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Re:Jolla by Brakenshire on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @12:13PM (#6809444)
For the people who are genuinely confused, Jolla is a company that sells smartphones, their first smartphone is also called Jolla; it runs Sailfish OS, which is effectively a fork of the Meego operating system which Nokia used in its N9/N900 phones, before they switched to Windows Mobile. This is not very surprising, because Jolla is a Finnish company principally made up of ex-Nokia engineers, including a lot of the people who created the N9 in the first place. Sailfish OS stays closer to Linux than Android, using Wayland, Qt/QML, PulseAudio etc, and adhering to the Linux Standard Base specification. It also comes packaged with an Android runtime based on Alien Dalvik, so that it can run Android applications (similar to Blackberry 10), although it won't have access to Google Play or the Play Services APIs. The phone is being launched this week in Finland, and there are plans for release in the rest of Europe, and in China, though not so far in the US.

Edit: Some more technical details about the OS: https://sailfishos.org/about-technology.html

Re:Jolla by geuis on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @12:52PM (#6809788)
Please forward this paragraph to their web folks. Just put it right at the top as a first-read. Then everything else makes a lot more sense.
Re:Jolla by tedks on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @07:45PM (#6812350)
The first paragraph on a sales page should never include the word "pulseaudio." It probably shouldn't even include "Linux" unless you're selling server hardware.
Re:Jolla by stevewilhelm on Thursday November 28, 2013 @03:01PM (#6816152)
For that matter, it shouldn't include fork (unless you are talking about the eating utensil), Meego (WTH is that?), Dalvik, etc.
Re:Jolla by jpatokal on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @06:10PM (#6811856)
To us geeks, yes, but that's still not giving anybody else a single reason to buy the thing.
Re:Jolla by daliusd on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @01:46PM (#6810167)
I'm pretty sure they can't use "Nokia" in their advertisements.
Re:Jolla by gojomo on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @04:28PM (#6811262)
Yes, but there's one interesting bit of fine print in the Nokia-Microsoft deal that gives the runt company (that was the old Nokia) the right to start using the Nokia name again... as of January 1, 2016:

http://followingjolla.blogspot.com/2013/09/the-small-print-t...

Of course Jolla is a different company as well... but we're barely 2 years away from more wild naming-strategery options, for Nokia-offshoot Finnish companies.

Re:Jolla by zobzu on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @01:51PM (#6810209)
I'm pretty sure they can say jolla is the phone, sailfish the os, and that it comes from meego tho. and everything else without mentioning even Nokia. heh.
Re:Jolla by daliusd on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @02:35PM (#6810526)
I just did experiment and asked my wife what OS is running on her phone. She has no idea. She owns N9.
Re:Jolla by vidarh on Thursday November 28, 2013 @12:56AM (#6813244)
I'm a software developer with 20 years of professional experience, 18 of them on Linux, and 33 years of time spend immersed in technology every day, and I didn't know the N9 ran Meego until I read the paragraph above. I was somewhat aware of Jolla and Sailfish, and vaguely aware it had Linux somewhere there, but only barely.

They probably should not mention the OS very much, and focus on getting people to recognize the brand and reasons why they should want the phones, and only mention "Linux" and "Meego" far down the list.

Re:Jolla by shmerl on Thursday November 28, 2013 @04:48AM (#6813839)
Stock N9 doesn't even run Meego (proper). It runs Harmattan, a transitional system which is more Maemo than Meego underneath. Nokia planned to evolve it into Meego proper, but never did since it soon sunk into the oblivion of WP. Some parts of Meego (not Harmattan) were forked by the community as Mer, and some other parts (namely Meego Handset) as Nemo. Sailfish is built on Mer and parts of Nemo, adding its own UI on top. All this (including historic evolution of Moblin and Maemo to Meego) can be pretty confusing for those who didn't follow these developments. See also this chart: https://github.com/kumadasu/tizen-history
Re:Jolla by erikig on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @03:21PM (#6810847)
I think the idea of the site was to get the name jolla out there and to get consumers asking: what is a jolla?

I believe from the questions above they've succeeded. If they just said, hey there's another phone called jolla I doubt I'd have taken a look.

Re:Jolla by vanderZwan on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @07:02PM (#6812164)
Could they parody action movie trailers and say something like "From the engineers who brought you the legendary Nokia N900..."?
Re:Jolla by pekk on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @07:35PM (#6812304)
How does that help the 'normal people are confused' argument?
Re:Jolla by silverbax88 on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @12:29PM (#6809575)
Thanks for this, I too am curious as to why this isn't in the sale copy on the page. I actually thought it was a dev framework of some kind.
Re:Jolla by skue on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @06:30PM (#6811964)
You mentioned it won't have access to Google Play or Play Services APIs. That will be a serious challenge, and they are bound to end up with a lot of frustrated customers.

I don't see how they can advertise that it runs "top Android apps" & "latest Android apps" without supporting the Play Services APIs.

Re:Jolla by fulafel on Thursday November 28, 2013 @08:35AM (#6814412)
Not having to join your phone to Google Skynet is a major plus for many people.

Also, many Android devices are in the same boat (pun intended!) as the vendors haven't licensed the proprietary bits from Google.

