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Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by bjacobel on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @05:48PM (#10194859)
The really galling part is the total refusal to admit they're not doing anything innovative. "There has never been another product like the iPad Pro before" was a real quote from today's presentation, and is a complete falsehood.
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by IkmoIkmo on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @06:10PM (#10194982)
It's not a complete falsehood but it's a totally empty statement.

Virtually any device you put out that's not exactly, spec-by-spec the same, you can say 'never been a product like this before'. It's true and empty.

They do a lot of those, they're true, hyperbolic, and totally devoid of any significance.

For example they'll say 'the iPhone 6 was the most popular iPhone ... EVER'. As if it's significant. But that's completely unexpected and it's not news, either. I'll happily take a 10 trillion dollar bet that the iPhone 7 will sell even better. And that the new Galaxy S 6 sells better than the 5, and the 7 will sell better than the 6, too.

Or they'll say the iPhone 6S is the most advanced iPhone ... EVER. As if, again, that's news. As if we think they built a 6S that's worse than the 6.

It's a truthful, hyperbolic, totally insignificant statement. It's different from a falsehood.

Calling a 3 second video, a photo, in the sense that it's a bunch of photo frames, that's more of a direct falsehood to me. We use the word photo to denote a still image, and video for multiple frames of photos. But that's a marketing gimmick that's more ridiculous than it is disingenuous.

As for innovation, I mostly agree. The ability to execute extremely well and polish your work isn't innovation. It can be driven by innovations of course but it's not the kind of innovation we talk about when we refer to Apple's history. Since the iPhone 4 I've mostly felt a ton of polish but no real breakthroughs on the phone department for example, tablet wise... mostly just solid iterations like everyone else, nothing fundamentally innovative about the iPad 4 or Air or mini, really. Pro feels like more of the same, split screen we've seen before, styluses we've seen before. Again, executed well and polished.

I mean of course there's innovation, but it's not what sets them apart. Look at Force Touch for example, now 3D touch. People probably missed the fact Huawei demo'd force touch last week on their android phone. And that's a feature we'd think of as their innovation. Others, like a large tablet, split screen, type covers, wireless charging, a stylus, 3-second videos (called live photos) etc are all seen before.

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by rdancer on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @07:40PM (#10195363)
Their ability to churn out better and better devices, year after year, is what's remarkable. That we come to expect it, and don't consider it news, is a testament to their achievement. This is not normal; the industry -- both hardware & software -- is plagued with regressions, with many older models or releases that are preferred by the users to newer ones. Apple are truly unique in their ability to deliver improvements, introduce new technologies, and implement existing technologies in ways that are actually usable, while keeping regressions and serious problems low, much lower than the competition.

What's the best Microsoft desktop OS? Which is the best Dell screen? Which is the best keyboard? Motorola phone? The current year's Apple lineup has always been better than the last year's, and that's what the "best ever" statements mean to me, and I believe that's what they mean to the target audience: "This is new, and it works at least as well as the old stuff."

Which other company, which other product line of comparable complexity, introduces features without compromising usability?

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by ux-app on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @09:43PM (#10195747)
> Apple are truly unique in their ability to deliver improvements, introduce new technologies, and implement existing technologies in ways that are actually usable, while keeping regressions and serious problems low, much lower than the competition.

I like Apple products as much as the next guy, but cmon, this is some serious kool-aid drinking here.

Apple doesn't produce software that is any less issue prone than any other vendor. In fact the chorus complaining about software regressions has been getting louder and louder, even from Apple fans.

Yosemite was a particularly low point with regard to Apple software.

http://fieldguide.gizmodo.com/the-worst-bugs-in-os-x-yosemit...

http://www.tekrevue.com/yosemite-bugs-time-for-another-snow-...

Software is hard. Apple aren't special, their software has just as many issues as any other vendor's, which is actually kind of disappointing given they have full control of the hardware, MS actually does a lot better with regard to software quality given the varied HW landscape Windows is deployed to.

Edit: Software quality isn't just a Yosemite issue with Apple, it's a long running joke that you should never install a X.0 OSX release due to bugs.

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by ams6110 on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @08:31PM (#10195533)
Well cars get better every year, so do appliances, so does just about every consumer product if you're not talking about Walmart-type "price is all that matters" stuff.

I don't think it's remarkable at all. It would be remarkable if they weren't getting better year after year.

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by coldtea on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @06:23PM (#10195056)
>For example they'll say 'the iPhone 6 was the most popular iPhone ... EVER'. As if it's significant. But that's completely unexpected and it's not news, either. I'll happily take a 10 trillion dollar bet that the iPhone 7 will sell even better. And that the new Galaxy S 6 sells better than the 5, and the 7 will sell better than the 6, too.

