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Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by Andrenid on Thursday January 08, 2015 @04:09AM (#8855579)
> Google is using too much popularity-based machine learning to "correct" what you're searching for. It's become difficult on Google to search for a non-popular thing that happens to be close to a popular search target.

This has been getting me lots lately. It used to be 1 attempt, maybe 2, to find what I'm after.. lately I find myself regularly needing to try >4 different searches before getting what I'm after. I've consciously noticed that Google seems to have lost the whole thing that made them so great in the first place.

Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by mojuba on Thursday January 08, 2015 @05:54AM (#8855853)
When smart engineers try to guess what non-smart non-engineers would be looking for on the Internet, they end up with an over-algorithmized mess that Google has become lately.

And now, among other things, Google is losing power users. They shouldn't forget that they gained popularity in the beginning by word of mouth which in this industry literally means: by power users' recommendations to others. It's the power user who would (or wouldn't) be replacing Bing with Google on his family member's new laptop.

This is crucial in my opinion: don't try to guess what people want to find, just guess how they want to be looking for something - anything.

Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by hnnewguy on Thursday January 08, 2015 @08:52AM (#8856333)
>non-smart non-engineers >room temperature IQs

Boy, this bubble doesn't think too highly of the outside world, does it? What an attitude. We're not all idiots.

As someone who has run product before, I can tell you there's always some self-entitled blowhard who feels you owe them something for the time they spend on your product, or their "help". No one is upset when they finally leave (and they always do).

The fact that you have switched away from Google products (and are threatening to leave the last) means your value to Google is likely slightly above zero. But I'm sure the competition are beating down your door for your business.

Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by blueskin_ on Thursday January 08, 2015 @06:56AM (#8855996)
Unfortunately, that always happens. New product gains power users, starts to dumb down to appeal to room temperature IQs, loses power users again. See also: Firefox.
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by Fuxy on Thursday January 08, 2015 @10:59AM (#8856928)
As far as I'm aware as a long time Firefox user it has never lost any functionality.

The menus may appear a bit mor simplified at the surface but if you dig down you will find what you are looking for.

Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by sp332 on Thursday January 08, 2015 @10:42AM (#8856825)
What are you missing in Firefox that you can't get back 100% with add-ons?
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by Dylan16807 on Thursday January 08, 2015 @10:54AM (#8856905)
Well this is unrelated to 'dumbing down' but setting a minimum tab width below 30 pixels is remarkably painful these days. It used to be a single config setting, then a single rule in userchrome, but now it takes an add-on that removes Australis and a couple dozen lines of custom fragile CSS that took far too long to write.
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by amelius on Thursday January 08, 2015 @07:18AM (#8856051)
Yes, but how do we prevent this from happening? That's the big question!
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by mojuba on Thursday January 08, 2015 @07:23AM (#8856069)
Be in touch with your power users.
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by chii on Thursday January 08, 2015 @07:28AM (#8856086)
the problem is that the mainstream non-power users are where the money is at - power users are just the foot in the door, and when you get in, you don't care about them anymore.
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by mojuba on Thursday January 08, 2015 @07:56AM (#8856153)
Well then ignore your power users and lose the non-power ones along with the money they bring. That's exactly what Google has been doing in the past years. They lost me on almost everything except GMail which is also hanging from the cliff already.

Speaking of GMail, it's the same attitude basically. For example they added these automatic labels with some nonsensical heuristics, which don't work most of the time and are impossible to remove. One more "smart" improvement and I'm closing my GMail account for good, seriously.

Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by mdm_ on Thursday January 08, 2015 @09:42AM (#8856526)
I recently opened an Outlook account because I'm finding Google's business model creepy and so far it's been pretty nice. It integrates well with my BlackBerry Passport (switched from Android) and two-factor auth was pretty straightforward to set up. I've moved my entire calendar to outlook.com and I'm forwarding my GMail there for now and hopefully will migrate completely over the next year.

When I started to think about how Google was privy to just about all of my online and some of my real-life activity, it occurred to me they could build a disturbingly accurate profile on me, and while I'm just a boring 30-something middle-class white guy, I still found that creepy. Now I spread my data out between Google, BlackBerry, Outlook, and Yahoo and it's not really any less convenient than having it all integrated (the phone does integrate it all I suppose, but BlackBerry is not trying to use that data to show me ads).

Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by blueskin_ on Thursday January 08, 2015 @10:39AM (#8856812)
Outlook isn't much better. I ditched gmail ~2010 and switched to running my own mailserver. Also means I can DKIM sign my messages, I get unlimited aliases, full message headers, etc...
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by nostrademons on Thursday January 08, 2015 @04:28AM (#8855628)
Try verbatim mode, available under Search Tools -> All Results -> Verbatim or by adding &tbs=li:1 to the URL.
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by bhrgunatha on Thursday January 08, 2015 @05:21AM (#8855784)
Project Mycroft has hundreds of configuration files for browser search plugins, including Google verbatim.

http://mycroftproject.com/search-engines.html?name=google+ve...

Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by JeremyNT on Thursday January 08, 2015 @09:40AM (#8856512)
Astounding - this small feature dramatically improves my results with google.

This is the first time I've even heard of this mode. As with the original article, I think this speaks to the massive power of the "default". Once upon a time Google's "default" was excellent for my use case, but it's slowly degraded over the years, and rather than dig through all of its options trying to make Google useful again, I just whined about it and started looking at competing services.

Changes in default behavior should be embarked upon with extreme caution. This is especially true when considering the way google does this (with many incremental changes that are totally invisible individually). I feel like if they more prominently highlighted 1) what they were changing and 2) how to work around it they could avoid much backlash from "power" users.

