Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by paperpunk on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @05:21AM
(#13480224)
Is there any evidence for Night Shift/f.lux having impact on sleep? Last time I attempted a review I found plenty of explanations but no evidence.
A PNAS article about the use of e-Readers is often cited [0]. However, this compares a light emitting device to a book, and it's not clear how applicable it is to Night Shift vs. not Night Shift.
There is some research about the affects of light at different wavelengths on the human sleep cycle but I'm wary about using that as evidence for the efficacy of something like f.lux or Night Shift without specific studies done on their use in practice.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by thirdsun on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @06:21AM
(#13480507)
Don't know if it has effects on sleep, though anecdotally I sleep very well. However before using f.lux I experienced headaches from time to time after long days in front of various screens. It wasn't a regular occurrence but I'm pretty sure it was related to those long hours.
Since I started using f.lux all day (not just at night) several years ago those headaches have a been a thing of the past - it basically doesn't happen anymore.
I know f.lux is intended to be used in dark environments but since I rarely do color-sensitive work and prefer the lush, warmer color temperature (3800K for me), I see no reason to change my all-day use.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by paperpunk on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @06:16AM
(#13480475)
If it helps people to improve their hygiene, by placebo effect or otherwise, then that's a good thing.
However, I ask because I did try it for several months, and did not notice any effect other than the minor irritation of having to keep turning it off when I wanted to watch a film in the evening (and the constant malfunctioning of f.lux – although hopefully those issues would not be present in Night Shift).
I'm not sure I would be able to detect an improvement even if there is one though - there's too many confounding factors. So I'd like to see some evidence so I can make an informed decision.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by OskarS on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @10:07AM
(#13481931)
Yeah, I would be curious to see some real studies on that as well, I suspect that having a bright screen in your face is the problematic part, and that color temperature only make a very marginal difference, if any at all.
But honestly, I use it because I like it, not for any positive effects it may have on my sleep. It just makes it more pleasant to look at screens after nightfall. Also, seeing the screen change is a very pleasant "hey, stop looking at Twitter/HN and go to bed!" reminder.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by benologist on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @10:27AM
(#13482121)
Flux's biggest benefit for me was just making sleep something I thought about, what really works for me is not using screens for a good bit of time before bed. I can't quantify the days I wake up feeling great very well but I do feel the difference if I go to bed overstimulated from too much time on screens, arguing on the internet or whatever.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by citrusui on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:45AM
(#13478937)
First iOS 9.3, then Android 7.0, upcoming Windows Insider builds, and finally macOS Sierra 10.12.4. I hope the GNOME/Unity/Cinammon developers start implementing this too. f.lux works as expected, but it starts to get warmer around an hour before my iPhone does. Small issue, I know, but it does get annoying over time.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by Kostic on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @05:11AM
(#13480183)
Note that redshift currently does not work under GNOME3 when Gnome is running as a Wayland compositor. There is a feature request[1] for integrating this functionality into GNOME 3 (and even a nice mockup[2]).
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by AdmiralAsshat on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @09:58AM
(#13481845)
If memory serves, redshift is installed by default now with the Cinnamon DE (at least on Fedora).
If you're installing it, make sure to grab redshift-gtk as well, as it adds an icon to the system tray that makes it easy to toggle than command-line switches.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by elsen on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:54AM
(#13478990)
You may not know: on Unity you can saturate / desaturate the windows. I set them almost black and white and increase the saturation when I need it (shift + brigthness up / down).
I have no idea if it provide health benefits similar to the "orangy filters" but it's pretty nice on the eyes and, personally, it makes me happy to see the outside world with brighter colors than my screen.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by izacus on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @03:51AM
(#13479837)
The f.lux effect never looked as nice as the one on Android though - it looks like it just paints over another layer of orange color instead of removing the blue components when rendering. It makes my eyes hurt in the evening in a way that the night mode on my Pixel never does :/
Also it kicks in and gets really strong hours before I go to sleep.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by kamilner on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @04:55AM
(#13480106)
As far as I know only Android >=7 on hardware with a HWC 2 implementation support colour transforms [0], so all Android apps implementing a f.lux-style thing do exactly that, draw an orange rectangle over the screen.
F.lux on desktop has always worked that way though, I think. It should essentially be rendering the blue component substantially darker (up to removing it, depending on the temperature setting), instead of alpha blending with orange.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by on_and_off on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @08:55AM
(#13481348)
F.lux has no way to do this correctly on Android.
Luckily, since there was a lot of positive feedback to the implementation of this feature in the 7.0 preview, it has been backed at the driver level for 7.1.
Now the feature works perfectly and has no performance impact.
It also opens the door to a wide array of other modifications :
-color adjustements
-temperature shift
- color-blindness compensation
Basically you can apply any matrix you want on the screen output.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by wlesieutre on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @09:55AM
(#13481820)
My biggest disappointment with the new Macbook Pro is that it didn't include tunable color temperature for the keyboard. For an iPad, just changing the screen works because that's all it is. When your keyboard is a separate glowing thing, having your screen at 2200K and keys at 6500K looks awful. I used to turn the backlit keys off while running f.lux, but you're stuck with a touch bar at minimum now.
Oh well.
EDIT: Obviously the touch bar is full color and could be shifted like the screen. But because Apple's stance is that it's part of the keyboard, and the keyboard can't shift, I don't think they will. Curious if anyone's tested it though.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by dbg31415 on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @12:50AM
(#13478962)
Flux has been such a great tool. I love that Apple is copying that functionality and I hope the Flux team understands that imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by asendra on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @02:29AM
(#13479473)
Well, given that the Flux team has refused for years to allow us to configure the times and for how long it activates itself, I welcome Apple bringing this to the mac.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by asendra on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @07:33AM
(#13480865)
I read the other day a bullshity response in their forums like that their objective was to understand human behaviour not just set timers or something like that.
Edit:
- "Our goal is to further the understanding of human biology, not just turn things orange on a timer. It's a longer term undertaking and a much more difficult one."
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by TorKlingberg on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @10:37AM
(#13482204)
I always set my location some way to the south west to make f.lux dim later. Sweden in winter may get dark at 3 pm, but that doesn't mean I am going to bed.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by dan1234 on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @04:55AM
(#13480109)
Considering they’ve both implemented it, I’d guess Apple & Google have either already licensed the tech or decided the patent application has no merit.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by ClassyJacket on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @07:10AM
(#13480748)
I'm glad they added this. I was disappointed that it wasn't in the Sierra announcement. Guess they just needed a bit more time.
I will be glad to finally be able to dump Flux. It's mind-bogglingly insane, but Flux still doesn't allow you to set a custom start and end time. I certainly don't need my screen going orange a full six hours before I go to bed. So I'll be getting away from it onto this official one the day it's available.
I've tweeted them about it a few times, but they don't reply, and it's not open source, so I can't fix it myself.
Plus, Flux is incompatible with fullscreen YouTube on the Macbook Pro, which is a really big problem too.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by Sharlin on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @10:55AM
(#13482393)
The newest version finally does, sort of. It supports setting a "bedtime" color (and a custom time) independent of the "sunset" color, so you can have eg. 5500K in daytime, ~3500K in the evening (matching normal interior lighting), and ~2000K when it's actually bedtime. Or just set the same color for the first two.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by CalRobert on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @08:20AM
(#13481160)
Has anyone produced a screen that isn't backlit in recent years? I see there's a 13" e-ink display (https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/paperlike-world-s-first-e... ) but I don't know if it needs to be e-ink or simply not backlit. I worked last night to candle light and it was lovely; would like to be able to do the same on computer.
Perhaps it's worth finding an old monitor to kill the backlight on to try this out.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by throwanem on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @08:30AM
(#13481204)
You needn't bother. Having repaired a considerable number of displays with dead backlight inverters, I can say from experience that you won't be able to see anything.
(Light has to pass through an LCD in order to produce a perceptible image. Watch displays, pre-backlight Palm devices, non-backlit e-ink displays, and the like do this by reflecting back light that arrives through the screen. Computer displays all but universally do it with a backlight; without one, and without a reflective layer behind the LC layer, you see a blank black rectangle no matter what the crystal layer is doing.)
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by throwanem on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @09:05AM
(#13481412)
You'd be surprised. Getting good light reflection without also producing an image of the surroundings to conflict with the display is harder than it seems.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by dingo_bat on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @09:38AM
(#13481637)
Amoled screens can go really dim. As dim as reading by candlelight, while retaining most color detail. But I don't think we will get an amoled computer monitor anytime soon, if at all.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by anotherturn on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @02:23PM
(#13484978)
I've used f.lux but the problem I find is that if I'm unwinding in the evening watching some youtube / netflix on my laptop the colour shift is quite annoying.
By contrast, on my iphone I tend to not need accurate colour representation so the recently introduced Night Shift Mode is hardly noticed.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by ruminasean on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @09:19AM
(#13481499)
I'd love to see some form of universal dark mode or reverse mode on Macs and ios. Something that reverses backgrounds so I'm reading white text on black background. There are various workarounds, but it would be nice to not have to use them.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by anotherturn on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @09:37AM
(#13481636)
I've installed a firefox plugin that does this - just a few css rules for background color, text colour, etc. It totally ruins all the designy aspects of the web, but it makes reading a lot less tiring for my eyes.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by anotherturn on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @10:57AM
(#13482410)
Yes - that's the one. I've set it for the traditional dark background and green text (as I have for terminal, sublime, etc.). Does wonders for the eyes.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by thrusong on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @09:50AM
(#13481769)
This is hardly a scientific review, but I definitely feel like I've started sleeping better since I started using Night Shift on my phone and f.lux on my MacBook. I seem to fall asleep faster and I don't toss or turn as much.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by vonklaus on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @08:27AM
(#13481193)
It's tough to get excited about macOS. F.lux is 7 years old. I am running Yosemite and I have to keep my own installer for new machines & restoration.
I like nightshift, don't get me wrong, but I've never met someone who based their software ecosystem on a vendor provided way to change the color temp...
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by celerrimus on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @07:30AM
(#13480854)
Nice feature. And at this point i have dilemma, i stopped os x updates after Apple decided to remove remaining battery time. I like f.lux idea, but sometimes have some problems with it, so i would like to test Night Shift. Hope remaining time will return with future update
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by jvzr on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @08:52AM
(#13481326)
iStat Menus and CoconutBattery (to cite two options respectively paid and free) both provide menu bar indicators of remaining time. I've found iStat Menus' very consistent.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by scrapcode on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @07:39AM
(#13480892)
Do you have any reasons other than having a somewhat decent idea of how much time you have left? Battery power doesn't work on a time basis as power expenditure isn't consistent.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by hueving on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @09:23AM
(#13481529)
>Battery power doesn't work on a time basis as power expenditure isn't consistent
It can be quite consistent if you do very simple things (CPU-wise). SSH-ing into servers and working on them all day is pretty consistent in battery life on my MBP.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by Filligree on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @08:12AM
(#13481104)
My power expenditure is consistent: Most of the time when I'm on battery I'm typing in Scrivener, which leaves CPU use a flat 0%. (Presuming I've remembered to SIGSTOP Chrome.)
The battery life indicator was reliably accurate. I miss it.
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by jamessb on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @10:20AM
(#13482069)
Or to Watson (Sherlock/spotlight), Instapaper (Safari Reading List), Konfabulator/Yahoo Widgets (Dashboard), SecondBar (menu bars appear on all monitors since Mavericks), or TotalFinder (the Finder has had tabs since Mavericks).
Re:Night Shift Mode in macOS Sierra 10.12.4
by michelb on Wednesday January 25, 2017 @10:50AM
(#13482335)
It sure is not killed by Spotlight, I use many features in Alfred that are not available in Spotlight. Launching applications and doing simple tasks like calculations are possible with Spotlight. Snippets in Alfred work better than the OSX 'text' feature. Alfred with the Powerpack is really great.
A PNAS article about the use of e-Readers is often cited [0]. However, this compares a light emitting device to a book, and it's not clear how applicable it is to Night Shift vs. not Night Shift.
There is some research about the affects of light at different wavelengths on the human sleep cycle but I'm wary about using that as evidence for the efficacy of something like f.lux or Night Shift without specific studies done on their use in practice.
[0] http://www.pnas.org/content/112/4/1232.full.html
Since I started using f.lux all day (not just at night) several years ago those headaches have a been a thing of the past - it basically doesn't happen anymore.
I know f.lux is intended to be used in dark environments but since I rarely do color-sensitive work and prefer the lush, warmer color temperature (3800K for me), I see no reason to change my all-day use.
Anecdotally, Flux + Night Shift dramatically improved my longstanding insomnia. But that's just my anecdotal experience
However, I ask because I did try it for several months, and did not notice any effect other than the minor irritation of having to keep turning it off when I wanted to watch a film in the evening (and the constant malfunctioning of f.lux – although hopefully those issues would not be present in Night Shift).
I'm not sure I would be able to detect an improvement even if there is one though - there's too many confounding factors. So I'd like to see some evidence so I can make an informed decision.
But honestly, I use it because I like it, not for any positive effects it may have on my sleep. It just makes it more pleasant to look at screens after nightfall. Also, seeing the screen change is a very pleasant "hey, stop looking at Twitter/HN and go to bed!" reminder.
[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrinsically_photosensitive_r... nal_ganglion_cells
[1] http://jonls.dk/redshift/
[1] https://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=741224
[2] https://raw.githubusercontent.com/gnome-design-team/gnome-mo...
If you're installing it, make sure to grab redshift-gtk as well, as it adds an icon to the system tray that makes it easy to toggle than command-line switches.
I have no idea if it provide health benefits similar to the "orangy filters" but it's pretty nice on the eyes and, personally, it makes me happy to see the outside world with brighter colors than my screen.
Also it kicks in and gets really strong hours before I go to sleep.
Hopefully Apple themselves will do it better.
F.lux on desktop has always worked that way though, I think. It should essentially be rendering the blue component substantially darker (up to removing it, depending on the temperature setting), instead of alpha blending with orange.
[0] https://source.android.com/devices/tech/display/night-light....
Luckily, since there was a lot of positive feedback to the implementation of this feature in the 7.0 preview, it has been backed at the driver level for 7.1.
Now the feature works perfectly and has no performance impact.
It also opens the door to a wide array of other modifications :
-color adjustements
-temperature shift
- color-blindness compensation
Basically you can apply any matrix you want on the screen output.
Oh well.
EDIT: Obviously the touch bar is full color and could be shifted like the screen. But because Apple's stance is that it's part of the keyboard, and the keyboard can't shift, I don't think they will. Curious if anyone's tested it though.
My old office didn't get much external light, so I wrote this app to give me a sense of time of day. Now I have a better office I still use it.
This is the one reason I want to get away from Flux.
Does anyone know what their supposed motivation was for not letting us set the start and end time?
Edit:
- "Our goal is to further the understanding of human biology, not just turn things orange on a timer. It's a longer term undertaking and a much more difficult one."
https://forum.justgetflux.com/topic/237/custom-sunset-sunrus...
I will be glad to finally be able to dump Flux. It's mind-bogglingly insane, but Flux still doesn't allow you to set a custom start and end time. I certainly don't need my screen going orange a full six hours before I go to bed. So I'll be getting away from it onto this official one the day it's available.
I've tweeted them about it a few times, but they don't reply, and it's not open source, so I can't fix it myself.
Plus, Flux is incompatible with fullscreen YouTube on the Macbook Pro, which is a really big problem too.
Perhaps it's worth finding an old monitor to kill the backlight on to try this out.
(Light has to pass through an LCD in order to produce a perceptible image. Watch displays, pre-backlight Palm devices, non-backlit e-ink displays, and the like do this by reflecting back light that arrives through the screen. Computer displays all but universally do it with a backlight; without one, and without a reflective layer behind the LC layer, you see a blank black rectangle no matter what the crystal layer is doing.)
By contrast, on my iphone I tend to not need accurate colour representation so the recently introduced Night Shift Mode is hardly noticed.
System Preferences > Keyboard > Shortcuts, look under "Accessibility" for "invert colors"
You can also assign this to a hotkey to quickly toggle it on/off.
https://addons.mozilla.org/en-GB/android/addon/dark-backgrou...
I like nightshift, don't get me wrong, but I've never met someone who based their software ecosystem on a vendor provided way to change the color temp...
iStat Menus includes a battery menu item replacement that will show you the estimated remaining time.
It can be quite consistent if you do very simple things (CPU-wise). SSH-ing into servers and working on them all day is pretty consistent in battery life on my MBP.
The battery life indicator was reliably accurate. I miss it.
Why do you find this reason insufficient?