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Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by dsfyu404ed on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @11:16PM (#13548061)
>Rural >barren wasteland

If you're a glass half empty person. Many people see it as freedom to do close to whatever you want without anyone caring.

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by macNchz on Thursday February 02, 2017 @01:21AM (#13548548)
I think the important distinction there is between rural and suburban.

I grew up in a rural small town and now live in NYC... I love my neighborhood in the city for how extremely walkable it is, the breadth of diversity in people, food, opportunities etc. However I do often miss, for example, going for aimless drives with no traffic or stoplights, finding solitude on a dirt road 5 minutes from home with not a house or person in sight, hiking, camping, shooting and snowmobiling essentially right outside the door.

In the burbs I still get the same kind of 'trapped' feeling I'll sometimes get in the city, but without the benefits of living in a dense city: endless things to do, many friends within walking distance, and tons of places to share a drink or meal with them.

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by vkou on Thursday February 02, 2017 @02:36AM (#13548822)
I can assure you, your suburban HOA is extremely caring about what you do. Heaven forbid you change the colour of your curtains.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by thomnottom on Thursday February 02, 2017 @09:11AM (#13550566)
I've lived in suburbs most of my life and have never had a HOA.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by baursak on Thursday February 02, 2017 @10:22AM (#13551084)
I've lived all my life without ever visiting China.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by thomnottom on Thursday February 02, 2017 @10:58AM (#13551402)
Not sure the point of this. The implication of the parent was that HOAs severely restrict freedoms in the suburbs. My point was that HOAs are not a requirement for living in the suburbs.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by NoGravitas on Thursday February 02, 2017 @08:44AM (#13550411)
Suburbs are really the worst of both worlds. City and rural both have their appeals. Suburbs have nothing.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by balabaster on Thursday February 02, 2017 @09:18AM (#13550613)
The suburbs truly are a barren wasteland of nothing. Without your car, they're a soul sucking prison with all the rules of the city and none of the pay-offs.

I now live in rural Canada. I've spent much of my adult life living in dense cities after having grown up in rural England - London, Vancouver, Houston, Toronto. You can't compare the advantages of either environment - rural or city, but the suburbs truly are the worst of each. You get a lot of space you can't do anything of any value with because of all the rules defined for the comfort of your neighbours who you either have never met or are a pain in your ass; and you can't walk anywhere because there's nowhere to walk.

When you live surrounded by farmland, you can camp for free, hunt, be outdoors, roam on your bike, let your kids climb trees and hike and explore on their own, build treehouses and let them play Lord of the Flies to their heart's content. They can grow, find themselves and become self confident self assured leaders who don't need Mommy every time they graze a knee and have thick skin that doesn't cry to be soothed every time someone insults them, because "they've got this".

In the city you've still got all the stifling rules of suburbia, but you have a pay off: Everything is to hand, you can ditch your car and walk everywhere or take public transit, get on your bike, become part of a tight community of city dwellers. There's extensive culture right outside your door, night life, excitement and high energy... that never. Ever. Shuts. Off.

Eventually the city grinds you down though. It's exciting and freeing for a while, and if you grew up in the city, you might never notice it; but if you grew up in the countryside or the mountains eventually you'll notice it and begin to feel trapped, you'll begin to miss your roots and the simple life, you'll grow sick of trying to keep up with the relentless onslaught of the media, the billboards, the shop windows telling you that you're not enough, you need this to feel better, you need this to look better, you need this to be better and you'll begin to long for an escape from the ceaseless assault of your mind.

Rural life is a different kind of freedom... where you can see the stars.

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by baursak on Thursday February 02, 2017 @10:18AM (#13551058)
As someone who considered this, there are a few other factors where cities are preferable.

Work. If you're not running your own online business and need a skilled/tech job, you don't have much choice.

Schools. Cities often have better school options for your kids.

Politics. Rural areas across the world generally lean conservative, and sometimes downright way too conservative.

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by balabaster on Thursday February 02, 2017 @10:52AM (#13551357)
Work: This is a matter of priority... you can always find ways to pay the bills and put food on the table. It might not be doing exactly what you love, or it may be. There are ways to make almost anything work if you spend the graft making a name for yourself. You're right, it's frequently easier, dare I say simple to find a comfortable job doing what you love in the city. I'm at a point now where I have enough of a client base who trust the quality of my work to give me the freedom to work from home part time which makes this a lot easier. But even in the countryside, if you're capable and interested in learning new skills to a high degree of quality, which I am, there will always be people willing to help you put a roof over your head and food on your table.

Schools: I agree, you can't substitute a good education, but there are more ways to educate kids to a high level than sitting in a classroom. Scouts, Guides, 4H, Outward Bound, there are many stables that need stable hands, farms that need labour. There are endless numbers of lessons to be learned about working as a team, discipline to work on your own etc. etc. etc. There are many ways to effectively supplement their academics that they would never stand a chance of getting in the city. It just takes a different way of looking at things. That's not to say that the academic education kids get in the city is to be dismissed. But the more I hear about our inner city schools failing our kids, the more I wonder how effective they even are in this current climate.

Politics: This is very geo-specific. There are many liberal, conservative and more socialist leaning communities. It really depends on the demographic of that area and who the tax system is set up to benefit. The village I grew up in tended to be much more moderate... I'm not sure how to describe it actually, liberally conservative perhaps? We had a socialist mayor when I was growing up there and the closest town was quite metropolitan, but still enjoyed the benefits of the socialist leaning community that all looked out for one another. It was pretty much live and let live, help each other out, look after your neighbours, proud of their community and the town was very well kept and maintained. If an area is downright too conservative and that's not for you, I'd suggest not living there ;)

Even in rural areas, you can find much more in common with your neighbour than you think, regardless of their political sway, whether they're a hardcore biker or businessman, doctor, lawyer, farmer. We're all in this together, even if some of their ideals don't quite mesh with your own.

https://peperperspective.com/2017/02/01/we-are-more-alike-th...