Firefox, in contrast, makes it very clear what they're doing when they change the default search engine, and it's pretty easy to switch back to google. But clearly for a large number of users, that "default" will be good enough.

Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by blueskin_ on Thursday January 08, 2015 @05:00AM (#8855725)
Why am I only learning about this now? :(

It's like the mode to disable 'personalised results' (AKA filter bubbles) - I've explained it to several people in the last few months and they were all amazingly grateful. Of course, we still don't have any way to measure where there is no filter bubbling with them off, or just less... :(

Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by denzquix on Thursday January 08, 2015 @06:13AM (#8855893)
But if you'd like to search Verbatim and also restrict your results to the most recent month/year/etc., even though these are separate dropdowns under Search Tools, you're out of luck. Google seemingly just won't allow this.
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by asdrty on Thursday January 08, 2015 @01:57PM (#8858126)
It gets harder and harder to search for your search terms (the plus operator and quotes no longer work for exact matches for example)... now you have to be logged in, add text to the address bar or add a modified 1-click search engine to the Firefox toolbar...

They seem to be aiming for a TV-like experience by showing you whatever they want and not what you search for (maybe Google should be called an inspiration engine nowadays, for lack of a better word)

Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by walterbell on Thursday January 08, 2015 @01:37PM (#8857997)
Thanks for the pointer, here's a forum thread on using verbatim mode: https://productforums.google.com/forum/m/#!topic/websearch/Q...

To disable search result personalization: https://www.google.com/history/optout

Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by iLoch on Thursday January 08, 2015 @04:57AM (#8855722)
Perfect usability.
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by pavanky on Thursday January 08, 2015 @04:18AM (#8855597)
I don't see a reason to search twice if I already know a key word I am searching for.

If Google returns a "popular" result, I usually add a second keyword to specifying the domain which usually returns the correct result.

Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by weaksauce on Thursday January 08, 2015 @04:25AM (#8855615)
I have been using ddg for a good amount of time now and every day I have to use !g to search on Google because the results are too literal. I like the privacy stand that they are taking but it's not close to the search relevancy for a lot of queries.
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by blueskin_ on Thursday January 08, 2015 @05:01AM (#8855727)
Being literal is one of its best features, I think, at least in comparison to other search engines. I don't want a google-style filling my search in with long lists of antonyms, related words, or context-changing term reordering... Words that literally mean the same thing are fine (although ideally that would be a selectable setting), but substituting words for something only peripherally related is not.
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by collyw on Thursday January 08, 2015 @06:07AM (#8855881)
I try to use Duckduckgo, but end up resorting to google a lot, because the personalized searches are useful. I end up looking up Django documentation a lot, and if you try searching for "Django" on DDG, I end up with the film. Google knows I want the web framework.

Would there be a way to be personalized and anonymous at the same time? Or is that an oxymoron?

Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by mrweasel on Thursday January 08, 2015 @07:03AM (#8856015)
I use DuckDuckGo mostly, I always want a specific part of the Django documentation, say so I don't get the movie links (except for an ad).

As you say "django" gives you the movie, but "django class based views" gives you what you would expect.

For most search I feel that DuckDuckGo has become increasingly good, while Google has become worse. It might be because I don't login or flush cookies when I close my browser, but that would mean that Google rely on personalization to a disturbing degree.

Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by collyw on Thursday January 08, 2015 @07:33AM (#8856099)
Sure, but it was a kind of general example I was giving. My problem when I specify class based views, is that it usually takes me to version 1.3, while Google points me to the dev version (usually I want the most recent stable version so neither is perfect in that respect, but Google is usually closer).
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by icebraining on Thursday January 08, 2015 @06:47AM (#8855966)
Well, they could do client-side filtering/sorting, saving the personalization parameters in local storage. It'd require the server to send a bunch more results up front, though, otherwise the client would have little to work on.
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by dredmorbius on Thursday January 08, 2015 @05:40PM (#8859518)
ProTip: !sp will give you StartPage proxied Google results. Google search goodness without Google tracking.

My progression is DDG => !SP => !G

Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by amelius on Thursday January 08, 2015 @06:51AM (#8855978)
Try using a Google+ account. That way, Google can learn about you, and it doesn't need to resort to "popular" search results.
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by blueskin_ on Thursday January 08, 2015 @06:56AM (#8856000)
So the solution is to have your privacy invaded? Count me out.
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by hahainternet on Thursday January 08, 2015 @08:31AM (#8856251)
You want a company to omnisciently select from billions of webpages the most appropriate result for you.

You refuse to tell them anything about yourself.

That's not having your privacy invaded, that's wanting to have your cake and eat it too.

Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by blueskin_ on Thursday January 08, 2015 @10:38AM (#8856805)
No, I don't want omniscience. I want them to actually match the fricking keywords I give them. Is that too much to ask in these days of privacy invasion for profit?
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by WorldWideWayne on Thursday January 08, 2015 @11:30AM (#8857106)
Yeah, I don't want search results based on my personality just gimme the facts!
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by walterbell on Thursday January 08, 2015 @02:15PM (#8858254)
I want the most appropriate results for my search text, not me.

It's a human language question, not an FMRI.

Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by amelius on Thursday January 08, 2015 @07:15AM (#8856046)
You could use different user profiles to protect yourself from excessive privacy invasion.
Re:Google Loses Most US Search Share Since 2009 While Yahoo ... by blueskin_ on Thursday January 08, 2015 @08:15AM (#8856203)
Because it isn't like Google love to share data between services and cross reference user activity or something, is it? Oh, wait...