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Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by lee on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:20PM (#8391715)
Am I one of the minorities who believe that this hype about Ebola is more sensationalism and news than an actual pandemic we should be fearful for?

Let's take a lot at what we can agree on:

* The number of cases of infected patients is fairly small.

* The vector of transmission is fluid exchange, so that reduces its ability to spread.

* The virus doesn't appear to lie dormant, and is only contagious when the patient becomes symptomatic.

The chances of contracting the disease in a western country so far is near 0. The chances of contracting the disease in AFRICA is fairly improbable too.

It really sounds like sensationalism at its finest.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by djcapelis on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:48PM (#8391849)
> * The number of cases of infected patients is fairly small.

This is no longer true. We have no idea how many people are infected anymore because Liberia has too many patients to even keep track. They're literally thousands of beds short and it's actively doubling.

The CDC estimate is 100k-1.4m by the end of the year.

> * The vector of transmission is fluid exchange, so that reduces its ability to spread.

To some degree. It's still highly contagious, especially since it happens to cause people to tend to eject all kinds of different fluids. This is the largest spread of a BSL4 virus in history. It isn't casual.

> The chances of contracting the disease in AFRICA is fairly improbable too.

In places where it's not spreading, absolutely. In Monrovia or Freetown, there's actually a real risk and it's growing worse daily.

That's the scary part. This isn't even about what the risk is right now, though it's terrifying in comparison to where it was a month or two ago. It's about what happens two months from now.

The situation is bad now and rapidly deteriorating.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by enraged_camel on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:58PM (#8391895)
>>The CDC estimate is 100k-1.4m by the end of the year.

No no, you see, the world has seven billion people, so 100k-1.4m is still a tiny portion and therefore it's all sensationalism!

/s

The fact of the matter is that the current ebola outbreak is a disaster of epic proportions. Whether it becomes a pandemic is irrelevant: it's already devastating several countries in Africa and is likely to move to other underdeveloped nations if not kept in check. Can you imagine what would happen if it started spreading in India?

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by waps on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @04:12AM (#8393310)
It's easy to imagine scenarios that would have it spread in the US.

1) Scenario : some guy/girl lands in Florida, later that day goes for a swim in a big swimming pool with some 100+ people in it because it's a very hot day. Half of those people are on holiday and return to various places in the US before exhibiting symptoms.

2) Ebola is known for spreading fast in hospitals

3) Definitely diagnosing ebola takes several days

The problem with ebola (and all the MRSA variants, a number of which do spread through the air, and a few others) is that it can go from a few patients infected to turning hospitals into death traps in 2 weeks flat.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by interdrift on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @08:54AM (#8394023)
I don't think it's possible for the virus to survive in a pool because of the Fluoride.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by venomsnake on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @09:57AM (#8394297)
Chloride. The pool water is chlorinated.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by waps on Friday October 03, 2014 @05:47AM (#8404848)
I haven't yet seen a paper claiming either way. It spreads through fluids, so likely it can remain stable in chlorinated water for at least a few seconds.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by weego on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @06:01AM (#8393581)
I agree there could be a wide initial spread, but I really feel that it would be contained much more efficiently in, for example, the US or UK than is possible in the outbreak areas of Africa, so the outcome would be a lot less catastrophic.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by rimantas on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @04:08AM (#8393301)
Define "epic proportions", because it seems that your threshold for "epic" is way too low. 10x more people are killed on US roads each year.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by lutusp on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @04:58AM (#8393425)
The original claim would be hyperbolic, except that someone killed in a car crash doesn't increase the risk to other people on the road, but an Ebola infection certainly does. In the mathematics of exponential increase, a small initial amplification factor can produce very impressive results in a short time. Consider the hypothesis that just 1% of Ebola sufferers infect other people. Using this well-established mathematical method:

y' = y (1+p/100)^t

y = infected population % at time zero.

y' = infected population % at time t.

t = time in consistent units

p = percentage increase for one unit of time

So, if it takes a week for the infected population to increase by 1%, then:

http://i.imgur.com/TDPd7ug.png

IOW if after a week the infected population has increased by 1%, after a year (52 weeks) the infected population has increased by 67%. After 2 years (104 weeks) the infected population has increased to 281% of the original. And so forth.

This isn't true for car crashes, and the above is what is meant by an "exponential increase".

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by crpatino on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @10:22AM (#8394503)
If the ghosts of people who died in the road began to spook drivers and cause more accidents, you would see a rapid spike of mortality in the short term, followed maybe by change of behavior where ~90% of traffic is composed of professional bus/truck drivers that are hardened and not easily affected by ghosts.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by pdeuchler on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @08:26PM (#8392207)
> "The U.S. government and international organizations recently announced commitments to support these measures. As these measures are rapidly implemented and sustained, the higher projections presented in this report become very unlikely."

From the abstract of the report[0] you're citing. Essentially, it's rising exponentially (at smaller numbers) right now so of course if you extrapolate over long enough you're going to get a big scary number. The situation is bad, but we still haven't even engaged the outbreak with anything close to full force yet (a valid indictment on policy makers, not the situation). There's a difference between spreading caution and FUD, let's try and avoid the second.

