totally unsurprising.

This is why people contribute more to software they use. You don't generally jump ships and help random projects for the sake of it.

Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by pastelsky on Saturday November 04, 2017 @04:58PM (#15626869)
Just as some programmers can be good at marketing products, I see no reason why developers can't be decent UI designers.

You don't need experienced UI designers to fix these low hanging issues, yet.

Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by osrec on Saturday November 04, 2017 @02:20AM (#15624039)
Funnily enough, I'm in the process of assembling a team to do just this! As a way of giving back to the open source community (which has given my company a great deal over the years), I'll be asking all my devs to spend a paid week per year contributing UI improvements to open source software.
Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by narag on Saturday November 04, 2017 @08:28AM (#15624703)
iconography, spacing, using the right widget controls etc.

I've used Audacity for simple stuff but for a long time. IMHO it's very convienent. I don't dispute it could be prettier, but usability is good.

Re:Audacity 2.2.0 Released by chrisweekly on Friday November 03, 2017 @11:18PM (#15623605)
+1 this, 1,000x this.