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Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by tryingagainbro on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @01:57AM (#15336517)
Why doesn't Apple open their checkbook and start their own search engine. I mean, really open it. It's not like they don't have the money and it's not like this is a logical step.

They can't start small, meaning the need users to train the SE? What else can it be. Of course they can't put live a horrible version...

Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by xRahul on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @02:02AM (#15336532)
Have you seen their attempts with Maps. I can't imagine how the search would go. They already have so much bad press with Maps, I'm sure they don't want more added to it.
Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by toephu2 on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @02:52AM (#15336710)
Have you used Apple Maps recently? It's not that bad anymore. Just because they had bad press about it 5 years ago doesn't mean the product is still stuck in 2012.
Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by richardknop on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @04:46AM (#15337152)
From time to time I still accidentally open Apple Maps on my iPhone while searching for some place (tube station, restaurant, store) and almost immediately close it and use Google Maps. Apple Maps is still much worse, the UX is worse and it's much more difficult for me to find things on the map.

Especially tube stations are much more visible on Google maps and I often use tube stations for orientation. On Apple Maps stations are very light color and hard to spot. The same with other landmarks.

I don't understand why they don't do some user testing and find out what UX practices are the reason why Google Maps is so much easier to use and replicate that. They've had years do do this.

Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by chewz on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @07:41AM (#15337779)
From my experience it depends a lot on the country. Apple Maps was for me excellent in China or Japan and terrible in Thailand for example.

Both Google and Apple buy basic maps info from third party and the quality depends a lot on the deal they get. For example it is not possible to save area offline in Google Maps for Thailand due to some legal issues I guess.

Google has much more user engagement and stars and recommendations give Google a big advantage.

Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by mercutio2 on Wednesday September 27, 2017 @01:43AM (#15345196)
Different strokes for different folks.

I occasionally open Google Maps because I want my search results to include only things on the same continent as the one I live on, and I literally cannot figure out how to get the damn app to give me directions, then I give up and go back to Apple Maps, because while search is filled with nonsense, once I’ve found my destination, it’s non-search UX doesn’t make me want to scream in irritation and confusion.

Possibly worth noting, if you’ve never actually used Apple Maps, you might not know that if you change your routing to transit from the default (car), it will change its POI highlights to emphasize transit stops at the expense of businesses. Might improve your experience, if you felt like giving it a shot.

Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by thestephen on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @04:45AM (#15337150)
While your sentiment probably holds correct in some places, it really is "that bad" in some places that aren't the US or the UK. Many countries still don't have transit, and my apartment (in Stockholm!) doesn't even exist in Apple Maps.
Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by wrboyce on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @05:12AM (#15337241)
Have you ever submitted an error report? I moved house just over 12 months ago and there were some errors on both Apple and Google maps. I submitted error reports to both providers, Apple had it fixed in around 48 hours whereas Google have still not fixed it. At least one of the errors is extremely easy to verify and fix.
Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by macintux on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @09:49AM (#15338568)
I've had mixed results. I report errors to Apple fairly regularly, and while some are fixed quickly, some are seemingly ignored forever.

Even in the US, there are a lot of missing POI on Apple Maps. Parks in particular are woefully underrepresented.

Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by SirHound on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @04:33AM (#15337109)
"Not that bad" doesn't really stand up to Google Maps, which is excellent.
Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by tryingagainbro on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @02:58AM (#15336742)
Great point. Yeah they got bad press, but are no longer hostage to Google Maps and have an acceptable maps product that gets improved as time goes by. If Tim Cook decides that $10billion in acquisition /hiring is needed for seearch, I'm sure he'll have it in a few hours from the board.

Apple might release the search engine to just a xx% at a time and rotate to see /get data to tweak it (if it's feasible) or make Apple Search default but give option to switch for a few years.

Search is like maps, a core product.

Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by abritinthebay on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @02:58AM (#15336740)
I've been preferring Maps to Google's utterly user-hostile experience for quite a while now.

It's odd - Google does have a great mapping product: it's called Waze. That's great on a phone! But Google Maps? Christ... it's so bad. All of their iPhone apps are downright user-hostile but Maps is the worst.

Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by Hoasi on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @03:41AM (#15336885)
> Google does have a great mapping product: it's called Waze.

Waze is an independent company.

Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by Nilef on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @04:19AM (#15337040)
Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by skinnymuch on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @09:29AM (#15338416)
You mean after Google bought them four years ago? They had independence to a degree and were allowed to stay in Israel for 3 years after signing an agreement, but that time has passed. At this point they are completely under Google.
Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by notsuretho on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @03:27AM (#15336845)
Had they started the search offering with the maps offering, I think they’d be on par with Bing for 95% of searches.

