News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by jikeo on Friday June 23, 2017 @02:44PM (#14621636)
I know I shouldn't be surprised, but it seems weird that the reporter nor any of the 140+ comments so far seemingly don't mention the recently published proposal for a new ePrivacy directive in the EU that will make it a lot harder for Google to scan e-mails in the first place.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu-privacy-idUSKBN14U1FL https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/10/whatsapp-... http://www.kemplittle.com/site/articles/kl_bytes/the-draft-e...

Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by chicob on Friday June 23, 2017 @03:33PM (#14622087)
That directive might be related to what's happening.

But let's not be naive: if Google will stop reading our emails in order to send us personalized ads, that's because it doesn't really need to. People share just enough outside their email environment for Google to do its thing. Another sign of which those worrying about privacy should be aware.

Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by hn_throwaway_99 on Friday June 23, 2017 @06:29PM (#14623250)
Exactly. Google already knows a shit ton about you, and given how data driven they are, I guarantee they came to the conclusion that they would still be able to show highly targeted ads with little or no loss in revenue or click-through-rates rates. Heck, dollars to donuts they've already A/B tested the shit out of it to reach this conclusion.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by x0x0 on Friday June 23, 2017 @07:19PM (#14623474)
Or they're willing to take a loss on the ads -- which frankly don't make much money -- to go after the far more lucrative corporate emailing/calendaring market. The pricing is $5/$10/$higher per user-month, so walking away from an ads business that may possibly (but I doubt it) be earning hundreds of millions to avoid a cloud over your sales process for the aforementioned multi-billion dollar business seems like a solid trade.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by tezzer on Friday June 23, 2017 @07:49PM (#14623610)
When you say ads don't make much money, are you talking about from business users? 2Q 2016 $19 billion of Alphabet's $21 billion in revenue came from ads, so that seems like a strange statement.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by mythz on Friday June 23, 2017 @10:36PM (#14624109)
The total advertising figure is irrelevant, most of their revenue comes from Search advertising where users are proactively in the context of seeking specific information at the point where relevant ads are most lucrative.

The only revenue being sacrificed is being able to deliver less contextual ads in gmail, they still know a lot about you so they'll still be targeted ads so their sacrificing marginal contextual targeting vs peace of mind in a large corporate market which are hesitant to use Google's G-Suite products because of their concerns that their emails are being scanned.

Google is smart, if they're doing this it's because they've calculated the increase potential in G-Suite revenue is more than the marginal loss in less contextually specific ads in gmail. Other factors that play a role in the decision is better branding in that Google is no longer spying in your private conversations to sell you targeted ads and the mitigation of potential lawsuits.

Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by x0x0 on Friday June 23, 2017 @10:43PM (#14624126)
The title of this page:

   	Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by mistermann on Friday June 23, 2017 @07:39PM (#14623560)
If they want me to use gmail for corporate email they better invest some effort in some UI & usability redesign.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by hedora on Saturday June 24, 2017 @11:27AM (#14625876)
Or maybe they could improve IMAP availability until it is only a few orders of magnitude worse than my local ISP (or the previous one, or all the IT departments I've dealt with this millennium...)
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by Spivak on Sunday June 25, 2017 @12:08PM (#14630666)
Huh? I use GMail via IMAP and I can't think of any time I've had problems. Am I just not noticing them?
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by LaurensBER on Sunday June 25, 2017 @05:42AM (#14629327)
They did.

Your mileage might vary but for me inbox is by far the most productive way to handle my e-mail.

Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by monk_e_boy on Friday June 23, 2017 @08:16PM (#14623712)
and memory consumption. I'm always amazed that gmail.com uses so much memory if you leave it open for a few days.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by omarchowdhury on Saturday June 24, 2017 @02:11AM (#14624577)
Google has never shown any Sponsored Gmail ads to Google Apps users (the corporate users you're talking about). There is no Promotions tab, which is where these advertisements are inserted for personal GMail users.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by sumedh on Friday June 23, 2017 @10:34PM (#14624106)
> so walking away from an ads business that may possibly (but I doubt it) be earning hundreds of millions

They are making billions from ads, just look their annual report.

Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by thanksgiving on Saturday June 24, 2017 @05:23AM (#14624998)
Sorry if this is obvious but I went to focus on revenue per user per year.

In other words, how much is it worth to fight the perception that gmail is somehow less secure than office 365 because ads (others have pointed out Google apps for business users don't see ads in their work gmail).

