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Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by Bjorkbat on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @12:55PM (#15551770)
This is a shame. I mean, yeah, it was a pretty awkward gaming accessory, but outside the context of gaming people were doing some pretty fun things with it. A powerful sensor at a ridiculously cheap cost that you could use to create amazing things, provided of course your imagination wasn't weighed down by the latest dumb tech trend. That last statement is just as true now as it was when the Kinect originally came out.

Gives me some strange feels about the current state of the tech economy. The Kinect is being retired at the same time Amazon and Google are caught up in a dumb contest to see who can produce the best hockey-puck-sized speaker that can add items to your shopping list. As overwhelmingly large as tech giants like Amazon, Google, Microsoft, and Apple are, they seem mostly resigned to following trends, as opposed to creating new ones.

Don't forget, smartwatches originated from a highly successful Kickstarter campaign. Same can be said for VR. Bitcoin, and blockchain by extension, originated from a white paper published by someone who's still to this day a complete mystery.

Tech giants are very much capable of generating cash, but are damned by their inability to create gold.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by squarefoot on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:07PM (#15552522)
"A powerful sensor at a ridiculously cheap cost that you could use to create amazing things, provided of course your imagination wasn't weighed down by the latest dumb tech trend"

This. And thanks to software/hardware patents, the technology will die with the product, or remain dormant until the owner will either decide to make something else with it or (not holding my breath) release it under a FOSS license. In the meantime, like always, landfills in the 3rd world will be inundated by more hardware which could be still perfectly useable if its life didn't depend on the wishes of a single company.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by craftyguy on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:56PM (#15553055)
> landfills in the 3rd world will be inundated by more hardware which could be still perfectly useable if its life didn't depend on the wishes of a single company.

Well that's a silly comment, because by choosing not to make more then there would actually be fewer kinects in landfills than if they had decided to continue manufacturing. The decision to "build more" has absolutely nothing to do with folks deciding to throw away the ones they've already bought.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by squarefoot on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @05:28PM (#15554446)
I wasn't comparing the pollution of more products vs less products, but rather the pollution of the same number of products after they're forced to become obsolete (years before their technology becomes eventually) by patents and their closed nature which prevents anyone to properly support/use them forcing people to throw them away.
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by mostlyskeptical on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @05:17PM (#15554358)
I can even see merit to the argument that cutting off new supply will force people to recycle old supply to repair and keep their sensors running as well. I know I've got a few that I'll have to keep working.
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by derefr on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:22PM (#15552670)
There already is something else “like” it: the front-facing camera in the iPhone X.

On one hand, you could see this as fooling around with Kinect tech now requiring a $1000 investment in an iPhone. (Or buying a Kinect used; there are still plenty on the market.)

On the other hand, you could believe in the inevitability of Shenzhen to take the probably $3 part Apple has designed, stick it into a little housing with a micro controller, and commoditize “Kinect Minis” within the year. :)

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by TeMPOraL on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:46PM (#15552952)
While I love Shenzhen's attitude to intellectual property, this is not a solution outside hobby market. I doubt people will dare to release a product in clear violation of Apple's patents (or whoever owns them now).
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by derefr on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @07:19PM (#15555132)
My expectation is that the no-name hobbyist products (with no clear company to sue) will come first, people will buy them, and then major manufacturers will see them and want to get the hardware into their own products too, at which point they'll probably get interested in licensing Apple's patents. Which means the resulting branded products won't cost $3, but they won't be $1000 either.

I don't expect Apple would willingly license their patent to their competitors in the mobile space (who, after all, would just want to slap a FaceID-equivalent feature into their own phones); but they'd probably be interested in licensing it to e.g. electronic door-lock companies, or action-camera companies (add a "depth" track to your video), etc.

My guess is that rather than the Kinect, what people will probably be buying 2-5 years from now for "commercially scalable" projects is an LG USB webcam that has Apple's miniaturized sensors embedded, and is using the (by-then-standardized) no-name Shenzhen remake of Apple's face-recognition ML-accelerator core.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by christotty on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:29PM (#15552765)
It is being disputed by Apple, but Bloomberg claims that "$3 part" is what is keeping iPhone X output low.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-apple-iphone/apple-disput...

