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Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by intopieces on Monday August 14, 2017 @02:23PM (#15011095)
>On the other hand, Sacconaghi said that Apple's iOS devices contribute about 50 percent to Google's mobile search revenue, which means Google might be too afraid to walk away from its licensing deal with Apple.

50%? Am I reading this right, that iOS makes up 50% of Google's mobile search revenue? IDC reports that Android made up 85% of the mobile OS market share in Q1-17, while iOS makes up 14.6%. How could iOS be contributing half of the mobile search revenue when Google's own OS is on most of the mobile devices in the world?

[0]https://www.idc.com/promo/smartphone-market-share/os

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by genericpseudo on Monday August 14, 2017 @05:45PM (#15013273)
This observation is the single most important thing you need to know if you work in consumer mobile.

To first order, iPhone owners spend money. Android owners don't. This is because your average iPhone user cares more about what phone they're using and simply uses it more.

This is a first-order approximation. The small percentage of people who actively choose Android do spend and do use their phones a lot, and by goodness are they vocal, but the more useful way of thinking about the market is not two-segment, it's three-segment:

* Vast majority: don't care about their phone OS, won't pay for anything

* Significant minority: want iPhones, will most probably spend money

* Significant but even smaller minority: actively want Android, will buy premium Android phones (e.g. Nexus, high-end Samsung), will either spend money or, with roughly equal likelihood, jailbreak and pirate everything in sight.

From this perspective iOS remains the most compelling mobile OS to target. Additionally, iOS users – on average - use apps more and for longer, though again that effect is small when you control for the kind of Android devices people go out of their way to choose.

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by Symbiote on Monday August 14, 2017 @06:41PM (#15013682)
> From this perspective iOS remains the most compelling mobile OS to target.

That fine if you're trying to make money, but it still annoys me when something like a government or non-profit targets iPhone first.

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by genericpseudo on Monday August 14, 2017 @06:57PM (#15013781)
Absolutely, yes. Your moral argument there is pretty undeniable; I'm speaking purely to propensity-to-spend and that's a pretty narrow lens.

In fact, I'd say "target the web" if you're going for maximum accessibility and you're not driven by commercial factors, though that doesn't work for every app and the usability/discoverability issues can be real. Favoring any commercial platform as a government is a very uncomfortable place to be.

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by klodolph on Monday August 14, 2017 @07:25PM (#15013945)
Yes, that's annoying, but Android development is more expensive.
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by caf on Monday August 14, 2017 @09:35PM (#15014632)
If the first segment won't pay for anything, and 50% of Google's mobile revenue comes from iOS products, that implies that the second and third segments must be of roughly equal size?
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by genericpseudo on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @03:23PM (#15021466)
It's even more dramatic than that. Google make money on advertising, not direct sales, so what you're saying is "the (usage * advertiser desirability) from the entirety of group 2 is roughly equal to groups 1 and 3 combined".

Given group 1 is many times bigger than group 2, that's a very strong statement, but it's borne out in all the data I've ever seen, both public and private.

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by Naritai on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @01:07AM (#15015654)
roughly equal _spend_, perhaps, but not size (since by 'size' I assume you mean # of users)
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by lisardo on Monday August 14, 2017 @08:15PM (#15014260)
This is a great insight, thank you! Do you have some source of information to dig further?
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by swiley on Monday August 14, 2017 @06:00PM (#15013400)
>To first order, iPhone owners spend money. Android owners don't. This is because your average iPhone user cares more about what phone they're using and simply uses it more.

More like, is willing to spend $700 on a phone.

The problem with android is that even the "high end" android phones (in the US anyway) are still just wrappers around the snapdragon 8xx SOCs. They're all exactly the same and feel almost as closed as the iphone.

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by genericpseudo on Monday August 14, 2017 @06:55PM (#15013765)
Turns out paying $700 is a pretty good proxy for "caring", though!
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by feld on Monday August 14, 2017 @07:42PM (#15014054)
Can you even get an iPhone for $700 anymore? When I got the 6S (not plus) with 128GB memory for myself and my wife they were $1100 each I think?
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by willhslade on Monday August 14, 2017 @10:21PM (#15014820)
They still sell iPhone SEs for under $500, although that's debatable about whether it's an actual iPhone or not.
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by 1123581321 on Monday August 14, 2017 @08:10PM (#15014237)
The 128GB 6S was $849 USD. 64 was $750 and 16 was $650.
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by feld on Monday August 21, 2017 @12:41PM (#15065791)
You have to include Applecare+ or you're buying a phone without a warranty. That's another $150 i think and then tax
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by 1123581321 on Monday August 21, 2017 @07:46PM (#15068707)
When people compare phone prices, they don't count extended warranties in the listed price.

iPhones have a warranty at list price; AppleCare extends it and increases the scope of service.