I somehow doubt that gmail ads are worth even remotely close to $120 (12 months * $10 per month) per user per year.

In other news: How much is a user worth per year to Google? Assuming not all users are the same, is there a way to predict his much revenue a user can bring for Google?

Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by Mahn on Saturday June 24, 2017 @11:12AM (#14625839)
The competitor for Office 365 is GSuite, not Gmail. People that were previously shown ads based on email content are not going to start paying for Gmail.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by gbacon on Friday June 23, 2017 @05:03PM (#14622773)
> Ads will continue to appear inside the free version of Gmail, as promoted messages. But instead of scanning a user’s email, the ads will now be targeted with other personal information Google already pulls from sources such as search and YouTube.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by roganp on Friday June 23, 2017 @09:07PM (#14623859)
Or, maybe: the extra information gleaned from reading your emails is just not that valuable. Not because they have this via other means, but its just not that valuable, period - whether it comes from reading emails or scrutinizing your browser history. We like to imagine that if advertisers knew enough about us, they'd be able to direct our spending, but I think that is far from true.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by piaste on Friday June 23, 2017 @09:14PM (#14623874)
I'm pretty sure scrutinizing your browser history is still extremely valuable. But I find it quite plausible that email in particular has lost value as marketing information.

People still use email for all kinds of business, of course. But their day-to-day personal activities, the kind that marketers care about ("I've taken up kayaking!", "I'm pregnant!") don't usually show up in emails any more, they get posted on social media.

Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by gub09 on Friday June 23, 2017 @09:36PM (#14623951)
This makes sense. Possibly the value of increased corporate sales of G Suite is worth more than the loss of the information gained from reading diminishing numbers of personal emails, as people turn more and more to social media and phone apps for personal communication.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by jodrellblank on Saturday June 24, 2017 @12:58AM (#14624429)
We like to imagine that if advertisers knew enough about us, they'd be able to direct our spending.

Speak for yourself, I don't like to imagine that at all.

Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by hedora on Saturday June 24, 2017 @12:07PM (#14626038)
The corporate profile they have on the company I work for must go into unthinkable detail. If they were announcing no tracking for work accounts across their entire suite of products, this would be a big deal.

As it is, they're presumably still reading our gdocs, address books, calendars, hangouts, search histories and broswing histories, and geolocations/third party app usage for all the android users. Email data is white noise compared to this.

I'd wonder how IT could be so stupid to put up with this if Microsoft hadn't also made pervasive surveillance mandatory.

Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by freshhawk on Saturday June 24, 2017 @01:47PM (#14626589)
> We like to imagine that if advertisers knew enough about us, they'd be able to direct our spending, but I think that is far from true.

So you haven't worked in an industry where you had that data and tried it then? In my experience you are completely, utterly wrong.

Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by h1d on Saturday June 24, 2017 @07:58PM (#14627975)
If people worry about passing email content to Google for privacy reasons, why use gmail? Seriously.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by brianpan on Sunday June 25, 2017 @02:25AM (#14628902)
I believe the concern is everyone else using gmail compromising your privacy.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by 65827 on Friday June 23, 2017 @06:35PM (#14623274)
Yeah it's all inevitable and we are just powerless peons in the face of the purely efficient and all knowing machine.

That's certainly the bullshit narrative Google wants you to believe.

Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by kevin_thibedeau on Friday June 23, 2017 @07:39PM (#14623561)
They explain everything in the TOS you agree to when starting a free account. It's not exactly shocking that they mine your data in exchange.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by hedora on Saturday June 24, 2017 @11:43AM (#14625941)
Google tracks you even if you do not have an acccount. There is not practical way to opt out.

I disagree with the TOS but we use their services at work. What am I supposed to do? Quit my job?

Even with ads blocked and cookies disabled, so much JavaScript is served by them, they can infer my browsing habits anyway, and I can't count the number of times I've had to rip 8.8.8.8 out of DNS settings in the last year.

How exactly does this constitute a choice to share my private information with them, and what thing that I want am I getting in exchange, exactly?

Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by SpikeDad on Saturday June 24, 2017 @11:17AM (#14625855)
And the 11 people out of 200 million users that read the TOS are indeed not shocked.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by aleem on Friday June 23, 2017 @05:34PM (#14622974)
The industry at large and Apple in particular is coming at them from the other direction preferring premium, furthering ad blockers and offering better privacy defaults (iOS 11). Elon Musk has gone so far as to allude that Google is the only AI company that worries him[1].