You understand that sales growth can't last forever right?

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by hkmurakami on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @06:46PM (#10195162)
It's limited by global macroeconomics, which is still raising its ceilings.
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by coldtea on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @08:15PM (#10195482)
Actually it's also limited by tons of factors: competition, fashion, etc. People have been announcing the "end" of the iPhone and iPhone killers ever since 2008 (that was BS of course, but it still can happen that some revision, e.g. 6s sells less than the previous).

iPad for example has had that happening to it (later revision sold less well).

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by developer1 on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @11:24PM (#10196012)
iPad is much more niche compared to iPhone. Not everyone wants/needs a consumer device to lounge around with for the price point. Everyone wants a phone. And to people like me, the iPad keyboard is simply unusable in landscape mode. Has this changed? No idea why they insist(ed) on stretching the keyboard across the entire screen instead of leaving half of the keyboard accessible to either side with thumbs. Even if the keyboard has been updated, the larger form factors are just too large and clunky for 2-handed use.
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by realityking on Thursday September 10, 2015 @07:48AM (#10197458)
You can tear apart the keyboard in two halves you can use with either thumb. Admittedly a well hidden feature.
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by developer1 on Tuesday September 15, 2015 @09:44PM (#10224222)
Hrm, I'll have to try one out with that setting. I have both a MacBook Pro and an iPhone, but being able to watch video on a tablet while lounging around would admittedly be nice. I suspect the device will still be too bulky and heavy to comfortably type on for longer than a minute at a time, even if the keyboard allows for it. I'm always puzzled when I see a photo of someone typing with 2 hands on a tablet while lying down. I can't imagine physically arranging myself in such a way that this is even possible.
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by bostonpete on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @07:42PM (#10195369)
Well, at some point it's limited by population...
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by conception on Thursday September 10, 2015 @01:27AM (#10196259)
Not really unless we hit zero population growth world-wide. Otherwise, there will always be more people to buy.
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by lotu on Thursday September 10, 2015 @04:43AM (#10196838)
We are likely to hit zero global population grown sometime between 2040 and 2070. It's not around the corner but I hoping to still be alive at that point. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Projections_of_population_grow...
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by TallGuyShort on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @06:44PM (#10195157)
But as long as it lasts, they can make statements like that while ignoring any other trends that explain the popularity and make their marketing pitch sound more impressive.
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by austenallred on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @07:08PM (#10195258)
I mean, the fact that they continue to sell more iPhones than they ever have of each new model says something. A lot of companies' popularity only lasts one or two product cycles.
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by jedrek on Thursday September 10, 2015 @02:54AM (#10196460)
What is this obsession with thinking that Apple (or any business) should present new products by going... "well, shucks, this is kinda crap, but we had a production plan to meet. Sorry, it's not very good..."

Of course they're selling the hell out of it, that's what companies that take in billions of dollars do: make a decent product and then promote it. At least the stuff Apple makes usually works and the features they add into their products are actually useful - yeah, I'm looking at you, Samsung, and your list of Samsung XXX functions that were obviously designed and implemented over a weekend.

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by mbreese on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @05:59PM (#10194927)
There has never been a product like it before. No one else has ever made an iOS tablet like it. :)

It's an admittedly nuanced statement, but not an outright falsehood.

I don't think anyone in that room took it for anything else - they've all seen the Samsung and Microsoft tablets that inspired the Pro. Just like they were inspired by the original iPad, which was inspired by... which was inspired by... etc...

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by chmike on Thursday September 10, 2015 @04:21AM (#10196761)
This is an inductive statement very close to the doubly linked assertion presented by [Dr Milton Erickson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milton_Erickson) from witch the academic example is "Save money, buy now". Here the induced assertion is "There has never been a product like it before" which is obviously false. This is beyond marketing. It is manipulative talk.

In my opinion, this should be made illegal. We have seen in Germany during the years 1935 to 1945, and more recently with ISIS, what manipulative talk could lead people to do.

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by jedmeyers on Thursday September 10, 2015 @12:47PM (#10199135)
Who will separate 'manipulative talk' from 'marketing' or other types of speech?
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by chmike on Thursday September 17, 2015 @04:52AM (#10232271)
False advertising is a misdemeanor crime. You can be fined up to $5,000 for it and spend six months in jail, or more if it’s your second offense.
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by infinite8s on Thursday September 10, 2015 @06:11PM (#10200890)
The Department of Truth.
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by tyrust on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @06:09PM (#10194974)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lie#Lying_by_omission

>I don't think anyone in that room took it for anything else - they've all seen the Samsung and Microsoft tablets that inspired the Pro.

