https://www.google.com/patents/US8241126
Video game controller having user swappable control components
Original Assignee: Valve Corporation
Abstract:
A game controller is provided. One or more main control input interfaces on the game controller consist of generalized sockets. A variety of modular input interfaces can be plugged into these sockets. Hardware specific to the input type of the modular input is contained within the modular input itself, and plugged in via an interface. This allows for dual analog sticks, a combination of analog and trackball, or further any combination of touchpad, directional pad, or additional components.
Thank you... same here!
I'm just very interested in the game industry (and a lot of other fields). I tend to R&R (Read and Research) a lot!
--
Edit: Valve Corporation patents, for those interested:
https://www.google.com/search?tbm=pts&hl=en&q=%22Valve+Corpo...
Like, "RTCHN - Responding To Comments on HN"
From 2012: http://kotaku.com/5890372/is-this-valves-control-pad-design/
This stuff happens all the time. Why is R this way? CEO of R Inc. comes up to tell you. Why is S not in space? It just so happen that a engineer from the space program is reading the comment and answers with a detailed insightful post.
When that happens, HN is awesome.
Player biofeedback for dynamically controlling a video game state: https://www.google.com/patents/US20110009193 - Responsive play
Dynamically providing guest passes for a video game: https://www.google.com/patents/US20080234043 - Steam Sharing?
Imagine selecting your weapons physically as well as in-game before going on a raid with some gamepad-plugins offering better control over in-game weapons or accessories than others.
It works pretty well, for what it's worth.
Even my steering wheel, while not practical to use with that application, is recognized.
Even though it's coming to the living room, I still don't feel that the first iterations of the Steam box are really targeted towards non-core gamers. Not even traditional video game consoles are a good fit for them beyond the original Wii, so I doubt even future versions of Steam machines will truly target non-core gamers. The products from Apple, Google, and Amazon are a better fit for that demographic, especially if any of them ever truly figure out TV... and ship. Unless Steam comes out with a cheap TV box, the non-core gamer isn't their target.
However, most people probably wouldn't want to jump through those kind of hoops (downloading a third party app + mapping the keys to the right keyboard keys) so I'd love if Steam had some sort of unified controller support, but I also feel like that's asking for a lot.
I have an older Logitech DualAction and a newer one, the older one will fail those checks but the newer will register itself as an Xbox controller. It seems like Microsoft, somewhere, standardized what it means to be a "controller" finally instead of having an arbitrary button0 through button10 that are always different and constantly requiring remapping.
A good change, but really frustrating for anyone with older hardware.
PS3 controllers are a pity though, you need those shady ad-ridden closed source third party drivers.
"Wait, you mean I have to buy an XBox 360 controller to use my Steam Machine?"
Well, no, but it's better that way.
"What do you mean, isn't there a Steam Controller."
Not exactly, you see any Steam Machine is compatible with any number of controllers.
"So why can't I buy this other controller I saw at Best Buy?"
You can, but I can't guarantee you it'll work very well. I only use my 360 wired controller with it.
"Oh, ok. Well maybe I'll just get an XBox, then."
That's the kind of thing the Steam Alliance (or whatever they'll call it) will have to overcome.
"Nah, its compatible with a lot of controllers. In my experience the Xbox 360 one works pretty well so I'd just go with that. You can check the other ones out if you want, too."
"Ok, cool."
I like the idea of a touch pad for configurable interface elements. That's what I first thought of when the Valve modularity patent was mentioned. Has anyone played a game on Ouya that made good use of that touchpad?
Or am I mistaking and it's not both a touch screen and touch pad, just more of a trackpad-like input device?
Why wouldn't Valve include a controller with their Steam Machines?
Your argument makes no sense.
The same thing happens when you recommend Linux to the average user, get a Microsoft Keyboard and Mouse to use with Linux. Well why aren't there Linux mice and keyboards? Can't I run Windows apps on Linux? No, well sort of, you have to install WINE and then if it is on the compatibility list, er ah look Linux has their own apps most are free and do the same thing as Windows apps but have a different user interface. Steam works on Linux, but only has 100+ Linux games, but if you run the Steam Windows Client under WINE some of not most of the games might work if you add in some exceptions to the built in libraries, etc. Then they just buy a Windows 8.1 PC instead of installing Linux over their old one that runs XP.
I really hope that SteamOS and SteamMachines catch on and port most of the Steam games to Linux, so I don't have to deal with this nonsense to my non-technical friends and family members. I hope the Steamtroller or whatever is as good as if not better than the XBox one.
Oh yeah I had friends and family members who bought a Macbook, and then ask me how to install Windows apps on it. Run Bootcamp, repartition the hard drive, reboot, stick in your Windows CD/DVD or USB stick and install, you now can dual boot Mac OSX and Windows. Then they don't know how to select it and forget what key to hold down, sell it and buy a Windows 8.1 tablet instead.
