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Re:Buffer Layoffs by minimaxir on Thursday June 16, 2016 @04:33PM (#11918668)
While Buffer's transparency is incredible, the financial calculations in the article fail to account for the possibility of an employee exodus domino effect, especially after both knowing the financial state of the company, and relevant perks being cut.
Re:Buffer Layoffs by btilly on Thursday June 16, 2016 @04:56PM (#11918796)
Machiavelli's _The Prince_ has excellent advice on this topic.

If you must do bad things, do them all at once. Then create a steady stream of better than expected events. People will get over the shock of the bad, and will remember the good.

By contrast if you try to hold back some of the bad, it will drip out bit by bit. Then people will get scared about where the real bottom is.

Re:Buffer Layoffs by abraae on Thursday June 16, 2016 @05:28PM (#11919024)
Such a great book.

I've seen his tactics play our over and over again during my working lifetime.

Re:Buffer Layoffs by rhizome on Thursday June 16, 2016 @07:05PM (#11919593)
From what I've experienced, I'd like to see both "The Prince" and "The Art of War" banished from the world of business.
Re:Buffer Layoffs by nvader on Friday June 17, 2016 @04:05AM (#11921222)
Might as well ask for the concepts of arithmetic, the necessity of work, or the 24 hour cycle of day and night to be banished. Machiavelli's aim was to catalogue how people actually acted, rather than dictate how they should act. He makes an observation of human nature, and suggests ways of dealing with it.

That's not to say that there may not be better approaches, in some aspects. In my mind I organise Getting to Yes and How to Win Friends as books that are complementary, yet approach the problem from a co-operative perspective.

But we haven't totally vanquished that part of ourselves that the Art of War and the Prince were written to deal with. Even if you banned these books, people would independently derive their principles.

Re:Buffer Layoffs by 1123581321 on Friday June 17, 2016 @10:45AM (#11922905)
I want to be sure I understand your central objection to these books. I take it that your objection isn't that trying to succeed is bad. You also probably wouldn't say that the particular advice in these books is bad, though that's an interesting discussion if you do. I'm also guessing you don't have an objection to old books in general, or to business advice in general. Is your objection that these books give advice for preventing and resolving competitive situations, and you believe it's better to not compete in business than to compete and win? This is an opinion I've encountered in places like Metafilter. (Seen you there!)
Re:Buffer Layoffs by btilly on Friday June 17, 2016 @11:55AM (#11923371)
The Prince in particular is full of advice that runs counter to nice things we wish to believe about ourselves. That is where the phrase "Machievellian" comes from.

For example who among us wants to believe that once we come to power we should distrust those who got us there, and look for our best allies among those who had opposed us? Yet again and again in actual organizations those who think they are owed will try to take advantage of the situation, while those who have reason to fear that they never can be trusted will overcompensate for that.

Re:Buffer Layoffs by nibs on Friday June 17, 2016 @10:58AM (#11922990)
Art of War is only useful in a short list of highly competitive scenarios. Most business is surprisingly not that zero-sum. And The Price is mostly useful dealing with the father/son business dynamic. Not that relevant otherwise.
Re:Buffer Layoffs by btilly on Friday June 17, 2016 @11:52AM (#11923348)
Not so.

The Prince is relevant in any organization where a strict hierarchy needs to be maintained. Which is why it was relevant here to the question of how a CEO who needs to implement a painful decision (in this case big financial cuts including laying people off) should go about it.

Re:Buffer Layoffs by aioprisan on Thursday June 16, 2016 @08:51PM (#11920032)
What do you mean by banished from the world of business? I've seen variations of the core principles applied at every company I've worked for so far.
Re:Buffer Layoffs by rhizome on Friday June 17, 2016 @03:53AM (#11921197)
Me too, and I think they cause more problems than they solve.
Re:Buffer Layoffs by btilly on Friday June 17, 2016 @01:23PM (#11924023)
I agree, but why?

My take is that the advice in those books is great advice for those seeking to gain and hold power in organizations. All else being equal, you should want the person running your organization to have mastered those ideas and be able to apply them productively for your organization.

That said, having an organization full of people who want to gain and hold power is a very, very bad thing. While you want the people at the top to do so, you don't want every Tom, Dick and Harry with a big ego doing so. So you are going to see an anti-pattern where a bunch of people who have no business trying to play Machiavellian games, attempt to do so. And part of the the reason why they should not do so is that they are not suited by temperament or competence.

Re:Buffer Layoffs by rhizome on Friday June 17, 2016 @04:51PM (#11925472)
you are going to see an anti-pattern where a bunch of people who have no business trying to play Machiavellian games, attempt to do so.

We aren't going to see it, we already see it every day. The books are poison.

Re:Buffer Layoffs by hguant on Thursday June 16, 2016 @04:40PM (#11918712)
I would actually think the opposite: if you're a buffer employee right now, you know a) the company will continue to exist b) that you're a valuable asset to the company and c) that your founders walk the walk when it comes to transparency and information sharing.

I'd assume a few people will leave for better offers in the next few weeks, but this seems to prove that the founders are dedicated to the company and can learn from mistakes - hardly the prompt for a mass exodus.