And so it goes. Coupled with AI and the amount of data they are able to feed into the AI engines, I am guessing this won't regress their ad targeting.

They have also managed to supplant it with other avenues. Google Travel, Google Calendar and other apps have explicit permission to read your email, Google serves email images off their own servers which gives them a tracking beacon and behavioural data across cohorts. All this adds a level of indirection but still gives them access to behavioural data and user intent.

[1] http://www.androidauthority.com/elon-musk-on-ai-696198/

Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by snowman311 on Friday June 23, 2017 @10:26PM (#14624086)
Agreed. The Google Ad Machine will never stop running. But, I think they will diversify their revenue streams in the coming years. Forces outside of Google's control such as governments and competition will begin to push back on the "all you can eat buffet" of personal data that Google has enjoyed in the past years.

Based on the numbers in the article like doubling their "large business" user base in the past year, I think Diane Greene will lead them to generating huge revenue in the Enterprise sector. Also, I think freemium versions of Google software, directed at consumers, will be increasingly popular in the future.

Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by hedora on Saturday June 24, 2017 @12:16PM (#14626067)
Apple does seem to be paying more than lip service to privacy. Are there any other examples?

Microsoft's "premium" push is actually moving toward more invasive surveillance.

They've been ramping up the marketing doublespeak about their "telemetry" in the last 12 months. Maybe that is a sign they'll back off sometime soon, but so far, it's "Full steam ahead, users be damned."

Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by tzs on Friday June 23, 2017 @05:17PM (#14622878)
Wouldn't Google be able to largely mitigate the effects of that if they wanted to by making it so accounts that do not consent to the scanning get smaller mailboxes or do not get spam filtering or something like that? I'd expect that would get most of its users to consent.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by andybak on Friday June 23, 2017 @05:51PM (#14623061)
They could but is it worth it?

I suspect the scanning of emails hasn't yielded the personalization once hoped. And the bad publicity outweighs any future potential.

Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by Steko on Friday June 23, 2017 @07:25PM (#14623497)
I just think the dollars aren't there: (1) email itself is fading vs text and various social media and (2) 98% of the population reads 98% of their email through the generic mail app on their phones that doesn't display Google's ads anyway.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by late2part on Friday June 23, 2017 @07:33PM (#14623533)
Name one free, popular, profitable, large scale service that offers limited capacity on their offering. Very very few. You offer unlimited and you charge for increased value or you monetize with ads. Freemium is mostly dead.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by applecrazy on Friday June 23, 2017 @11:53PM (#14624292)
Google doesn't offer unlimited data storage. 15GB to start and more can be purchased.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by late2part on Saturday June 24, 2017 @11:01AM (#14625799)
You're right. And my reponse is weak. But.... That's really meant to discourage those "power" users (like me) from abusing and leaving big stuff in there, I think. It's not meant to encourage most people to pay.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by lostlogin on Saturday June 24, 2017 @03:41AM (#14624767)
The storage offering was way way less than that when everyone here signed up, though it was still vastly greater than anything anyone else offered if memory serves.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by pferde on Sunday June 25, 2017 @09:31AM (#14629888)
Vastly indeed. There were even (one or two) pseudo-filesystems which used a Gmail account as a backend, because, hey, a free gigabyte!

I vaguely remember Google had to put their foot down to disallow such use, that's how popular those filesystems became.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GmailFS

Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by late2part on Saturday June 24, 2017 @02:57PM (#14626918)
Agreed. I sort of figure that increase is due to bandwidth inflation and decreasing unit costs.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by aaron_m04 on Saturday June 24, 2017 @03:17AM (#14624720)
I thought freemium _was_ charging for increased value.
Re:Google Will Stop Reading Your Emails for Gmail Ads by rhamzeh on Saturday June 24, 2017 @07:49AM (#14625283)
I think the freemium model discussed here is severely limiting your product and it's value for non-paying customers in order to get them to pay up.

One of the most powerful advantages of Gmail vs the competition is it's superbly powerful spam filtering and search features - I doubt it's worth losing that powerful image in order to get a few more users to pay up.

Just like the biggest advantage and product feature ProtonMail has is privacy and encryption - it would be a bad product decision to remove encryption from all free customers in order to get them to pay up.

The alternative is to offer a fully functional free* model that focuses on your strength, and charge customers for extra - extremely useful and important, but non product essential - features.

* Some would argue that Google's model is not free, as you are paying for it with your data, but that is a different discussion and outside the scope here.