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Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by dx034 on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @09:46AM (#15441695)
A solution is to only ask for the password when absolutely necessary. I still don't understand why I need to enter a password (or use touchID) to download a free app. Shouldn't it be enough to login when I want to buy something for the first time in-app? AFAIK that's how android handles it.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by mcphage on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @09:51AM (#15441740)
You need to enter your password when downloading a free app so that if someone finds your phone they can’t install a malicious hacking or key logging app on to your phone. Installing apps is a security risk, not just a financial issue.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by mikeash on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:17AM (#15441939)
If someone finds my phone, it'll be locked and they won't be able to install anything. If they can unlock the phone then it's already game over for me.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by jedberg on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:59AM (#15442328)
You’re using the phone and set it down, it hasn’t auto locked yet.

They have your lock screen password but not your iTunes password.

You thought they were a friend and let them borrow your unlocked phone.

Even for a security conscience person there are plenty of situations where someone could get your unlocked phone.

And most people aren’t security conscience. It’s to protect them, not you.

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by drampelt on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @12:16PM (#15442997)
I get that prompting for an iCloud password again adds an extra step, but if someone has your unlocked phone they probably have enough (email, SMS, phone) to take over your iCloud account anyway.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by matwood on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @05:24PM (#15445429)
> You’re using the phone and set it down, it hasn’t auto locked yet.

I'm not even security conscious, and always lock my phone before setting it down. I think it started because turning off the screen as soon as you're done saved significant battery life on the phones prior to them knowing if they were laying flat.

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by mikestew on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:50AM (#15442245)
If someone finds my phone, it'll be locked and they won't be able to install anything

“Does your phone have a calculator? Mine’s in my bag and I need to add these values real quick.”

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by earenndil on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @11:11AM (#15442436)
On ios, you can get to the calculator while the system is still locked.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by bighi on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @01:18PM (#15443547)
It was just an example.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by blahshaw on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @07:01PM (#15446017)
You could use Guided Access to allow them to use the calculator without leaving the app.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by zimpenfish on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:55AM (#15442297)
"Then get yours out, you ain't touching my phone."
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by bighi on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @01:21PM (#15443574)
Easy to say when defending your point on Hacker News. We're already talking about security, and about someone with malicious intent having access to your phone. In the context of this conversation, you're already in simulated high security mental mode.

It's completely different when you're relaxed (maybe having some fun), and the person asking for your phone is someone you know.

In a relaxed social environment, you will probably not be that rude to someone you know.

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by PascLeRasc on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @05:38PM (#15445528)
I think the person you're responding to isn't familiar with relaxed social environments. Seriously, it's so hard to find empathy in security research.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by zimpenfish on Friday October 13, 2017 @03:03AM (#15463728)
> Seriously, it's so hard to find empathy in security research.

If I ever get a job in that sphere, I'll let you know.

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by zimpenfish on Friday October 13, 2017 @03:02AM (#15463727)
> In a relaxed social environment, you will probably not be that rude

Perhaps I might phrase it slightly differently depending on who it was but the sentiment would be exactly the same[1] - a blanket refusal.

[1] Nowadays - back when I was on the Nokias or SE phones, sure, use my phone as a calculator, go nuts.

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by vortico on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:56AM (#15442299)
"Yes, but no, use your own."

No one has touched my phone while it was unlocked since middle school.

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by cisanti on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @01:11PM (#15443484)
Most of the people have girlfriends and friends.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by vortico on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @02:15PM (#15444034)
Believe me, it is possible to have a security-conscious, trustworthy girlfriend who respects your privacy if you do the same to her.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by rconti on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @02:46PM (#15444299)
And I've never given my wife a single password or passcode or PIN. But she can still use my damn phone or computer if she wants, as can my friends. Worst case scenario, I get a 55 gallon drum of lube ordered on my Amazon account.

For me, the principle is I never divulge credentials, but I trust people I know. Therefore I see no conflict with adding my wife's fingerprint to TouchID, for example. (though it's not worth the effort of re-enrolling her every time I get a new device or a new screen or reinstall from scratch, so that's long lost).

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by dx034 on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:54AM (#15442283)
If someone has access to my unlocked phone, there are worse things they can do than installing a malicious app. First of all, apps are generally tested before they appear in the store. I don't think attackers would install an app if they can just steal the data directly.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by e12e on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @12:33PM (#15443132)
If the data they want is a recording of your next client meeting, installing an app (possibly one that exploits a not-yet well-known bug, say a root exploit that only works from an app) might be one way to do it.

Remember [1]? Imagine an exploit not targeting safari, but somehow vulnerable via an app, a la [2].

[1] https://citizenlab.ca/2016/08/million-dollar-dissident-iphon...

[2] http://iphone.appleinsider.com/articles/16/08/29/apple-brief...