[0] http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/su6303a1.htm?s_cid=... (cool read)

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by nl on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @08:30PM (#8392223)
This is true, but it is still reasonable to discuss current infection rates.

As you note, we still haven't even engaged the outbreak with anything close to full force yet. Until we see the effects of that engagement it makes complete sense to look at what is happening right now, not what countermeasures might or might not achieve.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by socceroos on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @09:54PM (#8392436)
I roll D20 to cast Nuke From Orbit.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by smoyer on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @09:28AM (#8394147)
This is quite an insensitive thing to say ... or maybe just an insensitive thing to say what everyone is wondering anyway.

We don't have a cure ... and won't have one in time to help (almost) anyone who's contaminated in this outbreak. There's really not much we can do except to contain the virus (if we can do that). I don't necessary want to be nuked from orbit, but if I were to contract this illness I'd also rather not linger towards an almost certain death.

I know it sounds a bit fatalistic, but why be an organ donor, draft a living will (etc) if you don't consider that one day you may perhaps die? And the truth is that most of us are unable to help the current situation in even the simplest way. Those of us who have a suitable belief system can only pray.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by a_c_s on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @10:18AM (#8394458)
The chance of death with proper treatment is roughly 40%: so while certainly terrifying, it is far from a certain death.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by socceroos on Sunday October 05, 2014 @07:07PM (#8413732)
It was only meant as a joke, not an actual suggestion. There are far more effective ways to contain Ebola than to introduce nuclear warfare.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by djcapelis on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @10:09PM (#8392472)
The US recently announced a commitment to building 1,700 beds over an undefined time period. (They got on the ground and started fairly quickly. They're totally moving fast, but it's still hard and it takes time.)

The WHO report as of Sept 24th estimates that Liberia alone is 1,550 short of what is needed for treating patients.

That was last week. What do you think it's going to look like in a month?

I think if you look at the numbers you'll see this massive scaling up the CDC is referencing isn't getting ahead of things, it's barely keeping up. The numbers are really quite bad and the CDC estimates shouldn't be taken lightly.

Basically the problem is with an epidemic that is growing exponentially, you have to scale your response exponentially just to keep your current rate of growth. To actually make it go down? You have to scale even faster.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by yardie on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @05:08AM (#8393451)
Those policy makers are people too. And just like you they think "it's not that bad".

And on top of that when the CDC (the experts in this shit) is trying to make projections, they are discounted as spreading FUD!

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by csbrooks on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @02:47PM (#8396783)
Don't epidemics generally spread exponentially? Is it normal for that growth rate to slow as the size of the epidemic increases? (Honest question, not being sarcastic.)
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by timr on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:32PM (#8391770)
Is the current media frenzy "sensationalism"? Yes.

Is there a risk here? Yes, a small one.

I understand, but am frustrated by, the number of people who keep repeating "it's not airborne", as if this is some kind of definitive argument that a virus cannot spread here.

Something like 80% of cold/flu infections happen via "bodily fluids" -- people snot on a surface, someone else touches the surface, then touch their face, etc. This is an effective means of virus transmission. A virus doesn't need to be airborne for a pandemic to occur.

That said, we have a number of advantages over rural Africa in dealing with illnesses -- we have high standards of sanitation, good electricity, clean water, and our population is generally not afraid of physicians (with notable exceptions in some minority communities). But our biggest advantage, by far, is that Ebola isn't endemic here. Our best and most effective screen is "have you been to Africa recently?"

If that screen loses its effectiveness, you start to have to worry about every patient presenting with a fever and diarrhea, and the epidemiology becomes quite difficult. We're not really prepared for everyone with a fever and vomiting showing up at the emergency room...and it won't take many patients (a few thousand, say) for things to get tense.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by marcelsalathe on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:46PM (#8391838)
Your 80% number is misleading. There is no good data on that. Flu has long been thought to be mainly transmitted through droplets, which fall to the ground quickly, rather than being dispensed in the air, being able to travel large distances (which would be truly airborne). If anything, the latest data suggest that we have actually underestimated the airborne route (relative to the droplet route).

Yes, a pandemic can occur even if the pathogen is not transmitted through there air - see HIV/AIDS.

Airborne and droplet spread make for fast spreading and hard to control epidemics. If something spreads through bodily fluids only, it's easier to do contact tracing and put the right measures in place. I think that's what people want to highlight if they say that Ebola is not airborne.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by privong on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:20PM (#8391990)
> Flu has long been thought to be mainly transmitted through droplets, which fall to the ground quickly, rather than being dispensed in the air, being able to travel large distances (which would be truly airborne).

Actually, there was a study earlier this year[0] which showed, with better data and more rigorous treatement of the fluid dynamics, dropplets can travel much farther than previously thought. [1] has a summary of the research, in case the article is not available. But their basic conclusion is that, depending on the size, droplets can travel up to 200 times farther than previously thought, because they are carried along with the "cloud" associated with the sneeze.

