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Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by __jal on Thursday June 08, 2017 @02:40PM (#14516146)
Can't claim to be a fanboy, but I am a longtime user[1], and this is the primary reason I stick to them for my phone. I frankly can't imagine using Android the way I use my Iphone - the privacy invasions considered acceptable are well in to the "no go" range for me, before even getting to the malware that pass for "free apps". If I were somehow forced to use Android, I'm pretty sure I'd treat it as an adversarial device, mostly like a feature-phone.

Trust is vital in devices like this.

[1] I'm becoming less of a fan, as MacOS becomes "cloud aware" and less of a Unix workstation.

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by lqdc13 on Thursday June 08, 2017 @02:55PM (#14516259)
Not sure how you use your iphone or what you would need from a smartphone, but I don't understand the distinction.

Apps like Lyft, Yelp and Uber already know where you are so you can't use those.

You're left with maps and browser. People tend to use google maps and Waze on iPhone anyway so that point is gone as well. If they use Apple maps, I am not convinced that apple doesn't store location history.

So then you're left with a browser. Android lets Firefox run its own browser engine and you can install all the privacy extensions there.

On the other hand, with Android it's possible to take privacy a lot more seriously. Lineage OS lets you have much more fine-grained controls over all the apps and you can forego the whole google services privacy menace.

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by ClassyJacket on Thursday June 08, 2017 @07:12PM (#14517905)
You've reduced the problem to only GPS location which is just wrong. Fact is, Android apps targeting 5.0 or lower can still read anything on my phone - SMS, location, photos, contacts, and well, everything else. And any root or ROM based add-ons to stop them are an impractical usability nightmare, where I could just own an iPhone.
Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by lqdc13 on Thursday June 08, 2017 @07:52PM (#14518126)
Weren't such permissions made explicit when the app was installed?

I'm not worried about SMS because everyone and their mother can see it now.

I don't think apps that didn't require contacts during installation could access them.

To me all Apple products are a usability nightmare. I am forced to do simple things the way Apple wants me to do them instead of the way I want to do them.

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by sjwright on Thursday June 08, 2017 @08:29PM (#14518308)
Or you could say:

To me all Android products are a usability nightmare. I am forced to do simple things the way Google wants me to do them instead of the way I want to do them.

That line of reasoning just doesn't scale.

Like only learning to type on a Dvorak keyboard, doing things "your way" can have consequences. Rampant, arbitrary customisation of interfaces is, in my estimation, more often than not an exercise in painting yourself into a corner.

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by lqdc13 on Friday June 09, 2017 @08:00AM (#14520775)
Completely agree with you on the interface front.

I gave up on interface consistency though because every app now has its own interface and vendors like Samsung have their own for each product.

I miss the old days of windows apps with consistent menus and obvious ways to use the programs. Now it's like playing some sort of text RPG where you have to try everything to figure out where some setting is.

The problem I have with apple is that things are not there because "art". Google is also very much guilty of it. But at least they don't copy all the apple problems and usually expose more of the internal workings of things than apple does.

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by coldtea on Thursday June 08, 2017 @03:11PM (#14516382)
>Apps like Lyft, Yelp and Uber already know where you are so you can't use those.

Only when you use them.

You can either not install them at all (problem solved).

or only allow them to "know your location" when you explicitly launch them and only for the duration of you actively using them on screen (problem lessened).

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by virmundi on Thursday June 08, 2017 @03:14PM (#14516397)
I don't know if they've fixed this, or if was just me not working the phone right, but Disney's park maps kept tracking when the app was closed.
Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by tricolon on Thursday June 08, 2017 @03:26PM (#14516486)
From the "Privacy and Your Apps" presentation on Tuesday at WWDC:

> in iOS 11, users will be able to choose the “when in use” option at all times [when asked for permission to use their location]

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by et-al on Thursday June 08, 2017 @03:32PM (#14516542)
> Disney's park maps kept tracking when the app was closed

Closed or in the background?

I was under the impression (in iOS 10 and earlier), that "Always" meant anytime the app was open, and "While in use" is only when the app is in the foreground. So if an app has "Always" on for its Location Services, it will stop tracking when I swipe up and quit it.

If I've been incorrect this whole time, please pass the tinfoil.

