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Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by compumike on Friday March 10, 2017 @02:42PM (#13841443)
(Note: cofounder responsible for pricing decisions many times.)

The closest thing to a "methodology" I've found is asking these four questions and having the users generate their own pricing curve [1]:

Here's a real set of curves this process generated for me recently: http://imgur.com/lPKLk53 ($ values redacted)

The four questions are:

1. At what price would you consider [the product/service] to be so expensive that you would not consider buying it?

2. At what price would you consider [the product/service] to be priced so low that you would feel the quality couldn’t be very good?

3. At what price would you consider [the product/service] starting to get expensive, so that it is not out of the question, but you would have to give some thought to buying it?

4. At what price would you consider [the product/service] to be a bargain—a great buy for the money?

Require a specific $ amount as the answer to each question.

Take ~100 users, ask them all four of these questions, and then compile the results. You really have to do this on a subset of your own qualified potential customers to get any meaningful data.

The neat thing about this is that this creates a price sensitivity curve without anchoring the interviewee with any prior numeric values.

At the end of the day, it's still a gut call about where to place your price point relative to the user's alternatives, and testing is encouraged, but these four questions are a decent start.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_Westendorp%27s_Price_Sensi...

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by Osiris on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:00PM (#13842898)
It's been consistently shown that what people say they'll do regarding pricing and what they actually do are not correlated.

Rather than asking people, if you can, try just changing the prices and see how customer acquisition changes.

I sell a program online to consumers, so for a while I tried several experiments in pricing, including a "pay what you want". Structure. Eventually I settled on a price that's about half what the highest accepted price was ($10) and the typically "pay what you want" price ($1). Right now I sell for $4 (perpetually listed as 50% off of $8), which brings in about as much revenue as the $10 price. The advantage, though, is that it gets in the hands of more people, so there's a higher potential for word-of-mouth advertising.

So, I would say, if you're in the position to do so, experiment with the prices in the real world and look at how purchasing behavior changes.

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by eriknstr on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:54PM (#13843179)
>it gets in the hands of more people, so there's a higher potential for word-of-mouth advertising

This is a very good point and something I haven't considered.

On the flip side, depending on your type of product, I think more customers could lead to an increase in support burden to the point where it is costing you more than the amount of extra dollars you get from the additional amount of customers.

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by GordonS on Saturday March 11, 2017 @07:32AM (#13845251)
> perpetually listed as 50% off of $8

Isn't that quite dishonest? I'm fairly sure this is illegal in at least the UK, so I'd assume in plenty other EU countries too. Are you in the US? Is this practice legal there?

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by mehaveaccount on Saturday March 11, 2017 @11:15AM (#13845881)
>> perpetually listed as 50% off of $8

>Isn't that quite dishonest? I'm fairly sure this is illegal in at least the UK, so I'd assume in plenty other EU countries too. Are you in the US? Is this practice legal there?

That's weird, are people in the UK not able to see through marketing gimmicks?

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by sideshowb on Saturday March 11, 2017 @01:14PM (#13846419)
Apparently most of us can't, or it wouldn't be worth using them. ;)

Really you could consider it a subset of truth in advertising law though. How can it be a 50% discount if it's never been sold at full price for a significant amount of time?

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by Osiris on Sunday March 12, 2017 @04:32AM (#13849818)
Basically what happened is that I did sell it for $8, then I did a 50% sale and saw an increase in sales. I did the sale on and off a few times then just got lazy and didn't get around to removing the sale flag from the website for a while and eventually I just decided that most people only buy it once, so from their perspective it's on sale now. It also saved the effort of remembering to switch the pricing back and forth every few weeks.
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by djKianoosh on Saturday March 11, 2017 @10:10AM (#13845642)
this practice is so prevalent here in the US I cant imagine it being illegal
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by tprynn on Saturday March 11, 2017 @11:00AM (#13845817)
You are wrong. Many states have laws against this type of deceptive pricing, and it's against the FCC's guidelines as well: http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=0fe5a1d5614a06c2f27...
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by djKianoosh on Saturday March 11, 2017 @05:27PM (#13847599)
and yet we dont care when Manning tech books always have a discount someway somehow. there's almost always a deal of the day. just have patience. I know it's not technically perpetual but it has the same effect.
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by gnicholas on Saturday March 11, 2017 @10:57AM (#13845800)
Joseph A Bank was sued for perpetual sales [1]. The case was dismissed for defects in the plaintiff's case unrelated to the legal theory (they couldn't produce receipts of their supposed purchases), but of course even an unsuccessful lawsuit of this nature could bankrupt a startup.

Of course, without deep pockets, a startup is also unlikely to be targeted for this.

1: http://business.time.com/2012/06/11/can-you-sue-a-store-for-...

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by padraic7a on Sunday March 12, 2017 @05:53AM (#13850028)
That would be illegal in Ireland, and presumably accross the EU.
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by rjzzleep on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:27PM (#13843346)
> Rather than asking people, if you can, try just changing the prices and see how customer acquisition changes.

This is essentially the best advice you can get.

IF you have to be safe because you're e.g. in Germany and you can't just change other peoples contracts after they signed up. Just keep the old contract/subscription types and then offer them a migration path sometime in the future.

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by prance on Saturday March 11, 2017 @12:44AM (#13844421)
> IF you have to be safe because you're e.g. in Germany and you can't just change other peoples contracts after they signed up.

Isn't it the very nature of contracts that you cannot change them unilaterally? I'd be very surprised if there are places where you can legally do that, and I wouldn't call such a thing "contract".

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by crypto5 on Friday March 10, 2017 @09:46PM (#13843893)
> Rather than asking people, if you can, try just changing the prices and see how customer acquisition changes.

You likely can lose chunk of customers because of big price fluctuations..

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by icebraining on Saturday March 11, 2017 @11:06AM (#13845838)
You can change prices for new customers while keeping the old price for existing customers. Though if it's a price drop, you might want to lower for the existing ones too.
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by savanaly on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:08PM (#13843253)
>not correlated.

Eh? So if I told you I had two products A and B and I showed them to potential customers who on average said they would pay $100 for A and $10,000 for B, you wouldn't be willing to bet that when I actually take them to market B would end up retailing for more?

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by dahart on Saturday March 11, 2017 @12:58AM (#13844453)
> you wouldn't be willing to bet...?

You just compared two (purely hypothetical) things someone said they'd do, you didn't address what @Osiris was talking about, which is the discrepancy between talk and action. The comment is correct, there is a lot of evidence out there that people do not pay what they say, that actions and talk do not correlate very well. So it would be interesting if you had some counter evidence to back your rebuttal, because theories based on logic alone rarely survive contact with actual human behavior.

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by bayonetz on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:57PM (#13843469)
He must have meant loosely correlated. I'm sure it varies by product type and user knowledge.
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by 6t6t6t6 on Saturday March 11, 2017 @03:08AM (#13844745)
> it gets in the hands of more people, so there's a higher potential for word-of-mouth advertising

Also, those are customers that will not buy your competitors' product.

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by chris_st on Saturday March 11, 2017 @09:33AM (#13845511)
Well, depending on price and features, of course.

I have purchased both TextMate and Sublime, for instance, and now use Atom.

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by blurble on Saturday March 11, 2017 @12:45AM (#13844428)
> perpetually listed as 50% off

Illegal in the UK IIRC

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by lettergram on Friday March 10, 2017 @06:20PM (#13843009)
I second this. I always start my service for free, and tell them at some point I'm going to charge pricing, but the first 100 users don't have to pay EVER.

After I get ~50 - ~300 users, I tell them I'm going to set pricing. I usually do this with a pop up or email. They then have a drop down with "how much would you be willing to pay monthly for this service"

Usually you get some range, say $5/month to $100/month. I usually pick one standard deviation above the average. So in this case, let's call that $60/month.