[0] http://journals.cambridge.org/action/displayAbstract?fromPag...

[1] http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/04/09/sneeze-cloud_n_5110...

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by timr on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:02PM (#8391918)
I'm basing that number on a paper I read a while ago that estimated the infection channels from a variety of experimental and epidemiological data. I can't find the original article with a quick search, but there are plenty of other papers that show how efficient the hand-contact mechanism is. For example:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/205151

In that study, 11 of 15 hand-contact exposures to a rhinovirus led to infection, which is not 80%, but it's within the margin of error. Notably, it was almost as good as large-particle aerosol exposure at spreading the virus.

But yes, the important point is that you don't need an airborne virus for a pandemic. Every virus is different, but there's this public fixation on "airborne" transmission that is a bit of a red herring. Ebola is doing just fine without it.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by NearAP on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:54PM (#8391875)
> Have you been to Africa recently..

Considering that there are still regular flights from African countries to the US, that would be a large number of people.

Maybe that screen should be applied only if you have developed a symptom like a high fever...?

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by tempestn on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:31PM (#8392035)
Parent is suggesting that would be an effective screen for people with other symptoms. Hence, "If that screen loses its effectiveness, you start to have to worry about every patient presenting with a fever and diarrhea..."

So at the moment, this "screen" is an easy way to rule out Ebola in a patient with potentially Ebola-like symptoms. Obviously we wouldn't expect everyone who has recently been to Africa has Ebola. I didn't downvote you, but I expect this is the reason why you're getting downvotes, not a misunderstanding about your question.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by NearAP on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:25PM (#8392013)
Edit here - Just realized my comment might have come across the wrong way. I was responding to the OP's suggestion of using the screen of 'Have you been to Africa recently?'. I wasn't actually asking if the OP had been to Africa recently
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by arrrg on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:32PM (#8391771)
The likelihood of any kind of pandemic is extremely low, sure. However, your dismissal of this epidemic and its impact is arrogant and disgusting.

It’s still a disaster in the affected countries, with many knock-on effects. Also, it would have been better to spend more money earlier to prevent unnecessary deaths.

This Ebola epidemic is actually something people hardly care about. Hardly anyone is donating, for example.

Help is needed. Actually. For real. And with better support and a better reaction this could have turned out better.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by SpaceManNabs on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @08:17PM (#8392172)
I am having a hard time understanding why people keep saying that donations are the way to go to solve this issue. From what I have seen, many rural communities are rejecting and acting against foreign assistance. I am not sure of the circumstances in urban settings, but I read that they are just as superstitious. How can we help those that do not want our help, especially when it is deadly to help either because of the disease or fear of attack?
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by Gustomaximus on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @09:15PM (#8392338)
This is a reason to donate. These rural areas clearly lack education, knowledge and need help. Just because they are scared/ignorant today doesn't mean they always have to be. For example if radios were distributed to all these communities education programs could start about ways to avoid disease transmission etc. This is going to be a long term strategy and wont happen in a day.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by arrrg on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @06:35PM (#8398241)
To be honest, I’m not sure how effective these targeted donations are at all. My point was more that in this case, while scary (and probably unrealistic) scenarios of the West somehow being affected were a popular pastime (and seemingly the main frame to view this disaster), hardly anyone seems to actually care about those who are affected by it. (I personally don’t think, for example, that I know better than a charity how to best allocate resources and I think targeted donations tied to a specific cause are quite irresponsible.)

Also, there may have been unique complications that make fighting the spread harder, though we don’t really know how widespread those are and were. They make for good stories, but are they the whole picture? I very much doubt that.

Additionally, it seems to me that even if those troubles were widespread it was possible to a) do something against them with more money (mostly in terms of improving communication about the virus) and b) make up for other deficiencies in resources (like a lack of space and beds and personal).

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by Shivetya on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:52PM (#8391869)
as far as donations are going, Time had a good breakout. There are many who have gone there, given money, and risked their lives. hint they aren't the type that frequent tech boards but posters here are quick to dismiss some of them for their religious convictions
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by joezydeco on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @08:44PM (#8392259)
NPR's Planet Money had a podcast that tried to understand the difficulties of fundraising for a situation like the Ebola outbreak:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/09/26/351515481/episode-...

The tl;dr is that people donate a lot more when they can tangibly understand that a disaster has happened and they make an emotional connection to the disaster (e.g. 9/11, Haitian Earthquake, etc).

When donors are asked to contribute money to prevent something, the emotional connection is a lot harder to make and funds are a lot harder to raise.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by lee on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:46PM (#8391837)
I don't know if you can call it a disaster. The total number of cases, as reported by the CDC, is less than 7000 so far.

I don't mean to be callous, but compare that number to the number of total deaths to Malaria or even the flu, and that number pales in comparison. I am not callous to say that we shouldn't care about the Ebola outbreak, but if you look at the numbers, directing that money to buy more mosquito nets or Malaria vaccines will likely save more lives.