Re:Buffer Layoffs by bovermyer on Thursday June 16, 2016 @04:45PM (#11918742)
Not only that, but the founders themselves took a 40% pay cut each for the next year. That says to me that they value their employees enough that they chose that route rather than lay off an additional person. It's a strong gesture.
Re:Buffer Layoffs by abglassman on Thursday June 16, 2016 @05:06PM (#11918864)
And the founders each loaned the company $100k out of their own pockets at "the lowest possible interest rate."

There's a lot of laudable humility and self-accountability in this post and the actions they've taken.

Re:Buffer Layoffs by qmr on Friday June 17, 2016 @05:33PM (#11925703)
I read that as weasel word bullshit. The lowest possible rate would be 0.
Re:Buffer Layoffs by disordinary on Friday June 17, 2016 @03:30AM (#11921152)
Except it seems as though they all signed up to be at a company that was transparent and practiced a certain way of doing business (and actually pushes it as one of the great reasons to work there) and then you find out it was all a lie and that management was hiding information from you as suited them. By their own admission the layoffs came out of the blue to staff despite the fact that they were deliberating on it for a while.

If they practiced what they preached they would have laid it all out early. Some people may have had other opportunities and left, others might have said that they would take a paycut for the greater good, etc.

What this may mean, is that some staff members think that the company isn't actually what it says it is, isn't genuine in its approach, and that they can't trust it to live up to it's values when the going does get tough.

Re:Buffer Layoffs by fideloper on Thursday June 16, 2016 @04:42PM (#11918722)
From the outside looking in, I think I'd stay (if I was not laid off :D) because Buffer is transparent, because they refuse to be unprofitable, and because they aren't beholden to VC's.

In my book, Buffer's doing it "more correctly" than many start ups.

Re:Buffer Layoffs by toomuchtodo on Thursday June 16, 2016 @04:35PM (#11918687)
Is it possible to stem an employee exodus when fully transparent? I don't think so. It only works when there's a level of information asymmetry.
Re:Buffer Layoffs by dasil003 on Thursday June 16, 2016 @04:40PM (#11918714)
I don't follow your thinking at all. You're assuming that the truth is always so horrible that management can never fully reveal it, and your not accounting for the whiff of secrecy and gossip that can be much worse than the actual withheld information.
Re:Buffer Layoffs by toomuchtodo on Thursday June 16, 2016 @04:43PM (#11918729)
Perhaps its because I've been at more failed companies than most? Regardless of transparency vs secrecy, you reach a tipping point where the situation "feels" dire enough that employees leaving accelerates. I'm sure it depends on the demographics of the org, employees with families, mortgages, etc are willing to stick out volatility far less (in my experience) than employees with no obligations.

Anecdotal of course! I'd love to have more data on this to find out what that tipping point is.

Re:Buffer Layoffs by dasil003 on Thursday June 16, 2016 @05:08PM (#11918877)
I agree with everything you said. But it doesn't address why you think secrecy is always necessary.
Re:Buffer Layoffs by toomuchtodo on Thursday June 16, 2016 @05:13PM (#11918907)
If you work because you need a job, and your company is transparent, and its in a financially precarious state, why would you stay?
Re:Buffer Layoffs by dasil003 on Thursday June 16, 2016 @05:30PM (#11919039)
In this case though, the graph shows that the layoffs are bringing Buffer to profitability. If they kept that secret and just told the employees not to worry, they would be just as likely to assume that management was merely decreasing the burn, in which case their assumption would be worse than reality. Secrecy cuts both ways.
Re:Buffer Layoffs by st3v3r on Thursday June 16, 2016 @05:52PM (#11919153)
I fail to see what the problem is here.
Re:Buffer Layoffs by st3v3r on Thursday June 16, 2016 @05:51PM (#11919147)
I think it is, unless your situation is so terrible where you don't think you'll be around in 3-6 months.
Re:Buffer Layoffs by danielvf on Thursday June 16, 2016 @04:58PM (#11918808)
Given that the new statistics show that the company is now cashflow positive and continuing to grow, I don't think a mass exodus is likely.
Re:Buffer Layoffs by Animats on Thursday June 16, 2016 @05:44PM (#11919113)
Right. In general, if you have a layoff and the job market isn't extremely tight, you will also lose some other employees you wanted to keep. Especially the ones who see that top management's plans aren't working and it's time to jump ship.
Re:Buffer Layoffs by georgiecasey on Thursday June 16, 2016 @09:28PM (#11920142)
https://open.buffer.com/hiring-at-buffer-in-february-2024-ap...

i wouldn't be worried about an employee exodus as they get loads of applications as is. and everyone is replaceable IMO.

the company fascinates me with their high salaries for customer service and relative low salaries for engineering. from that post, they've way more applications for customer service than engineering. why not save money by paying way less?

Re:Buffer Layoffs by ryanSrich on Thursday June 16, 2016 @11:05PM (#11920465)
So just hire more people? No one is irreplaceable. Buffer is a very well known, and well regarded startup. An employee exodus would be a minor hiccup (and something that is very unlikely to happen at all).