That said, there’s a lot to be said for concentrating on strengths.

Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by lucaspiller on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @02:50AM (#15336695)
Is this because Apple is so bad, or just that Google is so much better than everyone else? I’ve never used physical satnav units, but how do they compare to Apples offerings?
Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by DaiPlusPlus on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @03:44AM (#15336899)
The main aftermarket satnav products are from Garmin and TomTom - and in-car systems tend to either license their tech or use NavTeq/HERE. Even Apple Maps bootstrapped off TomTom and still largely just aggregates from other sources.

I use iOS, but I very much prefer using Google Maps to Apple Maps: mainly for the Google Account integration, and it feels like they provide more information (shop/restaurant hours, street-view) even though Apple Maps provides almost the same level of detail. On my desktop I use a Google Maps and the map design is the same so familiarity helps, whereas Apple Maps is strictly off-limits for Windows and Linux users.

Given that Apple and Microsoft are no-longer competing in the mobile space (MSFT finally admitted Windows Phone's failure earlier this year) maybe we can see Apple choosing MSFT/Bing services over Google? Apple could save a lot of money by switching to Bing Maps, and with a re-skin no-one would notice!

Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by chrisper on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @04:50AM (#15337163)
HERE has their own app, too. It is not bad, but sadly not quite Google Maps level.

https://wego.here.com

https://here.com/en/products-services/consumer-app/here-wego...

Btw. HERE is owned by Audi and some other car companies.

Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by dpcx on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @08:28AM (#15337999)
It also has an offline feature that most other mobile map services would kill for.
Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by izacus on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @04:30AM (#15337094)
It varies by location a lot, but here in central Europe, Garmin units (including builtin satnav) tend to be more accurate and carry more car-relevant information (speed limits, etc.) than Apple Maps.

Same goes for Google Maps as well, which still don't have speed limits available which is kind of critical when driving through unfamiliar streets.

Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by amelius on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @03:20AM (#15336816)
They don't have to brand it "Apple" initially.
Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by bigbugbag on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @04:13AM (#15337018)
Probably because it costs a serious amount of money to make, requires a very expensive infrastructure with high maintenance cost and does not bring in any serious money.

Also they probably lack the skill to do this.

Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by tryingagainbro on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @06:28AM (#15337501)
>>it costs a serious amount of money to make, requires a very expensive infrastructure with high maintenance cost...Also they probably lack the skill to do this.... "

all solved by money, virtually unlimited money as Apple makes $45+ billion in income each year and has some $200+ billion in bank. They can bid against google for google's top search engineers and Google will run out of money first..

There is a lot of money in search, maybe not as much as Google is making now (90% of their page is ads) but still a lot money, more than enough to make the investment worthwhile.

Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by robryan on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @05:01AM (#15337207)
Doesn't Microsoft also basically have a bottomless checkbook to spend on search? And Bing can't compete.
Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by skinnymuch on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @09:28AM (#15338410)
OP seems to be saying to throw a ton of money at search. Microsoft spent billions in losses over the past decade. Profitable now, but market share isn't too strong. And a lot of the market share gains are from Yahoo anyway.

So I agree. I don't see how Yahoo double or triple spending what Bing spent helping. Especially if they start out in 2017. On the other hand, if they work with Bing and have some sort of search engine Joint Venture with money and smarts poured in, maybe they can put a dent into search. I doubt Apple who care about profits so much would be down for such an endeavor.

Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by romanovcode on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @08:06AM (#15337875)
I think MS just does not care too much about Bing anymore, it's all about Azure nowadays.
Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by skinnymuch on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @09:25AM (#15338398)
They've tried hard with Bing for so many years now. It's also profitable. They re-did their Yahoo deal a few years ago too. They care about Bing it seems, but it's clear they can't make much headway.
Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by macintux on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @09:50AM (#15338582)
Sacrifice billions a year from Google to spend billions a year trying to compete, for zero additional revenue? That's a tough sales pitch.
Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by tryingagainbro on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @01:45PM (#15340938)
Why zero additional revenue? Once it get good enough non-Apple device users will use it.
Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by macintux on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @02:14PM (#15341203)
You're right: not zero, but I suspect just a rounding error on their books. Apple's ability to monetize ads, particularly given their stance on privacy, is suspect, and I'm not sure how else one would make money with a search engine.
Re:Apple switches from Bing to Google for Siri web search on... by iaml on Tuesday September 26, 2017 @04:51AM (#15337170)
They'd rather stick to building devices.