Malaria kills close to a million people a year. If you're looking for a cause for donation, the most value per dollar could be directed there.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by scarmig on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:25PM (#8392005)
Malaria has a steady death rate. It's obviously a serious issue that doesn't get enough attention in the West, but immediate action will affect it only marginally.

The issue with Ebola isn't how many people it's killed so far (although the number is already tragic), but the number of deaths it can potentially cause. If left entirely unchecked at this point, it would kill over a million people in the next year. A half assed response limits it to hundreds of thousands, while a solid response limits it to tens of thousands (conceptually, numbers pulled out of ass but reasonable, I'd argue).

Outbreaks grow exponentially unless contained; the point of fast action is to prevent or curtail the exponential growth.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by crpatino on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:17PM (#8391981)
Last week, the total number of cases was ~6500. One month ago it was ~3000. Two months ago it was ~1300. How do you call a process that duplicates itself every fixed unit of time (in this case, every ~3 weeks)?

Of course, we should not fall into panic. Many factors will affect what ends up being the total effect of this outbreak in the mid to long term. But dismissing it as a non issue because "there are just a few thousand cases" misses the point completely.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by orbifold on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:50PM (#8392106)
Hm so that would mean assuming this rate of exponential growth that in ~150 days there would be ~ 1 million cases and roughly a year to reach 100 million. I wonder how well they can model travel patterns, then you could write down an ode for the disease on say a country level and couple them.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by crpatino on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @11:49PM (#8392718)
I am not saying that this will grow exponentially for ever. For what I know, disease expansion is modeled with a sigmoid curve: exponential at first, then slows down once a saturation level in the population is reached.

According to Wikipedia, the total population of the 3 most affected countries - Liberia, Guinea and Sierra Leone - is roughly 20 millions. So there is at least that upper bound.

The real risk of pandemia comes from the fact that as the number of cases grows, the more likely it is that some of those cases travel through a porous border into other countries which lack the infrastructure and professional discipline to contain new outbreaks. If/when that is the case, each new region will start its own sigmoidal worth.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by orbifold on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @08:02AM (#8393861)
Well the sigmoid curve you are referring to would be for the case that patients who have contracted the virus and survived would be immune or die. In an SIR model (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compartmental_models_in_epidemi...) that takes death rate and population number into account you would then expect a disease to either reach a disease free equilibrium or a endemic equilibrium. What I was suggesting is to couple those equations on the country level by modelling travel patterns (flow of Suscebtible Recovered Infected across borders), the result would most likely be that western countries would be able to reach a disease free equilibrium, as they have better recovery rates and lower infection rates, whereas ebola would remain endemic in africa.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by crpatino on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @12:16PM (#8395603)
Thanks, I was not aware of the SIR model.

Regarding your original question... if you can identify individual regions where the model can be applied, maybe you could use Markov chains to model the transitions between states in each region. I am not qualified enough to do that, but I imagine that the result would be a few endemic nodes where the disease is always present (with different degrees of intensity over time) and from where outbreaks get sporadically "exported" to disease free nodes.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by themgt on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @08:06PM (#8392154)
I will stop being concerned about Ebola as soon as I start seeing this log-scale graph start bending down hard: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Evolution_of_the_2014_Ebol...

And note the WHO already did bend the curve down once before, back when there were only a couple hundred cases, and then they lost control again. Not confidence-inspiring.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by hga on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @09:40PM (#8392397)
It's not that they lost control per se: when the hard detective work of determining the cause was done, it was already rather late in the game. The foreigners showed up in force but the locals refused to cooperate, hiding it until it couldn't be hidden, at which point it was too late for those three counties, and very possibly a very large part of West Africa or worse.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by arrrg on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:06PM (#8391937)
Donations are always tricky and effectively allocating resources to aid is hard … but can you at least recognise that similarly sized catastrophes get much more attention and money?

More than 3,000 people dead, potentially more, and many of the affected places don’t have enough resources to deal with it in a satisfactory manner. That’s the situation here. This could have been controlled better, probably.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by DanBC on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:11PM (#8391956)
Recently an arsonist alledgedly set fire to a dog shelter in the UK.

They raised over £1m in a few days.

> The blaze, which was tackled by more than 30 firefighters, killed about 60 animals.

> Within 24 hours, more than £1m pounds had been raised to help around 150 surviving dogs.

This happened while Ebola was happening.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by corin_ on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:44PM (#8392081)
Dogs are both cuter and easier for us English to relate to than Africans.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by __david__ on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @05:59AM (#8393579)
So what? Those are completely different situations. One is a human doing intentional harm to a bunch of innocent creatures. The other is mother nature vs. mankind. One tugs at the heartstrings, fills us with protective emotions for the poor doggies. The other is just another natural disaster. "Thank goodness it didn't happen to me", we think. I don't find this surprising or depressing.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by balfirevic on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @09:51AM (#8394264)
> I don't find this surprising or depressing.

What? It might not be surprising, but how is it not depressing?

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by __david__ on Thursday October 02, 2014 @07:00PM (#8403575)
I don't see it as depressing or heartening—it's just the way we humans tend to react to things. Why do you find it depressing?
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by frostmatthew on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:39PM (#8391808)
> Hardly anyone is donating, for example.