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by ClassyJacket on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:05AM (#15441843)
Ios apps cannot log keys at all. They're sandboxed.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by ascagnel_ on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:17AM (#15441940)
Not entirely -- keyboard apps can intercept keystrokes and send them to a remote server.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by adamlett on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:31AM (#15442074)
As far as I can remember, 3rd party keyboards are not allowed for password prompts.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by yellow_postit on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:54AM (#15442279)
Only when those fields are appropriately annotated, which anecdotally I've run into plenty that are not tagged correctly.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by jsjohnst on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:25AM (#15442001)
Keyboard apps explicitly have to ask for “full access” and you need to opt-in. Also, apps can block 3rd party keyboards, not sure how many secure / banking apps do that though.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by emmelaich on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @12:53PM (#15443325)
What's stopping an app from imitating the keyboard?

Fundamentally, we're talking about imbuing meaning to patterns of light on a screen. And apps can write on any part of the screen. I suspect the only way to battle this is to have a separate screen which is controllable only from the system.

And even many people will fall for password prompts in the main screen.

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by jsjohnst on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @08:02PM (#15446257)
> What's stopping an app from imitating the keyboard?

What is the end goal of that? If you have control of the screen (aka are the foreground app), why would you need to emulate the keyboard? If you aren't the foreground app, then you aren't going to be able to render a keyboard on the screen (on iOS anyway).

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by emmelaich on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:04PM (#15446804)
> why would you need to emulate the keyboard?

to avoid the OS restrictions on which keyboard app is used for passwords.

> you aren't going to be able to render a keyboard on the screen (on iOS anyway).

Are you saying it is impossible to render the pixels and accept screen touches in a way that it acts and looks like a "real" keyboard app?

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by jsjohnst on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:26PM (#15446882)
Dude. Stop and think for a moment. If I am able to render anything on the screen at all, it means I’m the foreground app on iOS. I don’t need to fake being a keyboard, because I can use the real thing Apple provides. So no, I’m not saying it’s impossible if I can render anything at all, what I’m saying is that outside being the foreground app, rendering anything on screen is impossible outside very tightly controlled interfaces (like custom keyboards that this thread was about before you side tracked it).
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by emmelaich on Wednesday October 11, 2017 @03:18AM (#15447846)
I am only talking about what the app does when it is the foreground app. I should have addressed that in the previous comment.

It's not a sidetrack, because that's what the actual article is about.

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by jsjohnst on Wednesday October 11, 2017 @01:22PM (#15451416)
So if you really were talking about the foreground app and not just covering now, then why does one need to make a fake keyboard!? That makes no sense at all.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by emmelaich on Wednesday October 11, 2017 @06:46PM (#15454214)
I was just making a more fundamental point (see my middle para) and decided to hang it off this thread rather than making it top level.

I didn't have a specific scenario in mind.

But to address your question ...

Say a user is reassured because he knows that only approved keyboard apps can accept passwords.

This malware app pops up a password prompt AND some images and input buttons that looks very much like a 'proper' keyboard.

The user enters his password.

Game over.

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by UnoriginalGuy on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:11AM (#15441887)
It is free in cost, not in terms of your privacy.

For example let's say you handed your phone to your kid, they downloaded a free app, gave that app your entire contact list, and then that app spammed everyone you know? For the sake of example let's call that app LinkedIn.

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by jsjohnst on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:27AM (#15442026)
> For the sake of example let's call that app LinkedIn.

It’s bad that LinkedIn has such a reputation that I automatically assume they likely did just as you alluded that they might’ve done.

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by ballenf on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:37AM (#15442128)
http://addconnectionssettlement.com

They were pioneers in the field!

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by mikeash on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @03:20PM (#15444575)
Let's say you already had LinkedIn installed without contact permissions, and your kid flipped that switch and spammed everyone you knew?

Maybe Apple should require authentication to grant those permissions.... Of course, then we're back to the problem of password fatigue.

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by e12e on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @12:36PM (#15443153)
That, or logged your gps location to a Web service? Maybe along with wlan ssids and Mac addresses?
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by zeitg3ist on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @09:49AM (#15441726)
There's a toggle (in Settings > App Store, iirc) to ask for auth only on non-free (as in beer) apps/IAPs.

Edit: apparently there's no toggle if you have Touch ID enabled. You have to disable it for the App Store for this to work, but I think Touch ID is fast enough anyway...

Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by vortico on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @09:51AM (#15441736)
True, but those savvy enough to find that will probably notice when an application requests a password artificially.
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by astura on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:32AM (#15442091)
What if the phone/iPad belongs to your kid and you don't want her to be installing apps without vetting them beforehand? That's a legitimate reason to ask for prompts. Should be a setting though (if it's not already)
Re:iOS Privacy: Easily get a user's Apple ID password, just ... by TheCoreh on Tuesday October 10, 2017 @10:39AM (#15442152)
Then you can enable parental controls