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by nightski on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:30PM (#15552776)
Not really even close. While two cameras is nice, is definitely not the same as the structured light approach in the Kinect.
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by ansgri on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:36PM (#15552841)
FYI, front camera in X uses structural light, while Kinect 2 uses a more modern time-of-flight (ToF) technology, which delivers better depth resolution.

From https://www.apple.com/iphone-x/:

"Face ID is enabled by the TrueDepth camera and is simple to set up. It projects and analyzes more than 30,000 invisible dots to create a precise depth map of your face."

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by kurthr on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @04:33PM (#15553952)
Note that the depth resolution they are desscribing is 160x160=30,000, which is really standard structured light. Put a 1Mpix camera behind it and you can interpolate ~6 pixels in between to estimate depth/slope.
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by detaro on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:36PM (#15552827)
The iPhone X uses a real depth-sensing system, based on structured light tech from the Kinect, for FaceID.
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by cbhl on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:21PM (#15552659)
Wasn't the Kinect technology acquired by Apple? My impression is the top sensor bar in the iPhone X is essentially a miniaturized Kinect, so we should see more Kinect-like applications now that it fits in your pocket.
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by sorenjan on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @05:06PM (#15554267)
Apple bought Primesense who made the technology behind Kinect 1. That uses structured light just like the iPhone X.

Kinect 2 uses Time of Flight developed, as far as I know, by Microsoft.

https://www.gamasutra.com/blogs/DanielLau/20131127/205820/Th...

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by ansgri on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:33PM (#15552805)
AFAIR, it was acquired by ASUS. Original Kinect was developed by an Israel company Xtion, which now lives as a trademark of ASUS game accessories: https://www.asus.com/3D-Sensor/All-Series/

The core technology (structured light in iPhone X and Kinect 1, ToF in Kinect 2) is rather straightforward (for a computer vision researcher, that is...), it's hardware (embedded CPU, cheap sensors and lasers) that enabled its mass adoption.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by Qworg on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:45PM (#15552939)
Primesense was the source of the structured light technology in the Kinect v1. They were purchased by Apple.

They produced an ASIC that ran the structured light system, as well as a custom grating to produce a very specific light pattern.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by eltoozero on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @06:37PM (#15554909)
> acquired by ASUS. Original Kinect was developed by an Israel company Xtion

Xtion was a Primesense ASUS partnership to bring the tracking technology to the PC.

Xtion was not a separate company but rather an ASUS branded Kinect-like sensor.

Primesense made the sensors for both Kinect and the Xtion.[0]

Primesense was later purchased by Apple in 2013.[1]

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinect

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PrimeSense

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by clarkmoody on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:41PM (#15552899)
We got tons of use out of the ASUS version of Kinect (Xtion PRO) in my research lab. It worked very well and had a smaller form-factor than Kinect.
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by brutus1213 on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:37PM (#15552847)
How does primesense fit into it? I thought primesense was the company acquired by apple?
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by ansgri on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:41PM (#15552902)
Don't know about primesense, I was answering to "Wasn't the Kinect technology acquired by Apple?".
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by chrischen on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @07:34PM (#15555212)
The technology has actually been incorporated into the hololens or windows mixed reality device, which is basically a kinect strapped to your head.

Apple also offers AR kit which is the same concept with similar APIs.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by nsxwolf on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @04:11PM (#15553697)
I don't think the maker community hanging on to their Kinects is going to put a dent in the e-waste impact. People are tossing these things in droves because they are a useless waste of space.
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by andybak on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @07:55PM (#15555315)
Useless unless you want to do motion capture or any one of a bunch of other non-useless tasks.
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by nsxwolf on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @09:47PM (#15555755)
That’s a tiny fraction of total units sold.
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by michaelbuckbee on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:13PM (#15552582)
The one _very_ successful aspect of the Kinect was it's speech recognition capabilities. People saying: "Xbox Play Netflix" - that very much preceded the current boom in what you accurately describe as the hockey puck speakers.

Another much under-appreciated aspect of Kinect was what an absolutely phenomenal video conferencing system it was - using Skype on Xbox was on par with expensive custom systems. Great speakerphone (that audio recognition) and it would resize the focus on the fly to include all the faces in the room (panning around).

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by giobox on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @03:55PM (#15553537)
The tech was extremely impressive, but it always seemed like a classic case of a solution looking for a problem, which to me it's apparent biggest successes as a tool in universities/research groups bore out. Great for Human Computer Interaction type research, everything else not so much it seemed.