Then, I usually will A/B test pricing by changing it month by month with "sales" so my current customers don't get too angry.

I've done this three times on my products and several times for others. Thus far, it's worked very well. You don't always want to capture the most customers to make the most profit. This method has you start at the top of what people would be willing to pay and work down.

Plus, you start with a user base for free that share you with their friends. Seriously, this has been the best way to jump start the business.

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by WA on Saturday March 11, 2017 @04:00AM (#13844842)
Sales is a great idea for testing, but how do you make a sale to increase price? My current customers know the price. Word of mouth customers know it too.

For your scenario, you need to start at a higher price point, no?

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by hayksaakian on Friday March 10, 2017 @11:39PM (#13844260)
'sales' is a really cool idea

i think someone else in the thread made a comment about 'pissing off' existing customers, but a 'sale' is the perfect solution.

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by lettergram on Friday March 10, 2017 @11:59PM (#13844314)
Yup, you do sales with it listed like: ~$60~ now only $35!
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by gingerlime on Saturday March 11, 2017 @01:56AM (#13844576)
That's a good approach overall. Thanks for sharing. There are a couple of problems with sales however:

1. In a way they address a different psychological need for people. It's about getting a good deal or a discount over the "normal" price, rather than considering the price itself... So you're testing different things that in some way conflict.

2. Over time, if people see there's always a sale, they might hold-off from buying?

3. It just gives a slightly "cheap" reputation (think shared hosting as a rather extreme example that comes to mind, or any site that always has tons of coupons on coupon-hunting sites).

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by jedberg on Friday March 10, 2017 @04:40PM (#13842384)
That's a great methodology! But you do you avoid your customers lowballing their numbers since they know you're using the information to set the price they will eventually pay?
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by bryanh on Friday March 10, 2017 @05:11PM (#13842609)
Back in the early days of Zapier I remember we always made explicit our grandfathering clause for users who gave pricing feedback. Same for any eventual pricing changes
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by chris_st on Saturday March 11, 2017 @09:35AM (#13845520)
Thanks very much for Zapier, by the way! It's a great service.
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by paulddraper on Friday March 10, 2017 @04:00PM (#13842093)
Excellent questions. Do not anchor the interviewees.

But anchor yourself. You should certainly know the prices of your competitors (or the closest thing thereto).

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by rubicon33 on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:11PM (#13843269)
I'm really interested in your second question!

I just released a product recently which HUGELY undercuts the competition. I was able to build it cheaply, over the course of a couple of years, and as a result I never took investment or hired anyone, so I can offer the product at incredibly low rates (compared to the competition).

My worry is that I may be pricing it so low, that I'm actually scaring off potential customers. This is an enterprise product, so they're used to seeing massive licensing fees. I initially thought that offering it at the lowest price I could afford, would mean I would garner the most customers, but now I'm starting to wonder if that's true... I have no experience pricing things, and I'm really considering putting out a survey to existing customers.

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by trishume on Friday March 10, 2017 @07:20PM (#13843319)
Note that you don't want to maximize customers, you want to maximize revenue. So even if hugely undercutting your competition gets you the most customers, you may still want to raise prices. If doubling your prices doesn't produce half as many customers (e.g. because you're still undercutting your competition) then you want to double your prices to make more money.

So yes, worry about scaring off potential customers with a price too low, but don't worry about scaring customers with a price that's too high, unless you scare off proportionally more than you increase the price. The way you describe it sounds like you could make way more money by raising your prices.

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by abalashov on Friday March 10, 2017 @11:21PM (#13844199)
> Note that you don't want to maximize customers, you want to maximize revenue.

Now there is a memo that the Silicon Valley web startup economy didn't get...