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by timcamber on Thursday June 08, 2017 @03:47PM (#14516664)
Additionally, with iOS 11, it seems Apple has forced the "while in use" option on apps that didn't include it on their own for location permissions.
Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by eridius on Thursday June 08, 2017 @03:59PM (#14516763)
You're correct. Manually killing an app from the recent apps list will stop it from doing background processing (e.g. tracking location). I'm not sure if they'll be allowed to start again if e.g. they receive a silent push, and I'm also not sure if they're allowed to handle geofences, but besides those two questions, killing the app stops it tracking you.
Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by soperj on Thursday June 08, 2017 @03:16PM (#14516412)
You can do similar things on Android. You can also turn off your gps in 2 seconds as well.
Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by coldtea on Thursday June 08, 2017 @05:58PM (#14517492)
With the crazy malware and oparque permissions nobody really knows what's fully going on on Android though.

You could turn off the gps but that's too coarse: you might want it for some apps.

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by datguacdoh on Thursday June 08, 2017 @07:21PM (#14517954)
But that's how permissions work on Android though. You can grant them to an app when it's requested, or not. Or you can turn it off at the system level with the bug switch in the settings shade. I have an iPad and the permissions models are basically identical at this point.
Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by TheAceOfHearts on Thursday June 08, 2017 @02:50PM (#14516222)
For an Android alternative, check out CopperheadOS [0]. I'd argue it's better than iOS in privacy, since you can compile it yourself (excluding a few binary blobs).

[0] https://copperhead.co/android/

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by satsuma on Thursday June 08, 2017 @03:01PM (#14516306)
All these Android alternatives really make me wish I have someone other than Verizon as a carrier.
Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by theCricketer on Thursday June 08, 2017 @02:43PM (#14516179)
Could you elaborate on Android's weaknesses when it comes to privacy and contrast this with Apple's approach? Asking genuinely to update my understanding.
Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by macinjosh on Thursday June 08, 2017 @02:48PM (#14516210)
The glib response is to point out the difference between Apple's and Google's business models. Apple makes money by selling devices, Google sells ads (i.e. sells their customers' data to advertisers).
Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by had2makeanacct on Thursday June 08, 2017 @03:16PM (#14516421)
>(i.e. sells their customers' data to advertisers)

They take the ads, and distribute them to their users based on user taste that's their secret sauce. Giving user data to advertisers would be giving away their secrets I think.

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by mythz on Thursday June 08, 2017 @05:36PM (#14517366)
> Google sells ads (i.e. sells their customers' data to advertisers).

They sell targeted ads, they do not sell customers' data to advertisers. i.e. Advertisers get to advertise on Google's platforms, but they do not get access to Customer data.

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by BoorishBears on Thursday June 08, 2017 @02:51PM (#14516229)
And that Apple is the OEM behind the device that runs their OS, and Google (usually) isn't.
Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by throwanem on Thursday June 08, 2017 @02:55PM (#14516253)
Also that Android only gained the ability to enforce iOS-style fine-grained app permissions (prompting on first use for access to camera, location, etc., instead of a blanket grant at install time) one major version ago, which means that many if not most users can't actually get the benefit without buying a newer phone.

I gather there are some questions around the strength of its app sandboxing as well, but I can't speak to that at all. Perhaps someone better informed will do so.

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by BoorishBears on Thursday June 08, 2017 @03:09PM (#14516366)
Those permissions are also opt-in for devs at the moment (by choosing certain OS versions at build time you can still use the old permissions system).

I'm an Android dev and to me the biggest problem with Android from every aspect (development, security, monetization) is how poorly new versions of Android are supported on devices.

Apple's dig at Android 7 usage vs iOS 10 usage was spot on.

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by Oletros on Thursday June 08, 2017 @03:02PM (#14516319)
> (i.e. sells their customers' data to advertisers).

This is not true

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by threeseed on Thursday June 08, 2017 @04:21PM (#14516912)
Couple of examples:

1) iOS has had lazy permissions since the very early days e.g. when an app wants to use this microphone then ask the user right then instead of when the app is installed. This feature is still not implemented on all Android devices nor is it as seamless nor is it mandatory.

2) Apple is providing more and more frameworks e.g. CoreML which run only on the device. This means that developers don't have to run their own server side apps to process data.