Basically if you are expecting an XBox, buy an XBox, if you want a Windows PC/Tablet buy a Windows PC/Tablet. If you want something else that is different and new, and might have a lower footprint OS that runs your games faster, and you don't care that it isn't an XBox or Windows PC/Tablet then try the SteamMachine and SteamOS. But please don't try putting XBox and Windows game disks into the SteamMachine!
Remember the average person that goes to Best Buy is a 'sheeple' controlled by FUD by the news media and other megacorproations to just part with their money on whatever new geegaw gadget they come up with as long as it is a 'trusted brand name' they are familiar with. They go to Best Buy because they hold their hand and tell them what they need to buy. If Valve was smart, they'd make a deal with Geeksquad to partition part of their area into a Steam Store that they can assist people with SteamMachine issues.
I have never faced any issue using the controller to play steam games on my mac.
When Mountain Lion came out I had to update the driver, which had undergone some 32bit -> 64bit change but also added in some other garbage about Xbox chat pads that was breaking when I tried to use it with my Logitech game pad. I don't remember if it kernel panicked or just didn't work. Certainly I caused a kernel panic or two while tinkering with the driver. But I got it working again, mostly by commenting out stuff I didn't want.
Or you could try to debug the source if you're up for that. I would try but don't have the expertise to help without seeing it and tinkering with it.
Restart your machine, Terminate Android File Transfer and try plugging the controller again.
Windows isn't; your parent is explaining that clearly, given the 360 controller works great with Windows, using a controller with your PC is no longer quite the black art to the public that it used to be.
http://www.microsoft.com/hardware/en-us/p/xbox-360-controlle...
This way, all games have a standard controller to develop towards. Everyone loves the Xbox controller, not only because it's a solid device, but because it's the standard controller for PC gaming. Most games are developed with it in mind, so it's typically plug and play. For this reason, I'm going to assume Valve launches a controller that has a similar configuration to the 360 controller, so all the previous games designed for the 360 controller are ready to go. However, it'll probably have some misc tweaks, like buttons to perform certain tasks within the Steam software, and perhaps a touchpad, pull out mini-keyboard or improved motion controls.
I'm not going to worry about people going to Radio Shack or Best Buy and randomly shopping for controllers. I think Valve has this under control, and we'll have THE controller, and third party controllers, similar to any other gaming console.
I totally agree that it's non-obvious to most of the gaming market, though.
Linux, plug and play. Lovely.
http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Wireless-Gaming-Receiver-Wind...
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0096PLB9O/ref=oh_details_o...
To get it working, you need to install the Microsoft Wireless XBox 360 Controller drivers manually, then go to the hardware manager and manually specify the official Microsoft driver as the driver for this device. Easy enough if you know your way around driver updates, but not plug-and-play. It works great, though.
>Am I going to be using a mouse and a keyboard in the living-room?
>If you want. But Steam and SteamOS work well with gamepads, too. Stay tuned, though - we have some more to say very soon on the topic of input.
The third announcement will be the controller Valve patented some time ago. This controller replaces a thumbstick with a trackball, and might let you swap out input devices for different games. Regardless, it'll be painless to set up with SteamOS.
That sounds like a special hell. What would even be the point? Making it marginally easier to control products that were never properly re-designed as living room software at the expense of compatibility with essentially every piece of contemporary living room software?
Here's to hoping that if such a thing is actually rolled out, it falls under "an option" and isn't an approach they put too much emphasis on.
A trackball, on the other hand...
And on top of that, occupy some 'third' control scheme somewhere between "kb/m" and "gamepad" that developers would have to explicitly target, at a time when so few of them even put the time into adding proper kb/m support for their console-first-PC-port-maybe-if-its-cheap-to-farm-out titles.
Not sure just how sturdy the thing will be, all this talk about separate components being stuck together by the user sounds kinda fragile. But if it is, you will be able to configure your pad just the way you want.
Buy Logitech F710 wireless controller.
Plug Logitech controller in.
Notice modern Windows games auto-detect Logitech controller as XBox controller.
Play games.
It's not rocket science. And frankly, most PC gamers are pretty familiar with jumping through far more hoops than that.
Key binding continuity issues are still a problem for most games.
I'd buy a console tomorrow if they allowed mouse/keyboard - sick of all the cheaters in PC gaming, and having games get _better_ as the hardware ages would be a welcome change from having to constantly upgrade my video card to play new releases at a decent frame rate!
[1] http://xim3.com/
The way FPSs interpret mouse movement is by mapping units of mouse movement onto units of rotational movement. If you move the mouse x units to the left, your view will rotate f(x) units (an absolute relation). When mapping joystick movement, the location of the joystick determines the speed at which your view rotates. If the joystick is x units off center, you will move at f(x) units per second until the joystick moves again (a relative relation).
For this reason, it's pretty simple to convert relative joystick movement into mouse movement, since you simply need to map the joystick position onto an absolute mouse velocity. However, it's extremely difficult to turn the absolute mouse movement into a relative joystick position. From what I can tell, it takes the velocity of the mouse movement and returns it as a joystick position, so if you're moving the mouse at x units per second, it will return a joystick position of g(x), which the game will then turn into f(g(x)) units of rotation per second.