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by ghufran_syed on Saturday March 11, 2017 @01:23AM (#13844514)
This link [1] has a good description of Sandy Kurtzig's "flinch" pricing method with Enterprise customers (I believe she was the first female startup founder to IPO her company). Her book, "CEO" about her startup journey is a good read, it was one of the first books I read that got me interested in business.

[1] http://venturehacks.com/articles/pricing

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by karussell on Saturday March 11, 2017 @04:46AM (#13844941)
Thanks, this was funny to listen! ... $75K! ... aeh per year!
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by thkim on Saturday March 11, 2017 @02:00AM (#13844585)
I just wanted to say that be careful about lowering your price just because you can. You should charge a price that maximizes your profit. Don't charge low just because you can, unless you have a reason (company philosophy, growth, etc.). Business usually exists to maximize profit. If you are priced a lot lower than your competition, double check whether your price is too low.
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by Trundle on Friday March 10, 2017 @09:46PM (#13843894)
If not scaring them away, you might just be leaving money on the table for no good reason. Enterprise customers aren't as price sensitive as consumers or smb.
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by jkaljundi on Saturday March 11, 2017 @12:57AM (#13844451)
How long is your sales cycle from visitor to paid? If less than 1-2 months, just play around double the price for a month and see what happens.

Having run and advised numerous companies over years, increasing prices is one of the best decisions a startup can do. In 90% of cases there are no ill effects and just increased income which helps buld a better product. Profitability FTW.

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by jordancampbell on Saturday March 11, 2017 @12:25AM (#13844367)
I was once told by a former Seattle based executive that the best way for a startup to price their product was to take what they thought it should be worth and then add a couple of zeros to the end.

There's a school of thought that says that you should only achieve a certain percentage of sales. So if you're getting 90% of deals then you might be pricing too low, and if you're not getting anything then obviously too high. But if you're making 10% of sales and your selling for 100x more than your guess at the price then you're likely doing well.

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by alok-g on Saturday March 11, 2017 @05:05AM (#13844974)
Genuinely asking: Have you experimented with asking people to guess the price for the product? (Wondering if that is a simpler and better question to ask the users.)
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by sova on Friday March 10, 2017 @02:49PM (#13841497)
Very sensible approach. My question would be: does this product make more sense as a recurring subscription or a one-time cost? Perhaps so many things are subscription based now that it is hardly a question, though.
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by laythea on Saturday March 11, 2017 @11:43AM (#13846008)
And then when you've answered all of those, surely the next one is:

5. How willing are you to undercut yourself, due to financial desperation?

Out of that question will pop out a selling price.

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by foota on Saturday March 11, 2017 @12:24AM (#13844362)
You might consider a different tactic, one where you ask whether they would feel X is a fair price for the product. This can help eliminate bias in responses.
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by joegosse on Friday March 10, 2017 @02:47PM (#13841487)
Conjoint analysis is also a common approach. It requires less specific answers from customers about price points, which people are often unwilling to share.
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by pccampbell on Friday March 10, 2017 @04:14PM (#13842179)
If you can get enough solid survey responses, conjoint is ideal, but won't give you a lot in terms of a price elasticity curve. That's not necessarily a problem, but I'd recommend a combination of MaxDiff (baby conjoint) and Van Westendorp. Used in tandem you'll get some solid footing on packaging preferences, value props for positioning, and ultimately price elasticity.
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by chirau on Friday March 10, 2017 @05:13PM (#13842630)
Is this after you they have trialed the product/service or when you have just given them an overview of what it does and how it is valuable to them?
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by amelius on Saturday March 11, 2017 @04:10AM (#13844868)
This method fails when you are selling a SaaS aimed at large companies with an unknown budget.

There probably isn't one method that works in all cases.

Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by adamqureshi on Friday March 10, 2017 @03:03PM (#13841606)
Dang! i just tried this. Thanks brotha
Re:Ask HN: How do you set prices? by 19eightyfour on Saturday March 11, 2017 @12:29PM (#13846228)
Great informative answer. Question: is the x axis linear scale?