I do agree that anyone who plans on purchasing an extended warranty for any product research it ahead of time so the total purchase price fits into their budget, though, and the same goes for sales taxes.

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by danmaz74 on Monday August 14, 2017 @06:28PM (#15013609)
This is because your average iPhone user cares more about what phone they're using and simply uses it more >>> has more money

FTFY

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by genericpseudo on Monday August 14, 2017 @06:53PM (#15013753)
More "chooses to spend what money they have on a phone" plus "has the money to spend", which is almost but not quite what you're saying. I know some very rich people with whatever Android device the network gave them. They just don't care that much.
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by AndrewKemendo on Monday August 14, 2017 @03:56PM (#15012231)
How could iOS be contributing half of the mobile search revenue when Google's own OS is on most of the mobile devices in the world?

Because the users who buy things on mobile overwhelmingly use iPhones. All the money to be made is there.

I spoke with Tencent a month ago and they said over half of their users (across wechat/QQ etc...) are on iOS. That was a surprise to me as I thought Android phones completely dominated the Chinese market.

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by sah2ed on Monday August 14, 2017 @04:17PM (#15012435)
> That was a surprise to me as I thought Android phones completely dominated the Chinese market.

Likely that Android does dominate the Chinese market like the rest of the world.

I think a better way to view it is to segment the mobile device market into 3: high, middle and low end; Apple dominates the high-end market segment. iPhones are still largely considered a status symbol in China.

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by zwily on Monday August 14, 2017 @06:55PM (#15013767)
That doesn't explain why half of Tencent's users use iPhone. Some huge % of Chinese phones must have a Tencent app installed.
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by seanmcdirmid on Monday August 14, 2017 @09:21PM (#15014582)
I'm sure for QQ that isn't true since those users are much more low end. WeChat maybe....but I still find it a bit of a stretch. Maybe they meant half of their revenue rather than market share?
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by nl on Monday August 14, 2017 @05:46PM (#15013294)
Except Google is generally paid per click or per display (Doubleclick banners).

It's possible iOS users use their phones more, or some variation on that.

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by whiddershins on Monday August 14, 2017 @06:14PM (#15013507)
It's more nuanced than that. The per click and per display prices are tied to user behavior.
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by victor106 on Monday August 14, 2017 @02:29PM (#15011158)
Market Share does not represent Usage Share. It is a known fact that even though the market share of Android is more than iOS is used much more than Android and generate more quality earnings than Android. All app developers develop iOS first and make a disproportionate percentage of revenue on iOS than any other mobile platform
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by intopieces on Monday August 14, 2017 @02:41PM (#15011287)
Can you describe what more quality earnings means? Do you have a source for the breakdown of particular earnings (i.e., is this simply ad-clickthrough, or is there some dimension I'm not aware of?)

I find this very interesting, not that the earnings are so high on Apple, but that Google could be failing so miserably to earn mobile search revenue on their own platform. I feel like there's an accounting error somewhere.

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by df388dfsa8f9 on Monday August 14, 2017 @02:53PM (#15011448)
Same effect is seen in browsers, it is not uncommon for Safari users to have 50-100% higher conversion than the rest. The device choice ends up capturing different demographics (i.e. people who buy iPhones have more money to spend).

Some first-hand reports:

http://blog.monumentvalleygame.com/blog/2015/1/15/monument-v...

http://www.winterworks.de/bloo-kid-2-the-definitive-revenue-...

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by sah2ed on Monday August 14, 2017 @04:09PM (#15012362)
Exactly. iPhone owners in general have higher disposable income relative to Android owners.

In fact, I was about to link to Monument Valley's numbers.

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by nrhk on Monday August 14, 2017 @03:51PM (#15012188)
Apple's a margin business, not market share. They might not capture the entire pie but their portion of it is a lot more willing to spend.
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by dvdhnt on Monday August 14, 2017 @02:33PM (#15011212)
I don't have stats to give you a firm answer, but if I were going to research this subject, I'd consider the fact that Android devices dominate developing countries. Advertisers in those countries probably can't afford large marketing budgets so their value per view may be significantly lower. Additionally, I'd argue that they probably have less free time and less data/slower speeds making them less likely to spend time grinding out Google searches like Americans, Brits, etc.