Re:Jolla by Brakenshire on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @08:51PM (#6812565)
Yeah, it'll be interesting. This really is also the key question as to whether non-Google Android distributions are actually viable. Essentially whether controlled Play Services means you control Android. Although, bear in mind that they are running their own App Store, so they should be able to filter for reliance on those APIs, which would at least mean you wouldn't have software crashing (just people somewhat mystified as to why certain Apps aren't available).
Re:Jolla by kapranoff on Thursday November 28, 2013 @01:34PM (#6815814)
Jolla uses Yandex.Store instead of Google Play. See http://techcrunch.com/2013/11/13/jolla-yandex/
Re:Jolla by msvan on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @12:27PM (#6809555)
How refreshing it is with a tech product that doesn't launch in the US first! I'm quite happy that there are more non-US non-China competitors popping up in the mobile market.
Re:Jolla by Brakenshire on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @12:50PM (#6809768)
I think that might partly explain the advertising, they seem to be modelling themselves on that Central/Northern European, Berlin counter-culture, Girl-with-a-Dragon-Tattoo, techy-savvy hacker kind of thing. Problem is, at least from the other side of Europe, that seems like it would represent a fairly tiny demographic, and I'm not sure deliberately avoiding the mainstream, and going for semi-obscurity, is all that great a marketing idea!

But, in any case, regardless of the marketing, the phone does seem promising. Seems to be the most credible of the open source challengers to Android/iOS, much more so than Ubuntu Touch, for instance, because of the direct experience of the staff and the fact that a phone is actually being sold. Also, personally speaking, it's nice to see an open source OS made by a company apparently looking to make money from selling hardware and software, as a product, rather than from leveraging user data.

Re:Jolla by kayoone on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @04:18PM (#6811205)
> I think that might partly explain the advertising, they seem to be modelling themselves on that Central/Northern European, Berlin counter-culture, Girl-with-a-Dragon-Tattoo, techy-savvy hacker kind of thing.

woo, lots of stereotypes here..i found the video to be really likeable.

> Also, personally speaking, it's nice to see an open source OS made by a company apparently looking to make money from selling hardware and software, as a product, rather than from leveraging user data.

That works as long as arent very successful and others start to use Sailfish

Re:Jolla by alandarev on Thursday November 28, 2013 @03:58AM (#6813693)
Being a tech-savvy european here, I just like everyone here, was totally confused by their landing page.

Thus, I highly doubt they targetted anyone there.

Re:Jolla by Dewie on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @05:19PM (#6811559)
> I think that might partly explain the advertising, they seem to be modelling themselves on that Central/Northern European, Berlin counter-culture, Girl-with-a-Dragon-Tattoo, techy-savvy hacker kind of thing.

What the heck is that?

Re:Jolla by shmerl on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @03:38PM (#6810974)
Re:Jolla by hvass on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @01:56PM (#6810247)
Thank you so much, I couldn't figure out what they were offering exactly. ;-)
Re:Jolla by panzi on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @01:41PM (#6810127)
Did they make the switch to Qt 5 before the release or will the first version ship with Qt 4?
Re:Jolla by shmerl on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @02:55PM (#6810654)
They switched to Qt 5 when they had to switch from using ST-Ericsson to Qualcomm and found out that there is no way they can get X.org drivers from them. So they started using libhybris with Android drivers and Wayland on top, and that by default implied Qt 5.
Re:Jolla by Brakenshire on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @02:08PM (#6810348)
Just found this page: https://sailfishos.org/about-technology.html

They use Qt 5.

Re:Jolla by wmf on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @04:48PM (#6811377)
The real question is when are they going to announce a total rewrite of the OS that will obsolete the shipping version. Usually they announce that right about the time the phone ships.
Re:Jolla by voltagex_ on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @04:56PM (#6811419)
By that reasoning, Android 4.4 obsoleted 4.3.
Re:Jolla by wmf on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @05:44PM (#6811685)
I'm not going to explain the joke, but Android is backwards compatible.
Re:Jolla by memsom on Friday November 29, 2013 @12:05PM (#6820129)
the joke is that this is what Nokia did almost every time they released a NIT OS (ie maemo) version.
Re:Jolla by salient on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @01:33PM (#6810076)
Didn't N900 run Maemo? Also, I'm not even sure N9 ran Meego. If it did, then it was Meego + Nokia's own UI.
Re:Jolla by Brakenshire on Wednesday November 27, 2013 @01:46PM (#6810162)
As I understand, N900 ran Maemo, which was then merged into Meego, which ran on the N9, in combination with Nokia's proprietary UI, called Harmattan. Just tried to glaze over some of the gory details for the sake of brevity. Also, Jolla seem to have built their new UI along similar lines to Harmattan (button-less, reliance on slide-from-edges etc).
Re:Jolla by sbierwagen on Thursday November 28, 2013 @01:56AM (#6813389)

  or the Play Services APIs
Huh. So I can't use any of the Google apps, like gmail?
Re:Jolla by josteink on Thursday November 28, 2013 @03:29AM (#6813613)
No, because Google will only license those libraries and frameworks to "pure" Android devices as certified by Google.

And Google will not certify sailfish OS as Android.

Re:Jolla by muyuu on Thursday November 28, 2013 @06:01AM (#6814026)
Wow.

Suddenly I'm interested.