It might be beneficial to provide a link to where people could/should donate.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by smacktoward on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:53PM (#8391873)
Médecins Sans Frontières/Doctors Without Borders is the first organization that jumps to mind -- they've been helping to lead the response in Africa, more or less on a shoestring.

Their US donation page is here: https://donate.doctorswithoutborders.org/onetime.cfm

Folks in other countries can find their local donation pages here: http://www.msf.org/donate

EDIT - To give you a sense of how involved MSF has been in the Ebola response: "Since March 2014, 14 MSF staff members have become ill, among whom 8 have sadly passed away." (Source: http://www.msf.org/article/ebola-workers-risk-tragic-reality...)

There's a comprehensive rundown of their efforts to date to help contain Ebola across West Africa here: http://www.msf.org/article/ebola-crisis-update-sept-25th

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by Retric on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @09:17PM (#8392342)
Thanks for the info, just did a small donation. I suspect it's well beyond their ability to control at this point, but even slightly slowing down that exponential curve can be worth a lot.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by atiffany on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:39PM (#8391810)
Where is the most effective place to donate?
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by tripzilch on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @06:14AM (#8393606)
> Am I one of the minorities who believe that this hype about Ebola is more sensationalism and news than an actual pandemic we should be fearful for?

If you only care whether the disease is going to hit at home, or (even worse) only if it hits a "western country", then yeah.

Hundreds of thousands are dying, and it could hit millions.

I'm pretty certain it won't hit that bad "at home", maybe a few isolated cases, we have the infrastructure(s) to contain it adequately.

Not in Africa though. As you may recall, Africa is really really big (depending on map projection). May not literally count as a "pandemic", but this is a disaster of incredible proportions.

... and then there's people suggesting, only half-joking, to "nuke it from orbit". Would they suggest that if it was a "western country"?

It's fine to worry if you may get the disease yourself, personally. The answer is "no / highly improbable". But just because its wreaking havoc mainly in non-western countries, doesn't mean news about the terribleness and spread of this epidemic, that is going on right now (also it's not just some flu, it makes one bleed from their internal organs o_O), doesn't mean it's "hype" or "sensationalism". This is actual human drama and suffering at a massive scale. And it's probably going to get worse before it gets better.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by clarky07 on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @11:29AM (#8395219)
>Hundreds of thousands are dying, and it could hit millions.

3000 have died so far. 6500 have been infected. It certainly could grow much bigger, but it hasn't yet.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by hga on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @03:31PM (#8397095)
~3,000 are known to have died, officially.

There are roughly three reasons this outbreak became so big: different location (West vs. Central Africa), it took a while for the differential diagnosis (the much less deadly Lasa Fever is endemic in the area, but doesn't cause hiccups), and when the foreigners arrived in force, the locals hid. The WHO et. al. actually thought it was under control, before it couldn't be hid anymore.

Educated guesses would put actual fatalities in the 10s of thousands; 100s is possible, but I don't get the impression it's quite there yet. But with exponential growth, 1 case infecting an average of 3 others by one estimate, there's no way it isn't going to get that bad in West Africa.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by hga on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @06:12PM (#8398124)
And now I see that under the incompetent, sacked Minister in charge in Sierra Leone deaths were systematically uncounted: http://promedmail.org/direct.php?id=20140930.2817719

tl;dr: Blood samples were taken in villages, laboratory confirmed, but none of these deaths were counted unless the patient actually made it to a treatment center. Much needs revision, which is not a priority right now.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by tripzilch on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @04:21PM (#8397453)
Sorry, my mistake. I confused the predictions with the current numbers.

Doesn't take away from my main point, really, but apologies for the untrue and unnecessary hyperbole :)

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by TheCondor on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @09:55AM (#8394289)
It is sensational.

The truth is also that we know fairly little about Ebola. It's fairly recent that we've known any animal vectors for it. It is very effective at killing but until now it has been very isolated. We know it requires fluid exchange but that's a somewhat vague concept to many, is a sneeze in an office a fluid exchange? I mean, that's good enough for flu... I'm not sure that it's known how bats (a vector) exchange or transmit it. Just a lot of unknowns, the idea that the North American bat population could start carrying it is a little scary.

We will stop it but it got a lot closer to home and if a dozen other contract it from this case, I'd say the sensationalism and paranoia are warranted.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by robomartin on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @08:52PM (#8392279)
No, no, it has to be taken very seriously before it spreads. This is the kind of thing that could completely upend the entire planet if not taken seriously. What would happen if the entire world had to self quarantine for three to four weeks and all transportation grounded for the same period of time. No, this is a huge deal.

I have long believed that some kind of bacteria or virus is going to take out all or a huge chunk of humanity at one point or another. Evolution is a heartless SOB. We could very well be one or two random mutations away from losing half the planet's human population. And, BTW, the mutations in question don't have to attack us. Imagine losing half the worldwide crops, cattle or fish.

Don't get me wrong, I don't lose any sleep over this and don't have a garage full of gas masks and HAZMAT materials. When/if it happens that stuff is likely to be absolutely useless.

I wonder if that's what might finally make the religious "get it". You go ahead and pray to your powerless imaginary intelligent creator. I'll choose science thank you.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by ctdonath on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @10:46PM (#8392556)
Insult unnecessary. At this point, prayer & science have similar influence over curing someone of Ebola. Contradictory to say you'll "choose science thank you" yet don't have (per hyperbolic statement) any sensible tangible preparations to meet an Ebola epidemic with.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by robomartin on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @01:54AM (#8393040)
Calling nonsense "nonsense" is not an insult unless you believe in said nonsense. No religious person would find the statement "belief in Thor is nonsense" objectionable or offensive at all. In fact, most would agree without reservations.

You also missed my point about taking a scientific approach to something like ebola. Gas masks are utterly irrelevant and pointeless. We know how the virus is spread and we know that if caught reasonably early it is easy to kill. Even if your entire neighborhood consists of people with ebola you and your children are safe as long as you don't swap bodily fluids. I don't know about you, I can't remember the last time I swapped bodily fluids with my neighbors. So, yeah, others can pray --which is utter nonsense-- I'll stick with scientific knowlege --which is not.

Here's the difference with science: If tomorrow someone offered true evidence that ebola is now airborne and prayer kills it, I could not imagine a single scientist who, when presented with the evidence, would not accept these findings to have a high degree of probability of being true.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by robomartin on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @02:02AM (#8393063)
> At this point, prayer & science have similar influence over curing someone of Ebola.

This is so ridiculous I had to separate it just to say:

ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING! SURELY YOU MUST BE BECAUSE NO INTELLIGENT EDUCATED PERSON COULD POSSIBLY HOLD THIS RIDICULOUS BELIEF.

The fact that we have people on this planet in 2014 who can actually believe something like this is the root of many of our problems.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by ctdonath on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @09:32AM (#8394170)
Current treatment for Ebola is little more than hydration and quarantine, hence my comment. When ZMapp et al are shown effective, I'll change my comment.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by robomartin on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @01:07PM (#8396023)
And you are still missing the point.

You are equating praying to medical treatement. That is utter nonsense on the face of it, regardless of whether or not an established and effective treatement course exists for an ailment. I'm sorry, it's just plain stupid. Would you pray to Thor, Apollo, the Tooth Fairy, Zeus? Why not? So, pray tell, why does your brain magically stop working when your favorite god is invoked?

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by crimsonalucard on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:35PM (#8391790)
I think this is one of the few cases where parts of the sensationalism is legitimate.

I think the media has desensitized many people to the point where they can't recognize a significant and potential danger.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by mrgriscom on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:30PM (#8392032)
It's almost as if people don't understand the concept of exponential growth...
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by phacops on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:33PM (#8392044)
you’d think HN would understand ‘going viral'
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by bripeace on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @01:06PM (#8396016)
People understand exponential growth, but the US is not conducive to spread of Ebola. The problems found in Africa that prevent effective management of the situation do not exist here: Lack of hospitals, suspicion of outsiders/doctors, general hygiene, etc.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by hga on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @03:33PM (#8397109)
And different burial practices, including I gather different from Central Africa, generally speaking.

The CDC just issued instructions for U.S. funeral homes.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by URSpider94 on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:31PM (#8392037)
Despite what you write above, and the attention being paid to ebola, the infection is growing, not shrinking (each ebola patient infects, on average, more than one other person). Reasonable (not breathless) forecasts show the number of infected individuals growing to over 100,000 within a few months, and the CDC could see it growing to over a million cases by early 2015.

Further, this is a disease with a 50% mortality rate, and no verified treatment other than palliative care (even ZMAPP, the supposed magic bullet, did not save at least two patients who were treated).

I think we have good reason to be concerned.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by tjohns on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @08:42PM (#8392253)
The CFR (case fatality rate) in this outbreak is actually closer to 71% once adjusted for time between case onset and resolution.

It only looks like 50% at first glance because people are catching the disease so quickly that the number of deaths hasn't had time to catch up.

Source: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa1411100

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by phkahler on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:05PM (#8391933)
Most interesting is that this guy apparently became symptomatic 3-4 days before going to the hospital. Arrived on the 20th, felt sick on the 24th, went to hospital on 27th, was isolated on the 28th. How many people did he come in contact with? How many contacts are being traced? This may be very interesting, and I doubt it will stop at just the one case.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by maxerickson on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:36PM (#8392054)
There is a good chance it will stop with his contacts though, as anybody he infected will likely be isolated before they become infectious.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by rasz_pl on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @08:35PM (#8392237)
except for that one monkey that bit him and then ran into the woods.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by crpatino on Thursday October 02, 2014 @01:39PM (#8401943)
This is not completely accurate. The guy went to the hospital on the 26th, was misdiagnosed and sent home on antibiotics. Then he was taken to a different hospital by ambulance 2 days later when he obviously got worse instead of better.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by robflynn on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @08:34AM (#8393954)
I found that interesting as well. If I had just returned from an area where Ebola is currently spreading and started to feel ill, my first thought would be to head immediately to the hospital as a precaution.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by smtddr on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @09:42PM (#8392402)
I can tell you that as someone with 90%+ relatives living in Lagos, Nigeria... they don't seem too concerned. But it is a real problem. Not the END OF THE HUMAN RACE ANDROMEDA STRAIN[1] like the western/UK media has been making it sound like, but a problem nonetheless. I also have a feeling if it even approached anything resembling a problem in a first world country, a cure/vaccine would magically be found and made promptly accessible to all......

1. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0424600/combined

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by yardie on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @05:06AM (#8393443)
Listen to this podcast[1] and get back to us. Compared to previous disasters this is a very slow moving disease, extremely contagious, and almost always fatal. And that is part of the problem. No one thinks it's a problem because it's all the way over there.

The CDC and other NGOs are trying to hype up its effects because people, and you are not in the minority, don't think it's a real problem. I know people who think it's corrupt African countries trying to get more aid money.

* 1 gets you 2, 2 gets you 4, 4 gets you 8, and 10 gets you 100. Exponential growth here. See, math is fun.

* How many times have you touched your face today? What else have you touched while outside. Victims don't have to physically bleed all over you. But imagine if just 1 infected person took the NY Subway.

* They become symptomatic and then what? Most people, when starting to feel sick, go to the supermarket and stock up on juice and vitamins. Possibly passing it along to coworkers, friends, and family. Only when they have overwhelming evidence that something is wrong do they head to the hospital. Meanwhile, the entire time, the virus is shedding.

[1] http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/09/26/351515481/episode-...

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by brownbat on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @09:50PM (#8392422)
I think there's some exaggeration of ebola when you consider the lack of splashy headlines about heart disease, which by the numbers, is arguably far more important.

That said, if there are rare issues where sensationalism might be justified, this might be one. This is one of those areas where preventative aid funding is incredibly hard to muster, even though money spent in containing the outbreak now could have an oversized impact.

More at Radiolab on this: http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2014/09/26/351515481/episode-...

Famines are similar, apparently aid workers all know they're coming, but just no one cares enough to donate until it's far too late to prevent.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by jonknee on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:30PM (#8391766)
Far from the only one, but it's obvious why it is captivating. It has a high fatality rate (>50%) and is quick not to mention graphic. Oh and there's not a cure (though that may be changing!).
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by rdl on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:33PM (#8391786)
I'm +inf more concerned about XDR TB and other airborne diseases.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by sillysaurus3 on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @04:46AM (#8393397)
Scientists on Reddit seem to agree with you: https://www.reddit.com/r/science/comments/2hy3r9/science_ama...
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by guscost on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:40PM (#8391817)
One thing the news stories never mention is that the death toll from malaria every day is comparable to the total deaths in this recent Ebola outbreak:

http://www.malariaworld.org/lastweek

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by jleader on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:28PM (#8392023)
You're comparing a fairly stable, relatively well understood danger with a rapidly growing, less well understood danger.

Elsewhere in this discussion, someone quotes a CDC estimate that by the end of the year the number of ebola cases could reach 100k to 1.4 million. Taking the lower end of the range, that's 100k new cases in 3 months, so the number of cases grows by a factor greater than 10 in 3 months.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by bsder on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:19PM (#8391987)
Oy, look up the word "contagious", please.

This has the potential to make malaria look like a walk in the park.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by cmdrfred on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @08:47PM (#8392265)
In 2012, malaria caused an estimated 207 million clinical episodes, and 627,000 deaths.

Source: CDC.gov

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by ekianjo on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @09:50PM (#8392421)
> This has the potential to make malaria look like a walk in the park.

Based on what, really ? It may be exponential in some area but not in another with different climate conditions and genetic pool. We have NO IDEA at this stage.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by guscost on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:24PM (#8392004)
And a random asteroid has the potential to totally like explode the planet and kill everyone. The difference is that I'm talking about present reality.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by wtallis on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @11:04PM (#8392617)
Since the Ebola outbreak is still growing exponentially, this also means that the death toll of the next three weeks alone will match the daily death toll of malaria, and if it continues to grow exponentially, Ebola will be killing more per day than malaria by around the end of the year.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by 001sky on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:48PM (#8391853)
This is missing the point. Ebola is a far more dangerous pathogen. I dont think this needs further explanation.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by guscost on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:51PM (#8391865)
The death toll from malaria throughout history is orders and orders of magnitude beyond that of Ebola. I don't see how there is any way you can accurately describe it as "a far more dangerous pathogen."
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by pmontra on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @04:01AM (#8393288)
Malaria kills more people than ebola (up to now) but cars kill twice as much as malaria does (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_traffic-re...). You could blame me for comparing deaths by cars with deaths by pathogens but let me explain.

Malaria and ebola can't be compared, malaria and cars can. Malaria and ebola are transmitted in very different way. You get malaria if you live in areas where some species of mosquitos carry the malaria plasmodium. This means that it doesn't get you if you don't enter one of those areas. You can't get malaria in NYC. You can be hit by a car there because cars are definitely endemic in NYC as they are in most of the world.

I'm worried by malaria. I don't like the side effects of it prophylaxis and I don't want to risk getting sick (the prophylaxis are not completely effective) so I don't travel in areas where it's endemic. I sincerely hope we can make a vaccine against it.

I'm also worried by cars as anybody else and I take the usual measures (watch left and right before crossing a street, drive carefully) but there are few places to hide, right?

I'm much more worried by ebola because if it gets big enough there will be little we can do to stop it: it's going to overcome quarantines and get to us in our cities across the oceans and it kills with 50% efficiency. If we want to think about something that could send the human population back to 3 billion in a few years we shouldn't look at malaria or cars, but at ebola. That's why also to me this is "a far more dangerous pathogen." Let's concentrate on ebola now, we'll get back to malaria when we'll have fixed it.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by privong on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:22PM (#8391998)
You are taking "dangerous" to mean "total number of people killed", while an equally reasonable definition is "likelikhood of dying if you contract it". It all depends on what criteria is being used to define "dangerous".
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by guscost on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:57PM (#8392133)
Absolutely. I'm using the word in the sense of a "public health hazard" rather than the "likelihood of not having a good time once you personally are infected" but there is a valid case for not wanting to contract either disease.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by zo1 on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:00PM (#8391907)
I think people find ebola more frightening. Even if it's caused a tiny amount of deaths compared to other, less frightening diseases.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by 001sky on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:20PM (#8391991)
This is true, but Its a Biosafety level 4 pathogen.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biosafety_level

So its "literally more dangerous".

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by cmdrfred on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @08:53PM (#8392281)
That is because no approved treatment is available for ebola if zmap is effective it will be level 2 like malaria soon enough.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by 001sky on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @11:21PM (#8392655)
The Hemoraggic fevers are not likely ever to be considered similar to Malaria in objective risk. More likely to remain in the same league as Smallpox, which is still class 4.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by arrrg on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:12PM (#8391960)
And? I’m not sure what the point is. The effect on the affected countries is still disastrous. Do you think having to fight Ebola on top of Malaria is harmless?

Do you think it is worth considering whether a better response was and maybe still is possible to end this quickly (and be better prepared in the future)?

Malaria is a huge disaster. The Ebola epidemic is, too, in the affected countries. (I couldn’t care less about scared idiots in Europe and the US.) Both are.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by guscost on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:36PM (#8392051)
Sure, the Ebola epidemic is still a disaster for public health in the affected places. Nobody is arguing otherwise.

But it's a bit strange to see all this American media FUD after years and years of not a word about all the destruction caused by malaria (apart from that Bill Gates project), no?

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by joshdance on Wednesday October 01, 2014 @10:42AM (#8394727)
Have you even been to Africa? I lived in Western Africa for 2 years. It is a big deal, and very bad. It is less bad for the US, but that is due to supplies, medical system, education, and other infrastructure improvements.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by dombili on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:57PM (#8391889)
Yes, exactly. I recommend this episode (https://overcast.fm/podcasts/episode/110040344176) of Stuff To Blow Your Mind if you want to learn what Ebola really is. It was very informative and easy to understand for someone like me who doesn't know anything about diseases/viruses.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by induscreep on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @07:03PM (#8391919)
Also, there were patients with Lhasa fever and Marburg in the USA before - and nothing happened. Ebola is hyped up because there's an outbreak in Africa.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by look_lookatme on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @09:22PM (#8392357)
So far the chances of contracting the disease in a western country was near zero. It's no longer near zero if you define near zero as virtually impossible due to lack of extent cases.

That's why this news is significant.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by razster on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @06:47PM (#8391843)
Fear, you're not fearing this enough... Maybe we should ramp it up and make it airborne. Fear will come.
Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by coldtea on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @08:27PM (#8392209)
>Am I one of the minorities who believe that this hype about Ebola is more sensationalism and news than an actual pandemic we should be fearful for?

Well, besides media sensenationalism, the idea is that we should be fearful of a possible pandemic BEFORE it becomes a pandemic, and that that's how we take the measures and care we need to contain it. (Being fearful of something like that AFTER it becomes a pandemic goes without saying).

That said, in Nigeria there were abour 3,000 deaths and 6,000 cases. I wouldn't call that "fairly small". Plus stuff like that have a way of skyrocketing if they pass a certain threshold.

In Nigeria at least, they had very good reasons to be fearful, and with modern travel, a few stray travellers could have wiped out similar numbers in other places, or even more.

Re:CDC confirms first Ebola case diagnosed in US by hga on Tuesday September 30, 2014 @09:54PM (#8392435)
Nigeria has so far been very lucky: a single index case who was already quite sick when he got on the plane to the country. 20 cases (19 lab confirmed), 8 dead, no new cases since the 5th (http://www.cdc.gov/vhf/ebola/outbreaks/2014-west-africa/inde...). They need another 17 days to be sure, if memory serves, but it's looking good. For this index case....