At any rate, the idea lives on in Apple's iPhone X in a much more practical application.

> Don't forget, smartwatches originated from a highly successful Kickstarter campaign.

This is a big stretch, in my opinion. I think we'd have worked out that a screen on our wrist with useful info is nice regardless of what happened on Kickstarter, this wasn't exactly an incredible discovery.

There had been countless fitness tracking watches that aren't really all that far removed from the public want from smart watches from Garmin et al long before Pebble tried their thing too. The barrier was arguably getting efficient SoCs that could last a day doing something useful far more than it was anything to do with crowd funding.

> Tech giants are very much capable of generating cash, but are damned by their inability to create gold.

This is getting a bit silly now.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by andrepd on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @05:45PM (#15554561)
>Amazon and Google are caught up in a dumb contest to see who can produce the best hockey-puck-sized speaker that can add items to your shopping list

But you know why it is so, don't you? The allure for an information company of having an always-on, always internet connected, high-sensitivity microphone, running proprietary software doing god knows what, the allure of having such a device in as many homes as possible is only too obvious.

The only thing more shameful than them pushing this garbage is the consumers' willingness to eat it all up.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by PopsiclePete on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @06:42PM (#15554928)
Which is why you buy it, and when not at home, play really loud, awkward and uncomfortable recordings of someone having bad, sweaty, cringe-inducing sex. For hours on end.

If you're into software, you could make it exciting. Perhaps write a scraper to strip the audio off porn clips, mix it up with old Khruschev speeches?

Could be a tactic to fight systems like these - overwhelm them with garbage data.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by SllX on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @08:08PM (#15555370)
Overwhelming with garbage data is definitely something you can do with social network trackers, it's definitely something I engaged in when I was most active on Facebook. That said it seems to me the far better solution, if you actually value your privacy, is to give up the convenience it would offer and simply not let systems like this into your house.

In a fight to protect your privacy, the only way to win is to not willingly give up your data, even if that means not making use of new systems or taking active countermeasures against tracking systems.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by andrepd on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @10:18PM (#15555866)
Overwhelming with garbage data is definitely a good tactice to pollute the nice data they collect. See https://adnauseam.io/
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by microcolonel on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @01:10PM (#15551910)
> ridiculously cheap cost

I think that's the problem, I figure it was meant to increase XBox game licensing money, not turn a direct profit.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by Benjammer on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @01:26PM (#15552085)
Isn't this the backbone of the entire console gaming industry though? Has there ever been a popular console that directly turned a profit through hardware sales? I was under the impression that basically the entire revenue stream comes from game licensing fees from publishers, with hardware as loss leaders across the board.
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by dcole2929 on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @01:34PM (#15552151)
Generally they are sold for a loss to begin with early in the generation. But later iterations usually make money. As a whole, successful consoles, usually can make money for the company producing them. That said both PS3 and Xbox 360 lost money for their respective companies. I believe the Wii and the PS2 however were great financial successes though.
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by jedrek on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @04:35PM (#15553979)
Yeah, but the real money is in licensing.
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by hmschreck on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @01:38PM (#15552186)
Up until the WiiU, Nintendo had sold, if memory serves, every console at a profit.

The issue here is that it's being bought without games. They lose money on the tech, and then don't make it up on the licensing.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by Tyr42 on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @01:33PM (#15552140)
Wii, and in general Nintendo consoles are not sold at a loss.
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by hkmurakami on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @01:48PM (#15552291)
Iirc the Wii sold at a profit because it deliberately used older technology.
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by CaptSpify on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @04:24PM (#15553846)
Weren't schools buying Playstations for a bit because they were cheaper than computers with similar specs?

I swear that was a thing for a while, but I can't find any sources, so I might be mis-remembering

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by xanderstrike on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @04:34PM (#15553976)
Schools and governments were buying up PS3 systems because they could be turned into cheap clusters.

Sony didn't like this, as they were losing money on every PS3, so they disabled the functionality.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by kabdib on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @03:28PM (#15553310)
AFAIK, all of the recent consoles have been profit making on just the hardware alone. Not very much money per unit at first, but none of them shipped as a loss leader.
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by ifhd on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @03:48PM (#15553473)
Wasn't nintendo making money on the Wii pretty much the entire time?
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by ptx on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @03:25PM (#15553294)
> Don't forget, smartwatches originated from a highly successful Kickstarter campaign.