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by j2bax on Thursday June 08, 2017 @05:45PM (#14517416)
I don't really see that as lazy. I see that as considerate/beneficial to the user. I much prefer to be asked in context what/how the app is going to use the microphone for rather than on initial install, when I might be like "why the heck does this app need to use the microphone?"
Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by johncolanduoni on Thursday June 08, 2017 @07:00PM (#14517850)
It was being used in the programming sense, not as an insult. When some code passes around a "placeholder" instead of a value and waits until it is used to bother calculating it, that is commonly described as "lazy".
Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by j2bax on Thursday June 08, 2017 @07:11PM (#14517900)
Got it! Thanks for the explanation and not assuming I'm a programmer, because I'm not!
Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by s73ver on Thursday June 08, 2017 @03:58PM (#14516756)
"[1] I'm becoming less of a fan, as MacOS becomes "cloud aware" and less of a Unix workstation."

How is it becoming less of a Unix workstation? It can still do all the Unixy stuff it could before.

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by __jal on Thursday June 08, 2017 @05:43PM (#14517400)
What I mean is twofold:

- They're paying much less attention to the "Unixy stuff" than they used to. Old versions of common things take forever to be updated. Compatibility has always been shit, but it is getting worse. SIP means a number of things I tend to modify, can't be, without hassle[1].

- With a workstation, I expect to be able tailor it specifically to my work requirements. This is becoming increasingly difficult at the proliferation of "cloud" daemons increases and they lock down the system - the documentation for most of the daemons ranges from "sucks" to "nonexistent", so it isn't clear if any given one needed for stable operation or if it yet another thing related to trying to sell me music or some such[2]. Reverting the machine to a state where "root" means "root" is rather difficult (See SIP).

Apple's focus is on chasing the flavor-of-the-month social features and keeping up with the GOOGs. Which makes sense - the set of people buying that stuff is much larger than the workstation market. But it means they don't care so much about it, and make choices like letting the core OS get as buggy and unstable as it has become.

It is mostly fine for me. I built a nice king-hell PC running Debian that I'm very happy with. I didn't think I would, but after my last MBP died unexpectedly, I ended up buying a bottom-rung used Air because I'm hopelessly dependant on OmniFocus and a couple other OS X only productivity tools, and I sync my phone local-only. So it tends to live in the dining room, where I work on my schedule and read mail via ssh over breakfast.

So yeah, Apple still has a place for me, but it is peripheral. I spent mid-4 figures on building a PC this year, and mid-3 on that MBA. And I'm thinking about what I really need out of OmniFocus, and how much of that I can build myself.

[1] This is a good thing for many people, but I expect full control of my machines, and I do occasionally sketchy things like patching Safari. The problem with SIP is that I only need full control sporadically, and not for long, but it is a serious PITA to disable/enable. So it just stays disabled.

[2] One example of many is `parsecd`. No man page. Googling about shows that a lot of people think it to be related to location-based lookups for Siri data. Despite the fact that Siri is disabled on my box, it ran and asked for network access all the time, until I disabled it. Now, WTF is 'LaterAgent', and why is it in my process table?

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by s73ver on Thursday June 08, 2017 @07:33PM (#14518025)
I really cannot agree with you. I still don't see anything that affects using OS X as a Unix station. It works just as well as it did before. And I've never had an issue with SIP.
Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by __jal on Thursday June 08, 2017 @07:51PM (#14518119)
I'm glad it works for you.
Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by rdslw on Thursday June 08, 2017 @10:52PM (#14518853)
That resonates well with myself (similar) experience.

The very same omnifocus problem solution:

* shorterm for migration: omnifocus on ipad

* longterm: trello - it will be slightly different, and you have to come with your own GTD system for it, BUT surprisingly the differences allow me to get fresh and new approach to GTD. it's worth.

as a bonus: you can check taskwarrior instead.

I tried every other software, but it sucked, meaning got some problems. IMO only trello or taskwarrior _might_ (still in the process) do.

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by eridius on Thursday June 08, 2017 @08:06PM (#14518187)
parsecd is apparently "Used for Suggestions in Spotlight, Messages, Lookup and Safari" according to a Reddit comment (https://www.reddit.com/r/mac/comments/54870l/what_is_comappl...).

LaterAgent is used for system updates. Specifically, it appears to be what handles reminding you again later when the system prompts you to install an update and you select the option to remind you again later.

Re:Apple is struggling to become an AI powerhouse by foobarian on Thursday June 08, 2017 @10:20PM (#14518757)
I wish I could get the equivalent of 'xset r rate 160 80' on a Mac. And about that Alt-Tab behavior...