OK its pro, but it is also mobile. Who has a mobile device (not something that just sits at your desk all day) with 32 GB of ram?

Lenovo has laptops with 32g. HP does too. ASUS... gosh... lots of companies offer it...

What's the point of the question?

Lots of end users want a laptop with 32g.

Yes, there are workstation class laptops available for exactly that purpose. This isn't one of them.

I think the point they're trying to make is that the sort of person who wants 32 or 64 GB of RAM in their laptop (and I'm definitely in that group) also wants a fast processor and a decent graphics card. The number of people who need 32+ GB of RAM and are happy with a slow processor is probably quite small. The sort of work I'd use my Surface Pro for doesn't need more than 8GB of RAM and the sort of work I need 32+GB of RAM for I wouldn't do on a Surface Pro.

But, depending on your workload, fast enough may well be... laptop i5/i7 are pretty fast, again depending on workload... if I'm trying to simulate a tech stack, with modest data loaded, I'm the only user, so it's plenty fast, but memory can become constrained pretty quickly...

Windows overhead, Visual Studio, Linux VMs, multiple docker containers, local dynamodb, sql database, queues, etc. If you're developing locally against a workflow with a few VMs in the mix, 16gb can be an incredible constraint. I'm not trying to simulate hundreds of users, just one across a stack.

But that is probably not the usecase most people who will buy a Surface Pro for. It's a very portable device and 32GB would consume more power and probably be only bought by a very small amount of users.

Not sure... "PRO" should probably be a label for "PRO" versions of something, and 16GB should probably be a minimum in that case. Lots of people doing heavy image work or video may be better served by more than that as well. Which is well within that segment.

Thats a matter of definition. Surface Pro originally was to distinguish against the Surface RT, where it made sense. Same goes for iPad Pro which is clearly not meant in the same way you are suggesting, Macbook Pro is the same. The PRO label is meant to distinguish them against their own lower tier products. Imo the demand for 32GB RAM Laptops is pretty limited right now, which is why you usually find that in workstation laptops only. I don't know any 13" Ultrabook with 32GB to be honest.

Maybe it's limited because companies are only putting it in workstation class laptops instead of giving consumers a choice.

bingo.

the demand for 32g in a laptop was greater than the demand for a touchbar, I can tell you that.

The issue for that is kind of like the "faster horses" vs cars. In this case, however the touchbar was a half-baked interface in trade for the lack of full touch.

I think that the users who DO have that usecase (like the OP) are clamoring for a machine that is more portable. The same debate raged when the MBP was released; people want a powerful, sleek and portable workhorse that they can use for longer than 2 hours, and no one is delivering right now.

Maybe because its not easy todo with current technology ? Size, heat and power consumption all have to be balanced carefully, so you can not just stuff an i7 quad core with 32GB RAM in a tiny package and expect it to be great. Compromises have to be made. I think it's incredible what kind of processing power we can have in small packages today and it will of course move forward, but for some people it's never quick enough i guess.

How much more heat/power would 32gb vs 16b use/generate... okay, so I get 12.5 hours instead of 13... As long as it's more than 8.5 hours battery life under modest load. The RAM is very far from a big consumer of electricity in a laptop.. the screen and cpu are MUCH more of an issue there, likewise in terms of heat.

But are they ultrabooks and 13" or lower ? I can't think of any ultrabook with those dimensions and 32GB RAM.

People who needs lots of RAM usually willing to pay extra for i7 and other expensive parts, and hardware manufacturers know and exploit that.

Fortunately, there’re some ultrabooks on the market with user-upgradeable RAM. This article says Intel CPUs supports 16GB DDR3L modules since Broadwell, i.e. you should be able to install 32GB yourself: http://www.techrepublic.com/article/16-gb-so-dimm-ram-module...

Lenovo has laptops with 64g ECC.

I have the XPS 15 with 32GB ram, it's an amazing laptop.

It becomes essential once you start running VM's or Docker etc

Sure, but even if the surface pro came with 32gb of RAM (all other specs identical), would you consider trading your XPS 15 for a surface pro? We're really talking about two different market segments here.

the surface pro is more comparable to the XPS 13, which does not come with 32GB either.

Which makes it comparable to the 12" MacBook which is far from a pro device.

12" Macbook only comes with a Core M CPU and 8GB Ram max, the Surface Pro is much more capable than that, basically on Macbook Pro levels.

Depends on the exact model. The xps has an "i7" but it's pretty much just a core m with a few little extras.

Remember, this is a fanless design so thermal throttling will be insane, just like on the macbook and the xps13.

Neither the Surface Pro i7 nor the XPS13 (not talking about the 1 in 2 XPS13) are fanless. Its the same class as the Macbook Pro 13 but Kaby Lake as opposed to Skylake allows for a fanless i5 Surface Pro.

I dunno, I do all that with 16gb of RAM, and have for years.

Same. I don't get it. My machines are 16gb and have zero problems with VMs, docker. What am I missing?

I specifically bought my System76 Galago Pro (when considering it vs. the Purism Librem 13) because it can do 32GB of ram.

The space of people needing >16gb are typically looking at more fully-fledged workstations, is maybe the idea here? Not that an upgrade option wouldn't be good, it just seems a bit at odds with the surface's goals

Having a couple of idling VMs is hardly a workstation level load and 16 GB is just barely sometimes enough.

"pro", not "specialist" or "expert" device. It's still a consumer class device, just sits on the higher end of the chain.

Where is the "expert" class device for developers and SREs?

Probably not by companies by MS or Apple. They are focused on the wider, general market.