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by baursak on Thursday February 02, 2017 @11:34AM (#13551814)
Thanks for your response. One thing I got curious about -- are you aware of any liberal or socialist leaning communities in rural Canada?
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by balabaster on Thursday February 02, 2017 @11:52AM (#13551985)
Most of Canada is pretty liberal leaning... especially since the Harper Government was ousted. Most of the country seem to like Trudeau pretty well.

Many of the more European leaning communities are much more inclusive of neighbours needs and looking after each other which is a more socialist type trait.

Let me clarify, when I say socialist, I don't mean the brand of socialism that's sold by American propaganda in the way Communism was in the 60's which caused everyone to be terrified of it. I mean the brand of socialism where everyone is not only happy to contribute and be taxed for the good of their community, to improve infrastructure, hospitals, education, waste services, emergency services etc. but they feel it's their duty to their community and do it proudly. Everyone feels it's their duty to ensure that nobody is left behind and mucks in to make it so.

Conservative everyone-out-for-themselves-and-fuck-everyone-else attitudes tends to be a much more American stance on Conservatism, even Conservatives here in Canada tend to be much more community minded and inclusive - it's enshrined in the culture here, "immigration and diversity is our strength." Especially in communities with a large youth contingent.

I'm guessing, so please take this with a grain of salt: I would say look at the age demographics of a community, the lower the median age, I would wager, the more likely the community is to lean more moderately or towards liberal or socialist ideals.

It has been my experience that French communities tend to lean more heavily towards the ideals of France, which are more socialist in that respect and the Polish people I know also seem to lean more heavily towards the ideals of Poland, which being European isn't a world different. Immigrants (in my experience) tend to favour what they grew up with and know. As an immigrant myself, I can understand that sentiment.

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by bigmanwalter on Thursday February 02, 2017 @10:08AM (#13550982)
That was beautiful :) I'm stealing your closing line.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by balabaster on Thursday February 02, 2017 @10:27AM (#13551123)
Thanks, I don't mind you stealing it ;)
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by ddoolin on Thursday February 02, 2017 @09:16AM (#13550596)
Often newer housing that is closer to the urban center where people work (something you typically do 5 times a week) but is also so much more affordable than living in the city. I think they have appeal, but only for the budget-minded.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by Noos on Thursday February 02, 2017 @11:31AM (#13551782)
but many suburbs don't have a HOA at all. I think some of the issue here is specifically upper-middle class problems. In my suburb its been just as it was when I grew up. Kids can play on the road easily, they live within walking distances of schools, etc,
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by SteveNuts on Thursday February 02, 2017 @02:43AM (#13548839)
Think past the suburbs...
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by m3rc on Wednesday February 01, 2017 @11:29PM (#13548121)
What, people who live in cities don't have freedom? And the user you replied to wasn't talking about space available like in a truly rural setting, they were talking about how it's impossible to live in a suburban or rural setting without centering your life around the car you drive.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by yen223 on Thursday February 02, 2017 @12:09AM (#13548265)
Cities offer more choices, rural areas offer more freedom
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by bravura on Thursday February 02, 2017 @01:59AM (#13548682)
Really? Have you tried wearing drag in a rural area?
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by throwanem on Thursday February 02, 2017 @05:45AM (#13549577)
Have you tried plinking cans in your backyard, or cleaning a deer, in a city?
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by icebraining on Thursday February 02, 2017 @08:58AM (#13550483)
That's a very specific case. Plinking cans would be illegal around here, except in a shooting range.

As for deer, does boar count? If so, then definitively.

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by throwanem on Thursday February 02, 2017 @09:10AM (#13550557)
I don't know where "here" is. But drag is a very specific case, too.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by cmdrfred on Thursday February 02, 2017 @08:29AM (#13550331)
I assure you that you won't be arrested for wearing drag in rural Pennsylvania, you will however be arrested in Philadelphia if you start a bonfire or ride a dirtbike in your backyard.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by couchand on Thursday February 02, 2017 @01:11AM (#13548505)
Oh, were it that simple.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by m3rc on Thursday February 02, 2017 @10:59AM (#13551415)
I don't know if I've ever seen "choices" and "freedom" framed as in opposition. And I don't see how having to pour money into a fossil fuel powered cage and having to keep your kids inside like this post talks about is helping in the directive of freedom.
Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by pjc50 on Thursday February 02, 2017 @04:38AM (#13549297)
What do you have the freedom to do that you can't do in a city, other than constraints of space and physical geography? Rurally you're still constrained by all that seemingly open land belonging to other people, plus the time constraints of getting to places.

You have fresh air, views, and quiet (provided you're not in the middle of an agribusiness rural area).

(Talking about "freedom" in the pure abstract is vague; freedom to/from what?)

Re:How Children Lost the Right to Roam in Just 4 Generations by distances on Thursday February 02, 2017 @09:20AM (#13550626)
I know this discussion is from the US point of view, but land belonging to other people is not a problem everywhere. Many countries (at least in Northern Europe) have "freedom to roam" [1] which in addition to actual roaming may include camping, picking berries and mushrooms, et cetera.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam