Not quite that it's "no threat", more like no additional threat than memorizing a long passphrase and downloading / decrypting your illegal Canadian porno on the other side.
> Similarly, there is no possible way to harm an airplane based on what is present on a laptop; and even if there were, you could buy in-flight WiFi and download the bits after boarding. You could cross the checkpoint with a blank device and in seconds have it populated with whatever you wanted to have. It’s insane.
It's not insane though. The point isn't to catch anything, it's to acclimate the populace to this type of search and seizure. Kind of like how refusing to go through the body scanners at the airport earns you "What's up with that guy?" looks from other travelers.
It's not enough to just re-install the OS. You have to have your hardware recycled (discarded). Within a couple of seconds, they can put spyware onto your firmware by simply inserting a prepared USB device. The only way to get rid of that kind of spyware is to destroy the hardware.
The other solution is to not travel to any totalitarian countries or to travel there without any hardware, if you must.
You should not acknowledge, recognize or legitimise these 'unnatural rights'.
Even more important to me is the fact that once you lose exclusive physical control over your hardware, you must consider it compromised, and therefor have it recycled (it is enough to simply connect a prepared USB device to your device for a couple of seconds in order for you to lose total control over it and be under permanent and total remote surveillance).
To me, this is more than enough of a reason to simply not travel to countries like the US (and now apparently Canada as well) anymore. And any such country certainly doesn't deserve us.
At an extreme - if you had a document plan_to_takedown_flight_123ABC.pdf or diary_about_my_drug_smuggling_operation.txt, whether or not the data itself is a threat, it could indicate that you are.
I mean, I think it's bullshit, the same way I think most security screening and border guard questioning is bullshit, but if you wanted to maximize your border security (and keep out, ahem, "undesirables") and don't care about people's privacy, it's perfectly logical.
If your threat model is that someone capable enough to take down a flight is dumb enough to keep "plan_to_takedown_flight_123ABC.pdf" on their laptop, then it's logical. Otherwise you're wasting resources and _minimizing_ your security.
I guess it depends on how much you care about your personal info or how sensitive your data is, but I wouldn't budge based on this. I'd say, "Okay, I want to talk to the American embassy," then wait it out.
Edit: To be clear, this would be my response without knowing anything about the relevant Canadian law — since I don't – because the statement sounds like a lie. LE lies all the time. Indefinite imprisonment of a random person? Nah. And breaking into a locked phone is actually very difficult — see Apple versus FBI.
This is not true. You've already entered the country, and so the border staff (US, Canadian, whoever) can indeed detain you, throw you into immigration detention, take all your stuff, really whatever they want. You don't have any rights. You could call your embassy, but they will tell you that so long as the other country is following its own laws, you're stuck, and they can't help you.
If you don't like it, don't go.
http://www.parl.gc.ca/HousePublications/Publication.aspx?Lan...
Even if you decide not to enter as opposed to being denied I bet it pops up on their screen for a long time.
If a border agent threatened me with jail, I don't think that being unable to return would be a problem for me. :-)
(Disclaimer: having no family in Canada, or any real need to be there.)
No, just like the US:
https://www.aclu.org/other/constitution-100-mile-border-zone
A non citizen can be refused entry but they absolutely have a right to not be arbitrarily detained.
[1]http://www.fondationtrudeau.ca/sites/default/files/u5/articl...
But I'm not seeing where "non citizens have no rights" or the court says that whole sections cannot be applied to non-citizens and the word everyone doesn't mean what we think. In fact I'm seeing some rulings where the court acknowledged for example that equality rights do apply to non citizens.
I am seeing a case where they allowed someone to be detained, but it seems they found a way to decide that the restriction was reasonable and therefore constitutional, but they didn't decide that non-citizens cannot benefit from this right.
You'd be waiting forever.
This kind of stuff happens all day, every day, at every one of the major border crossings.
You'd be denied entry and that would be the end of it.
"I might end up waiting weeks or months, though."
The American embassy will tell you there's nothing they can do, and you'd be waiting in perpetuity in a hotel on the American side of the border.
The thing is, you may not have such 'rights', at least not in a legal sense. I suggest the duderinos at the border are well aware of what they can, and cannot do.
If you have a beef, it's with Homeland Security or Congress, not the border guy.
And if you're entering a foreign country ... well, your legal rights are pretty thin. So there's that.
PR Storm? This is the first I've read about it, and it's the NY Times. I don't see anything relating to it on CBC, Globe or National Post sites. Nothing on CBC Radio 1 in my drive to or from work, either.
I normally wipe my devices while crossing the border, phone and laptop but one time while I was doing a much shorter round trip, I decided not to wipe my phone.
on my way into Canada, i was identified for enhanced screening at like 10pm, After waiting an hour, the agent asked for my return flight ticket, which I didn't have printed. so it's late, im dangerously close to missing my connection, and I think, "Oh! I probably have the confirmation email on my phone!"
So i pull out my trusty CIA surveillance device, unlock it, and pull up the confirmation email. The agent then takes it directly out of my hands and walks into the back. I don't know how long he was gone (long enough to miss my flight) but when he came back he had a bunch of questions about a girl I had been texting and who had sent me some provocative photos. I don't know that helped Canada's national security but sure, whatever.
To be fair, the US CBP has never taken any devices from me but they do stop me routinely and dump my bag and ask all sorts of ridiculous questions. I used to fight it but now I just sit/stand quietly until they are done. On my latest trip, i guess I was too polite so the agent decided that was suspicious. His face got all twisted as he began asking me the questions.
There are no rights at the border so don't cross with anything.
pretty ambiguous.
Everything I need I can download again, or log back into. working out 2fa was a blessing and a curse. decoupling it from sms has been great but I do rely on a centralized service to store a theoretically encrypted backup. I'm lucky to have a pretty decent memory, so I everything else I just remember.
I guess the part that is the most frustrating is that as a result I don't really save or take many pictures. i don't backup or save any additional contacts. I don't save anything important in messaging applications. Oh, and I can't decrypt pgp communications when I'm out of the country, because like hell I'm bringing that accross the border.
I've had my encounters with law enforcement, I won't ever feel comfortable again. I'll never forget the look on their faces when they look at you like they know something super private and they find it hilarious.
^Can make an image of that too for ease of use on future trips.
Of course, if they can do this, there's nothing really stopping them from forcing you to log into your webmail either, so maybe there's nothing you can ultimately do. (At least short of creating elaborate decoy accounts, but then you're actively lying to them, which probably isn't a great idea.)
Also, I tend to use my phone a lot when I'm traveling, so I'd like to have it!
I immediately started using TrueCrypt with the plausible deniability option, which allows you to enter an alternate password to open a completely different part of the encrypted area seeded with some random files that look realistic enough to pass scrutiny.
It was always fun to unmount the volume and remount it with the plausible deniability volume. Or, just shutting down before crossing the border and knowing that, if needed, I'd enter the alternate password.
Recently I started using a Mac and Apple's own full disk encryption, but reading this just highlights the risk. Maybe I should start using TrueCrypt again.
Ugh...it's frustrating.
These searches, if true, have nothing to do with border security and more to do with fishing for anything and everything they can charge you with once they aren't encumbered with warrants and courts and due process.
With obscenity laws and laws outlawing certain drawings and such, porn is just the low hanging fruit.
Make a second password which "unlocks" the phone to some innocuous mode that won't hold the meatheads attention any longer.
Assuming you aren't specifically targeted.
Also, if driving a nice car was the key to getting past BP, drug smugglers would have figured this out ages ago and adopted it as SOP.
Pulling over a driver and pointing a gun at them? Trivial. Pulling over a livery vehicle and searching the passenger? Complicated. Demanding someone in a car give you their phone's password? Trivial. Doing the same at the airport? My weekends filled for a month hosting fundraisers for PACs.
I have SSD drive that I use in States. Once I'm ready to go, I swap it with "empty" drive and fire up the OS just to get some updates on files on it, so it doesn't look like it hasn't been used for a long time.
Once in Europe, I put the drive that has more tools and my files I use daily. I also use personal DropBox and the most important files are sync over the net when I login from Europe.
As to the phone - my network doesn't work in Europe anyways, so instead of selling/throwing away my perfectly working Iphone5, I use it in Europe and my new phone I leave in states.
Moreover I cannot say much about driving to Canada, but I was tempted once with saving $150 on a ticket and flying to Europe through Montreal instead of Chicago. That was horrible mistake. That airport is super disorganized and there is literally no staff to help you. No other information than to research for yourself. Few years ago some guy got teased to death because he was so frustrated and I don't blame him...
As of the phone in US, I have jailbroken version with an app that allows me to do a triple-click to shut it down completely. I got used to using this trick when I'm pulled over by LE or entering airports or other places... just in case!
I don't think I would ever give out my password without talking to a lawyer first.
I reasoned that an old Blackberry is good because there really isn't much you can do with it beyond text/email/web. And it makes me look like a tech-illiterate luddite.
"Oh, you brought an empty phone? Give me access to your cloud account. No? Ok, you're never entering our country. Bye."
But don't be mistaken, that based on the Snowden revelations, "they" may not have already had it, and needed another country's intelligence agency to access it first -- for them to get to whatever it might be, and possibly even use it against you, legally.
It's also quite unlikely that they can circumvent a basic `tar -c /dev/block/* | gpg -se ...` scheme that's trivially doable on unlockable Android phones. (Replacing the bootloader with a maliciously crafted variant that returns false partition data after bootup would work, but once again: CBSA.)
You're probably safe if you just do an iCloud backup and wipe followed later by a restore.
Certainly do replace the SIM card as soon as possible though, IMO. Unless you can verify it somehow.
How is a cell phone any different?
Asking for passwords to Facebook accounts or other information that isn't on your phone, now that's another story.
When crossing the border... backup and factory reset. Don't carry anything with you over the border you don't want customs officers looking at. I just hang onto one of my older phones to use when I travel.
When your phone is taken away after they forced you enter SU level password, you have no control of it, they do.
Whoever took it inside the room, they can:
>Browser your email, check who you contacted since you have you email box: Why you bought this on amazon? Why you bought that from Ebay? For what reason you purchase two pressure cookers from and nails from Walmart at the same time?
>Check your contacts: Who is Mr.X? When was the last time you talk to Mr. Y? What was in the conversation?
>Check what you have posted on facebook/Twitter. You supported Aaron Swartz? You are in the protest called The Day we Fight Back? What was the protest about? Who you are with?
>You may have home security Cam APP installed: Who sitting in the sofa? How many rooms do you have? Is this your wife? What is her social security number? What is her first name? On the day of Feb 21, 2013, who are the two male visited your home? What's their name and what's the purpose of the visit? How long they stayed in your house? What car they are diving? What is the plate number?
>Copy all your photos for further investation.
>Install Spyware, Copy your RSA key stored in your phone.
Border staff often have a set of rules they have to follow, a lot of it is to ward off attempts at illegal migration.
Getting into America or Canada via that border is rather common.
When I was at the Canadian border once, a woman from Jamaica, with a carload of luggage was denied entry essentially on the same basis - no proof of return travel, reservations etc. - they essentially suspected she was trying to gain illegal status. Which is not entirely unreasonable in that case, but even then, tricky.
The rough part is how normal folks get caught up in the policies.
The one about dope is particularly pernicious - if you admit to 'having ever smoked dope' to American border agents - they can deny you entry for quite a long time. That one's a little crazy-crazy if you ask me, just a bad policy.
Surely being from Jamaica is a thing that normal folks do, if that's where they're from.
B) A lone Jamaican, with a car full of luggage
C) No travel reservations
D) Jamaica is a poor country, likely higher rates of immigration issues.
These are red flags.
The 'border game' is a game of probabilities.
When I moved to Norway from the US, I had to have a return flight booked to get entry into the country the first time, otherwise there is a chance of being denied entry, which can really ruin your chances for immigration.
In moments like this, I'm happy to be employed by a large company that has a strong vested interest against people snooping through my emails.
If such a situation were to happen in my case, I would just reply "I cannot do that as this phone belongs to $company. My employer knows of my travel itinerary and if I am delayed they will be very happy to send lawyers to sort things out."
It's sad and dystopian, but I trust my employer to watch out for my interests more so than any government.
I don't get it. Are you a journalist, too?
https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/employment/media.h...
Laws like this are silly, horrible, and have no place in a democracy. Even disgusting speech ought to be defended.
Canada, the UK and NZ (edit: and Australia, where someone was, I believe, jailed for having "Simpsons porn" on his computer) are places that I know have laws like this. As a citizen of one of these places, it worries me greatly, even though I am not interested in such drawings. It actually enrages me, far more than any other problem in the Western world.
Please be careful when crossing borders.
I agree. Furthermore, to the best of my knowledge I would guess these cases would not hold up to the scrutiny of the supreme court, if they were ever brought there.
As a non legal expert, my reading has been that the Supreme Court usually has, at least in the past, set a very high bar in ruling against free expression, see: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Memoirs_v._Massachusetts
Maybe someone has a more educated opinion than I, though.
I really don't want to see our Bill of Rights torn apart. As one user said here, they have a theory these policies serve a purpose to acclimate us to a new kind of authoritarian government. I have a lot of personal family pride in fighting for civil and human rights, and I am personally troubled by what seems to be an ever-steady march towards 1984, if we're not already there.
> Canada, the UK and NZ (edit: and Australia, where someone was, I believe, jailed for having "Simpsons porn" on his computer) are places that I know have laws like this.
By the way, NZ is particularly outrageous and ridiculous with these laws. What I find particularly bemusing is that while in NZ has they can ban a book for mainstream sexual content with little quarrel, Auckland has a visible prostitution market. I'm not necessarily saying one thing or another about prostitution, but I think it says something about the recklessness with free speech there. Their failed War on Drugs is also outrageous, arguably the highest per-capita WoD programs in the world, and is expanding.
> it's never really an issue here.
Fair enough, but I think that's an opinion we just disagree on.
Someone posted under this topic the idea that the point of these violations of civil liberties, even if "they aren't really an issue," is exactly that: to acclimate us to think, "it's not really an issue."
Freedom of expression is something I believe we are very lucky to have, people have fought and died for much lesser freedoms. Banning books is a threatening move by government and something that should happen only in utterly extreme circumstances, if at all. In this case, Auckland has not just a legal, but a visible, obvious prostitution market. I think the age of consent there is even 16(?) yet that same teenager couldn't even buy this book on the topic of sex. It's very much just kind of ridiculous.
The country also spends just about the most in the world on its War on Drugs (per capita), so maybe it's no wonder the police didn't have the time when one friendly traveller at a hostel got his orbital bone broken by some local thugs, or when at another hostel someone had their backpack stolen.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6y_5b1JsIs4
It's probably best to not draw attention to yourself when crossing borders. i.e., don't wear a giant tail when talking to border guards.
https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/cnslttns/ntnl-scrt/thm09-...
Then you get detained. Indefinitely if they believe you to be lying.
Do you think they'll let you go with this excuse?
In any case, this was extremely intrusive and I couldn't stop thinking about it the whole trip. I wondered what would happen if I had actually forgotten my phone password - just weeks before I changed from a 6 digit numeric code to a longer alphanumeric and almost forgot it since it had been a while since the last time I restarted my phone requiring password entry. I had a lot of very private photos and conversations on there with my SO. Definitely ruined my whole vacation.
Edit: Also, they didn't just stick to private photos and messages, they even opened up dating apps checking for messages there, opened up unread snap and kik messages too.