Also don't forget that Sony Ericsson released the MBW-100 smartwatch[1] several years before Kickstarter existed ... so I'm not sure how they could have originated on Kickstarter.

[1] https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=385SISfXUNU

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by homero on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @05:15PM (#15554341)
I bought those watch and loved it, sadly the oled screen died out
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by Pica_soO on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @01:29PM (#15552104)
Its cooperate culture, which allows for nay-Sayers to show the Nay-Emails and meeting-logs as trophy's of successful predictions.

If you want to kill this, you need a cooperate culture, that anonymizes project critic and punishes claims of authorship to critique.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by swang on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @01:44PM (#15552243)
i mean, the amazon echo was a pretty interesting new thing that they created a market for. tthen once they realized people were buying it every big tech company jumped on it to not get behind.

the problem is if google doesn't go into the "speaker with a voice assistant" space, they allow amazon to possibly gain dominance in said space. this is why everyone wants to get in on drone delivery, self-driving cars, vr, etc..

and while "creative", the kinect wasn't a thing microsoft invented either. in fact, primesense, the company that created the original kinect got bought out by apple, and basically that tech is in the iphone x now.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by ifhd on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @03:50PM (#15553491)
But at some point shouldn't someone stop to question how valuable the space really is?

I suppose at least the data is worth a lot towards better voice control efforts.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by swang on Thursday October 26, 2017 @12:18PM (#15560269)
a device that's sitting in the home is priceless to a company. not even for the data they get. it's because the next device they buy they'll think of devices that will work with the one they've already bought. have an amazon echo? they'll probably buy speakers that support alexa, car integrations with alexa, etc..
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by brandall10 on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @06:13PM (#15554765)
I used to work at a telemedicine company that uses the Kinect as the primary input for their core product, to enable at-home physical therapy.

Before I left we were doing the work to transition to v2 and were well aware that it was not an earner for MS, but I think the prevailing notion was this was too important to the research community and MS was in it for the long game hoping for it to take off in other industries.

In any case, I reached out to a friend there who tells me they were aware of this eventuality for some time and have another option (smaller, more accurate) that they are in the process of migrating to.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by LMYahooTFY on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @01:24PM (#15552059)
Tech giants don't invent cool things, they buy cool inventions that might become trendy, and dump them if they don't.

Their dominance seems to have further pervaded the notion that utility and viability = profitability within this system.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by dcole2929 on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @01:38PM (#15552188)
Having invented something is only useful if you're actually able to get that something into peoples hands. As much as I hate how people drool over overpriced Apple hardware, they've done a great job putting greenfield tech into the hands of consumers. Microsoft conversely actually does "invent" a lot of cool things, but for the last 20 years they've been pretty bad at turning those cool things into successful things
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by dwighttk on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @04:08PM (#15553667)
"hockey puck that can add things to your shopping list" sounds a whole lot better than "always-on video phone" which they are also competing to put on your shelf.

(and the hockey puck sounds pretty... pretty dumb)

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by donavanm on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @02:50PM (#15553000)
> Amazon and Google are caught up in a dumb contest to see who can produce the best hockey-puck-sized speaker that can add items to your shopping list.

Youre either misrepresenting or woefully misunderstanding this. The echo et al are no more about selling a $50 shopping list speaker than when Amazon/Barnes and Noble/Sony were going at over $50 e-ink readers.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by tengbretson on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @07:19PM (#15555134)
I think most of your analysis is spot-on, however.

> Don't forget, smartwatches originated from a highly successful Kickstarter campaign.

Smartwatches have been a techno-futurist pie-in-the-sky product for almost 50 years now.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by caseyohara on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @07:23PM (#15555150)
Yes but it was proven to be commercially viable on Kickstarter
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by giobox on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @09:07PM (#15555577)
Given the fate of Pebble just ~3 years or so after launching their original watch, I’d question that it proved the commercial viability!

Apple outselling Rolex in 2016 (the same year Pebble died) arguably did far more to cement this, and in a significantly shorter period of time.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by ApolloFortyNine on Thursday October 26, 2017 @11:05AM (#15559459)
Rolex is a luxury watch maker. The cheapest Rolex you can get is more than 5000 dollars. To say they market to different audiences would be an extreme understatement.
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by giobox on Thursday October 26, 2017 @11:14AM (#15559568)
While this is true, it in no way makes my point any less valid.

Pebble went out of business, the very opposite of commercial viability.

Apple went on to outsell a 4.7 billion dollar player in close to a year. If the choice of Rolex offends, insert the name of more or less any other watch manufacturer you like, the comparison usually stands, or at the least shows the exceptional sales the line achieved in a short period of time. If anything, it's even more impressive when one compares to 2016 revenues of cheaper watch makers such as Seiko, Fossil, Citizen etc.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by awalton on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @01:43PM (#15552240)
It's not really a shame. The Kinect is out of date and never caught on, and there are much better newer sensors that play the same role for researchers and experimenters. If you'd buy a Kinect for hacking, you'd buy Intel's Euclid or another RealSense camera, e.g.

If anything, it's surprising Microsoft kept building and subsidizing these things for as long as they did.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by ipsum2 on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @01:48PM (#15552297)
Except the Intel RealSense line-up does maybe 1/4th of what the Kinect does, and Intel is known for killing off pet projects quickly (see IoT)
Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by jcrites on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @08:04PM (#15555349)
> Amazon and Google are caught up in a dumb contest to see who can produce the best hockey-puck-sized speaker [...]. As overwhelmingly large as tech giants like Amazon, Google, Microsoft, and Apple are, they seem mostly resigned to following trends, as opposed to creating new ones.

I don't think you're giving these companies adequate credit for their innovation. :-)

It's worth remembering that the Echo, a voice-powered home assistant that can be spoken to anywhere in a room ("far-field" voice recognition), was novel when Amazon introduced it. Similarly, the digital e-ink reader was novel when Amazon launched the Kindle. Two other concepts that seem novel to me are the Amazon Go stores (checkout-less shopping) and Amazon Prime Air (automated drone delivery), both works-in-progress. Consider Amazon Web Services (est. 2006) and the cloud services boom.

Amazon created the first devices/services that resulted in the trends for home assistants and ebook readers (etc.), so I don't think it's fair to name them as "mostly resigned to following trends".

Similarly, although Google seems to have followed Amazon's lead with respect to home assistants, it's certainly innovating in the capabilities of their service, and in other areas. Google's voice assistant has access to incredible amounts of information, presumably powered by Google's search and understanding of questions and context. While both Alexa and Google can answer "When was Abraham Lincoln born?", only Google can more difficult questions like "Who was the second CEO of Microsoft?" (per my test today). However, none of the offerings can yet answer "When was the second CEO of Microsoft born?" Boiling the situation down to shopping lists ignores the capability variation in products.

Of course every company will follow trends to some extent, since to do otherwise is to give up a potential market segment. Companies don't exist per se to create trends; they exist to capitalize on business opportunities. A lot of the big tech companies have expertise they can leverage to enter new tech segments, or have related services that they can integrate. E.g., if Apple has Siri and the Apple TV, then a home assistant may still be a sensible play, even if Amazon did it first.

Trying to create a new trend is risky and requires large investment. For every hit like the Echo, you might strike out like the Fire Phone; for every hit like the Pixel phone you might strike out like Google Glass or have moderate success like Kinect. It makes sense for companies to create offerings when there's a proven model to follow in addition to investing in new innovative ideas.

If following is the only thing a company does, then you might judge them as not being innovative; but before you do that, you should look at the innovative things they're trying too, such as the Glass, the Kindle, the Kinect. Apple has been incredibly innovative in their phone design and security features: the first to offer a touch-based phone with no keyboard (as far as I know); the first to offer fingerprint-based unlock instead of PIN code unlock (so convenient!), and now face-recognition based unlock; Siri may have been the first useful voice assistant. Apple's security and privacy has been industry-leading, e.g. Secure Enclave. Apple CarPlay is a great experience and surpasses every other car integration system I've used.

I believe that the reason all of the named companies have continued to be successful and remain market leaders is because they are innovating in products and services.

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by ifhd on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @03:47PM (#15553456)
> they seem mostly resigned to following trends

The speaker thing was Amazon creating a trend (or fad if you really see it that way).

Re:Microsoft Has Stopped Manufacturing The Kinect by sova on Wednesday October 25, 2017 @01:42PM (#15552227)
Very nicely said, your last sentence expertly crafted.