Perhaps that's true for a room of tech experts and media. As for the thousands of common consumers watching at home, they may not draw the same conclusions.

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by gress on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @10:10PM (#10195831)
You do realize that the iPad was the first mass market multi-touch tablet, and that the Samsung and Microsoft tablets were introduced as a response to its success?
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by coldtea on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @06:22PM (#10195048)
It's marketing. And when it comes to marketing its far more true than that Lynx will get you laid (lol), or that some new detergent will revolutionaze how clean your clothes are, or that some GAP clothes will make you part of the "in" crowd.

It's also depends on the level we're talking. If we just take "product like the iPad pro" to mean "a large tablet" then yes it's a "complete falsehood".

But it obviously means "a large tablet with this attention to detail, with the supporting OS and app ecosystem finely tuned to work along with it". Which is true -- as all Surface tablets I've seen are if not subpar, different in several ways.

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by rdancer on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @07:58PM (#10195426)
> Lynx will get you laid

Oh yes, it will. Getting teen-agers to start applying basic precepts of personal hygiene is like trying to drill an oil well with a toothbrush. Those commercials get it exactly right: (1) you stink (2) only men who don't stink get laid (3) use a bloody deodorant, you testosterone-laden pig!

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by jann on Thursday September 10, 2015 @05:07AM (#10196918)
Note: Lynx is called Axe in other countries.

I was just thinking how a terminal web browser gets you laid :)

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by TeMPOraL on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @07:15PM (#10195287)
> It's marketing. And when it comes to marketing its far more true than that Lynx will get you laid (lol), or that some new detergent will revolutionaze how clean your clothes are, or that some GAP clothes will make you part of the "in" crowd.

Yes. It's marketing - the magic context in which we suspend our disbelief and let people lie to our faces, and we then applaud and pay them.

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by stouset on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @07:45PM (#10195375)
You confuse advertising and marketing.

Marketing is the process of figuring out who a product is for and how to get them to want to buy it (through channels like engineering, design, and yes, advertising). Apple being an excellent marketing company isn't a slur — it's an incredible complement. They absolutely excel at understanding who their target audience is, building devices that appeal to that audience, and advertising to ensure that audience is aware of how those devices address needs they may not have even known they had.

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by Spivak on Thursday September 10, 2015 @11:21AM (#10198592)
Eight, let's not try to twist words here. Apple is great at marketing but I don't think that was person's intended meaning. He means that Apple is good at manipulating people.

They make okay products (in absolute terms, not implying that anything is better) and would not have their completely rabid following did they not manipulate people into buying into their status, lifestyle, and that they're more valuable than their worth.

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by coldtea on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @08:18PM (#10195488)
Do we really "suspend our disbelief"? I don't think we're naive 50s tv viewers in this day and age.

If anything gets us is not us believing the ad, but just getting pumped with the nice visuals and subtle suggestions (so more subsconscius manipulation than convincing us).

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by TeMPOraL on Thursday September 10, 2015 @07:53AM (#10197490)
The question is, why do we allow it? If you took the behaviour that is standard-pracitce for marketers and journalists and tried that with a friend, you'd get punched in the face. Somehow we shielded a few areas of our lives (like advertising, journalism, politics) and decided that it's ok to be deceitful in those areas.
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by 72deluxe on Thursday September 10, 2015 @05:31AM (#10197002)
I used Lynx but preferred elinks or curl when in desperate need.
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by Fiahil on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @09:39PM (#10195731)
I prefer to think of this as mermaid marketing. It's nice to hear them sing, but don't fall for it or they will eat you.

Watching theses events is like this famous passage of the Odyssey. Once you are tightly attached, and don't risk to go overboard (and start buying stuff you don't really need), then enjoy the show. I've been told their exciting song is the most detailed and beautiful thing you've ever heard :)

Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by kbenson on Thursday September 10, 2015 @12:07PM (#10198840)
The considerate seafarer might consider warning others, rather than sitting back with popcorn. All these arguments really center around two points, will the mermaids eat you, and even if they will eat you, should we care that the singing tricks people or just accept it?
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by yangkaisun on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @07:24PM (#10195322)
Yeah, isn't Microsoft Surface Pro marketed precisely to be an enterprise-ready tablet?
Re:Apple Unveils the iPad Pro by IBM on Wednesday September 09, 2015 @05:55PM (#10194902)
I literally laughed out loud at this comment. HN is always predictable.