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Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by plafl on Saturday July 15, 2017 @08:43PM (#14779880)
Phone seems much more intrusive to me since it's a quite personal and private channel of communication as opossed to TV, or it should be at least.
Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by lostlogin on Sunday July 16, 2017 @04:41AM (#14781156)
Playing devils advocate here as I agree with you, phone call intrusion is worse. TV in the U.K. has to be paid for (with money that has her face on it) and the queens communications are pro-establishment, so it has a little of the creep factor.
Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by mustaflex on Saturday July 15, 2017 @08:33PM (#14779863)
The difference is you can opt to not listen to the Queen, here you have no other choice, the message is played for any call you make.
Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by coldtea on Saturday July 15, 2017 @09:59PM (#14780108)
Can you opt not to have a Queen and not be a subject to some royal family you never voted for or agreed to?
Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by greglindahl on Saturday July 15, 2017 @10:11PM (#14780146)
Yes. The UK could vote to abolish the monarchy, but they haven't. In a typical democracy, you are subject to laws that you didn't vote for or "agree to". A modern constitutional monarchy is a structure agreed to by the people.
Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by pjc50 on Sunday July 16, 2017 @06:43AM (#14781434)
This is an extremely stupid, reductionist discussion that shows the difference between theoretical and practical freedoms.

While the Queen's approval is theoretically required for legislation and various other bits of constitutional machinery, in practice it is always granted.

The objections to the Queen's role in the power structure are theoretical; nobody can point to specific bad actions as justification for changing the system.

The objections to Erdogan are much more practical and involve suppression of opposition and journalists.

Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by gonvaled on Sunday July 16, 2017 @12:09AM (#14780438)
Sure, Turks could also have rejected Erdogan (they voted for his reforms a couple of months ago). What are you trying to say?

And what was the last time that the UK voted to be a monarchy? Because Turkey voting recently makes it arguably more democratic.

Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by petre on Sunday July 16, 2017 @01:20AM (#14780617)
They didn't because most of the UK public supports UK being a monarchy so if anyone made such a proposition it would probably be highly unpopular. But they did vote to leave the EU for not having it their way. This decision has always been more popular, since about 60% of the UK public voted to join the EC, not the EU.
Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by coldtea on Sunday July 16, 2017 @09:00AM (#14781798)
>They didn't because most of the UK public supports UK being a monarchy

Of course they do. After all they are indoctrinated in its favor from an early age.

I don't see what rational people, starting from first principles, would agree to a bunch of do-nothings sitting in a palace, aristocrats owning huge plots of land that just got handed down to them, that aristocratic class having huge say in politics, networking their kids everywhere, etc.

(As for the "it's good for tourism" argument, you can have your palaces and castles made into tourist places even after you have thrown out your royals. The Palace of Versailles makes millions in tourist fees every year for example.)

Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by zo1 on Sunday July 16, 2017 @09:20AM (#14781871)
>"Of course they do. After all they are indoctrinated in its favor from an early age."

You could argue that for almost anything that we have in society (Religion and the State being the two most obvious ones). And yet, it intellectually doesn't phase people the slightest. "So what if we're taught that government is good and benevolent since a tender age". This is precisely because most of society does not function using first-principles. If they did, we'd be in a completely different world right now.

Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by coldtea on Sunday July 16, 2017 @02:12PM (#14783314)
>You could argue that for almost anything that we have in society (Religion and the State being the two most obvious ones). And yet, it intellectually doesn't phase people the slightest.

Is that supposed to be an argument in favor of royalty? At best, it's about how other things people think OK and are used to from a young age are also messed up. One could use that line of logic to excuse all kind of societal issues at their time -- segregation, racism and sexism for example.

And yet, society evolved beyond those, from self principles like equality.

Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by petre on Sunday July 16, 2017 @02:50PM (#14783532)
The commies wanted to build a society based on principles like equality but then some people turned to be more equal than others and corruption became so deeply rooted that it still plagues ex communist states today, 30 years after the fall of communism in Eastern Europe.
Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by coldtea on Sunday July 16, 2017 @02:56PM (#14783561)
>The commies wanted to build a society based on principles like equality but then some people turned to be more equal than others and corruption became so deeply rooted that it still plagues ex communist states today, 30 years after the fall of communism in Eastern Europe.

So? The US also wanted to do the same (build a society based on "certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness"). The French too during their revolution. As did countless other revolutions besides the "commies".

Didn't end that bad for most of them, in fact that's how the modern world was build.

Would you rather we still had Kings and Pharaohs lest "some people turn to be more equal than others"?

Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by gonvaled on Sunday July 16, 2017 @01:27AM (#14780634)
Why is having a monarchy that nobody voted to get rid of more democratic than having a president people voted for?

Why is your elected president hijacking the telephone network worse than your unelected queen hijacking your tv network?

Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by bencollier49 on Sunday July 16, 2017 @04:10AM (#14781082)
Because the Queen's Speech is a 15-minute slot on one channel out of about 300, not a mandatory message any time anyone makes a phone call.