What you end up with is jerky and unresponsive. Mouse movement just can't be translated into joystick position in a transparent way. I used the thing for a couple days, and ultimately gave up on it. Even as a hard core Mouse/Keyboard gamer, I preferred the controller over the XIM.
Is this actually true? I've been looking for a decent PC gamepad for a long time. The default recommendation seems to be the Xbox 360 controller, but with the caveat that the d-pad sucks. I play a lot of games that use the d-pad.
What's a good PC gamepad with a good d-pad?
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Logitech-gamepad.JPG
Although I've started seeing compatibility problems recently: the Xbox 360 controller has become such a standard that some newer indie games support ONLY them and not native PC gamepads.
The wireless controllers for the 360 work just fine with the PC. I personally swap mine between them all the time.
Though mine was in white.
From the page. "Xbox 360 Controller for Windows works with most Windows XP-based PCs and Xbox 360, delivering a consistent and universal gaming experience."
It comes with a wireless dongle thing you plug in to your PC. Both the controllers that come with your 360 and this controller can be swapped between your PC and your 360 on demand by pushing the resync button on the controller and on the device simultaneously.
I've never heard of a 360 controller that didn't work both with the PC dongle and the 360 itself.
Naively, I had expected beforehand that the controller to use 802.11(a|b|g|n|ac) or bluetooth and therefore not need another receiver provided that those protocols were already available on the PC, but in the case of the wireless Xbox 360 controller another component is necessary for better or worse.
Luckily, I researched the situation before purchasing another controller with its usage on the PC in mind, so I did not encounter a potential headache until the solution dawned upon me.
Hopefully the next generation PS4 or Xbox One wireless controllers work without taking up a port on the PC with a wireless receiver again.
However, the one which does not specify "...for Windows" will not work with the PC, which is the distinction I am attempting to express when recommending it as an option for PC gaming.
On (US) Amazon the two separate listings are http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Xbox-Wireless-Controller-Win... and http://www.amazon.com/Xbox-360-Wireless-Controller-Glossy-Bl...
The PS3 controllers may work differently, but I do not find them as comfortable to use as the 360 controllers personally.
I regularly use both the controller that came with my 360, and another 360 controller that I brought separately (with no "for windows" marking) in addition the controller that came with the wireless receiver.
I assure you that all 3 are identical.
I have a wireless receiver that came with a 'for Windows' controller, and it works perfectly with the controller that came with my Xbox.
With mice, you can usually just buy Logitech and be guaranteed to get a great product, but with controllers, you'll probably end up relying on word of mouth.
This is why The Wirecutter is so important, but people who play videogames will go to videogame websites for advice instead - and won't be any wiser for it.
Just a thought: In a few weeks every Xbox360 and PS3 will become obsolete. So, what are the chances of me installing SteamOS on there? I'd love to turn my PS3 into a SteamOS box.
Driving games, platformers, RPGs, and more.
Simply use the Logitech Wireless Gamepad F710 for all Steam boxes, problem solved.
It's to me, better than all controllers you mention. It supports BOTH DirectInput and XInput APIs.
Consider:
- You can use your XBox360, PS3 controller, or WiiMote, but that's not obvious. You'll need to do some research to figure out that you CAN do it as well as HOW to do it. Again, the steps aren't particularly complicated (especially for the XBox wired controller), but remember who we're targeting, here. If you don't know much about this stuff, you might be worried you'll break something or won't be able to hook your controller back to your console.
- If this doesn't occur to you or you'd rather not use your console controllers, you might be tempted to buy one of those gaming controllers you see at Radio Shack, Best Buy, or somewhere online. Chances are high that the controller you bought will be quite shitty in comparison to your console controllers. You'll notice everything from drifting inputs to cheap buttons to just plain uncomfortable hand feel. You'll convince yourself that you just picked wrongly, so you do some more research. You eventually come upon something pretty good, but it's expensive and it's STILL not your XBox 360 controller.
- If you get past all this (whether that's finding a good 3rd party controller or reusing your console controller), you're still not QUITE sure how each new PC game will react with a controller. Sure, maybe the mappings make sense, but you worry that you'll come upon something that requires an action the developers forgot to map to a controller button. Or maybe it'll just feel wrong because the controls for your particular game were clearly designed to work best for the physical characteristics of a mouse and keyboard. You know with enough tweaking this won't be a problem, but it still bothers you that you have to tweak anything in the first place.
Nothing I've outlined above is a problem for advanced gamers, but if something like a Steam Machine is ever going to take over the living room, it has to be a natural plug n' play experience with respect to input devices. And I mean natural for your mom or uncle, not for you.
Luckily it sounds like Valve will be addressing this head-on; I am more excited about what they have to say about this than about what the specs of any particular Steam Machine might be or what the beta might look like.