Again, not stating facts, just hypothesis.

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by bhnmmhmd on Monday August 14, 2017 @02:48PM (#15011380)
> DC reports that Android made up 85% of the mobile OS market share in Q1-17, while iOS makes up 14.6%.

Yes, but Android has targetted mostly under-developed countries (sorry if this term seems offensive) and ordinary people (as opposed to iOS which targets rich people). Consequently, many Android users don't have decent devices for internet surfing and even if they had, they don't have permanent access to cheap fast internet.

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by mgiannopoulos on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @04:10AM (#15016362)
Or don't use their phone to search/buy stuff. Anecdote: both my parents in their 70s have Android phones (because they were cheaper). They make calls, use Facebook and take photos. They have no idea what Google is or how to buy stuff.
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by tyingq on Monday August 14, 2017 @03:21PM (#15011836)
Comscore measures by traffic, and they have iOS as 44.6% of mobile share.

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/comscore-reports-feb...

That's not too far off 50 percent.

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by johnsmith21006 on Monday August 14, 2017 @05:30PM (#15013121)
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by bdcravens on Monday August 14, 2017 @06:36PM (#15013656)
No, that's worldwide usage of operating systems, which includes desktops. Also, the article parent linked to was for US; your graphic includes third-world countries which are more likely to use Android, and very unlikely to spend money.
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by ashark on Monday August 14, 2017 @04:58PM (#15012821)
Lots of Android devices are sold.

The average time each user spends using their Android device(s), and those users' average affluence, is so incredibly low that they still only manage to make up 50% of Google's ad revenue on mobile.

iOS users are way more likely to be (relatively) wealthy, and they tend to use their devices more (if you've suffered through using anything other than a top-end Android device from the last couple of OS versions, you can guess what one of several reasons for this may be).

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by johnsmith21006 on Monday August 14, 2017 @05:29PM (#15013114)
This is not true and easy to see with Internet usage. See how iOS is flat and Android keeps growing.

https://tctechcrunch2011.files.wordpress.com/2017/04/statcou...

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by bdcravens on Monday August 14, 2017 @06:34PM (#15013645)
You simply linked to a chart showing market share for mobile and desktop operating systems. None of that addresses the comment you were replying to, which speaks to behavior of those users.
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by braythwayt on Monday August 14, 2017 @02:30PM (#15011170)
That is an interesting question.

I've also read about other counter-intuitive revenue statistics. Apple's share of hardware revenues is way higher than its share of unit sales. And I've read that for many app makers, their revenues on iOS is higher than their revenues on Android, despite there being a larger number of Android units in the market.

If the latter claim is true, it could be that iOS users as a whole spend more money than Android users as a whole. That could filter through to Google in the form of iOS users being more inclined to click on higher-value ads.

Note: The above is speculative, I recall reading these claims on Daring Fireball, but that is not evidence.

Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by ben174 on Monday August 14, 2017 @03:43PM (#15012088)
Possibly due to far fewer ad blockers on iOS devices compared to desktop and Android. Also, the demographic of iOS users might be more likely to buy things. Just speculating.
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by celeritascelery on Monday August 14, 2017 @04:08PM (#15012347)
Google has banned ad blockers from its App Store, so I would say iOS actually has much higher ad block usage.
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by intopieces on Tuesday August 15, 2017 @03:35PM (#15021573)
No snark: I didnt realize that Google even banned apps from the Google Play Store. Is the ban on adblockers effective? I associate Android use with a free-for-all in terms of apps.
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by yardie on Monday August 14, 2017 @03:00PM (#15011526)
I've traveled to many developing countries where mobile data is not free except if you use it through Facebook. So if you're in the cheap Android user demographic you could almost certainly not use Google outside of what comes preinstalled.
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by arsa on Monday August 14, 2017 @04:11PM (#15012375)
This report shows phones. There are many ipad's, and i'd bet that purchasing (or clicking ad links) on ipad is much easier than on iphone.
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by krisroadruck on Monday August 14, 2017 @02:28PM (#15011146)
Perhaps apple users are significantly more likely to click on ads?
Re:Google is paying Apple billions per year to remain on the... by wcummings on Monday August 14, 2017 @03:32PM (#15011976)
iOS users are more affluent/more valuable to advertisers.