Also, if you switch over to Channel 4, you can watch an alternative speech. A few years ago, they had the President of Iran on simultaneously.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_Christmas_message

Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by mrtksn on Sunday July 16, 2017 @04:39AM (#14781151)
Think of it as if the Queen speech was about the excellent job the British people did on the Brexit referendum, defeating the traitors.

Currently, a little bit more of the half of the population supports Erdogan and the other half hates him. Though admittedly the anti-Erdigan half did not support the coup as it is believed to be orchestrated by another islamist, but still...

Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by coldtea on Sunday July 16, 2017 @09:01AM (#14781805)
>Currently, a little bit more of the half of the population supports Erdogan and the other half hates him.

So, just like most politicians?

Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by mrtksn on Sunday July 16, 2017 @09:51AM (#14781955)
Yes, so? Do you have a point?

My point was that the British public would not be happy if the Queen used her time on TV to push the agenda of the half of the nation - like openly supporting or opposing Brexit using channels that are not available to the opposition.

Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by zo1 on Sunday July 16, 2017 @09:21AM (#14781877)
You mean just like all other Democracies out there? Sure, it floats from 60-40, or 70-30 sometimes. But how is 51-49 any less authoritarian against the 49 vs the 30?
Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by petre on Sunday July 16, 2017 @02:58PM (#14783574)
You vote for the parties in parliament. Then a government gets formed based on which party got the most votes. It's quite similar to Germany, which isn't a monarchy. However, the president of Germany is elected by Bundestag members and electors while the Queen is queen through birthright.
Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by sgift on Sunday July 16, 2017 @03:29AM (#14780986)
Phones are an essential service, TV isn't.
Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by golergka on Sunday July 16, 2017 @09:04AM (#14781814)
Because Queen doesn't have almost any real power.
Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by coldtea on Sunday July 16, 2017 @02:13PM (#14783323)
>Yes. The UK could vote to abolish the monarchy, but they haven't.

How open is this issue for discussion? Is it acceptable for e.g. a BBC journalist to promote on camera the dismantling of royalty, if that's what they think should be done?

>A modern constitutional monarchy is a structure agreed to by the people.

Agreed when? The MPs are voted for every few years. Even the constitution can be amended and changed, for countries that have one.

Does the UK hold a referendum on the issue of keeping or abolishing royalty, at least once every generation?

Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by ant6n on Sunday July 16, 2017 @12:03AM (#14780415)
You can't become a citizen of Canada, a country that calls itself democratic, without swearing allegiance to the queen.
Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by lostlogin on Sunday July 16, 2017 @04:45AM (#14781164)
The majority of Canadians became Canadian by being born there. Pretty sure the swearing wasn't coming from the new citizen.
Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by ant6n on Sunday July 16, 2017 @03:28PM (#14783721)
Yes, naturally you can't "become" a Canadian citizen if you're born one.
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Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by sk0g on Sunday July 16, 2017 @04:03AM (#14781068)
Are you serious? Lots of people barely watch TV, and this was in ONE time slot. And you're saying you can opt out of calling? Don't you have friends, bosses, colleagues, etc you have to call?
Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by quickthrower on Sunday July 16, 2017 @03:30AM (#14780990)
Can opt out of being murdered on the street by staying in your house 24/7
Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by sk0g on Sunday July 16, 2017 @04:04AM (#14781070)
"Forced death upon exiting your house is not even an issue, you can avoid it so easily!" - gonvaled, probably
Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by truxus on Saturday July 15, 2017 @09:39PM (#14780061)
To play devil's advocate: you can opt to not listen to Erdogan, just wait until he is finished.

I believe he's right, the Queen's message is similar.

Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by mickronome on Saturday July 15, 2017 @10:27PM (#14780177)
Devils devils advocate here :) It's part of the nature of radio that you are in control of the channel, but not the message heard, as it's controlled by programming - the other kind of programming. This is dissimilar to telephone where a specific channel (number) is uniquely expected to reach a specific person, company, or household.

Thus the analogy breaks twofold. First, while the radio works as expected under these conditions, the telephone does not. Secondly, opting out means to take some action without affecting anything else than what you are opting out from. If you consider opting out in this context, it's clear that waiting can not be considered to be an action we take, and thus can't be considered a way of opting out, our waiting in line could be considered to be "opting out of standing in line", an obvious contradiction.

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Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by throwaway29292 on Sunday July 16, 2017 @04:21AM (#14781111)
They have the moral high ground because a large proportion of their population isn't protesting against the monarchy or Queen.

Nobody(except you) deems it concerning that the TV is 'hijacked' once a year, and your concerns can be dismissed because they are motivated out of defending Turkish actions.

Re:Turkish GSM networks currently play a message of the Pres... by pjc50 on Sunday July 16, 2017 @06:44AM (#14781438)
That's not a takeover, it's something the BBC could choose not to do if they didn't want to.