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Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by twoodfin on Sunday August 04, 2013 @11:55PM (#6158350)
That's defining the U.S. luxury car market very narrowly. BMW alone sold 172,000 cars in the U.S. in the first half of this year[1]. 8% of that is more than 13,000 cars, and the report is claiming Tesla sales of roughly 10,000.

Sure, not everything BMW sells is a luxury car, but the U.S. luxury car market is usually defined as much larger than 125,000 cars in a half year.

[1] http://www.theguardian.com/business/2013/jul/08/bmw-record-c...

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by hristov on Monday August 05, 2013 @06:29AM (#6159335)
Fact of the matter is any company is mostly judged based on the market they have chosen to compete in. Tesla make $70K+ cars and they should be judged based on that market.

Porsche (before they were purchased by VW) used to make rather expensive cars and they would always have a rather small percentage of the overall market. But no-one would accuse Porsche of being a failure, because they did very well in their rather lucrative price brackets. In fact Porsche is often called the most successful car company ever due to their big profit margins.

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by larrys on Monday August 05, 2013 @10:30AM (#6160289)
"Porsche (before they were purchased by VW) used to make rather expensive cars "

Porsche still does make "rather expensive cars". What are you referring to exactly?

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by hristov on Monday August 05, 2013 @02:15PM (#6161787)
What I mean is that I am using Porsche as an example only as it pertains to its history of an independent company. I wanted to provide an example of an independent company that is limited to making expensive cars -- i.e., something similar to Tesla.
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by joosters on Monday August 05, 2013 @07:00AM (#6159416)
Car classes like 'luxury', 'midrange' and 'economy' are very loosely defined, and deliberately so. There's no point arguing over what a luxury car is, as many groups will have different answers.

Car companies love this, after all how many times do you see something like "The best [insert feature here] in its class" in their marketing? Because there are so many different definitions of car classes, no-one can prove their statement wrong!

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by beedogs on Monday August 05, 2013 @12:28AM (#6158475)
Never thought I'd see the same lame-brained arguments here that I saw on the reddit thread about this.

The "luxury" class of cars is pretty narrowly defined and includes the A8 and the BMW 7 series. (No, it doesn't include the 3 or the 5, or the A6.)

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by sk5t on Monday August 05, 2013 @01:20AM (#6158605)
I have to disagree with you; the A8, S, and 7er are "large luxury" class cars. The A6 and 5er are "midsize luxury" and the A4 / 3 are "entry luxury." One should also consider the Lexus LS, GS, GX, and LX, an occasional Cadillac, the Toyota Land Cruiser, a variety of Jaguars and Range Rovers, and on and on. It's dishonest to assert that Tesla is taking 8.4% of the entire "luxury market" and then sneak in with the next breath that the luxury market includes only flagship sedans.
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by usaphp on Monday August 05, 2013 @03:35AM (#6158863)
Am I understanding correctly? You are putting audi A4/3($27K MSRP) into the same class as Jaguar(starts at $47K) and Range Rovers ($83K MSRP)? I think Tesla with it's price tag should go into a separate category from audi a4,3...

Edit: According to wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_classification#USA.2C_UK_a...) - the British English "Luxury Car" is represented by: Audi A8, BMW 7 Series, Jaguar XJ, Maserati Quattroporte, Mercedes S-Class.

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by sk5t on Monday August 05, 2013 @10:54AM (#6160440)
Yes, the US taxonomy includes a great swath of vehicles in the "luxury" main category, even though many of them are not directly comparable. For example, the US market would consider the Audi A3/A4 to be the luxury versions of the VW Rabbit/GTI and Passat, and generally the trim levels available in the US reinforce this: it is very unusual to see in the States any Audi with cloth seats, but not uncommon in Europe.

Hardly any Americans would place a BMW 550i in the "non-luxury" group, least of all BMW USA. It isn't the largest or most feature-jammed car in the fleet, but to Americans it is absolutely a luxury car.

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by umsm on Monday August 05, 2013 @01:53PM (#6161637)
This is largely due to the manufacturers. "Americans" don't decide that a 5-series is luxury, it's the manufacturers. You can't buy a BMW or Mercedes without all of the bells an whistles. You can't even buy many of the cheaper cars (i.e. A-Class) from those manufacturers in the US.
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by justin66 on Monday August 05, 2013 @09:39AM (#6159994)
It is a very broad class. It literally divides vehicles into luxury and non-luxury, so we shouldn't expect it to be limited to a small number of cars.
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by walshemj on Monday August 05, 2013 @11:42AM (#6160762)
I would put the RS versions of the 5 & 6 in luxury and probably all the RS sort of qualify as would some of the S models (not the S Line thats just trim)
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by Too on Monday August 05, 2013 @07:44AM (#6159541)
If you call A6 and 5-series luxury cars then half of Germany / northern Europe are driving luxury cars, that is by definition not luxury. Those are called "upper midrange" or "premium".
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by tadfisher on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @04:42AM (#6165483)
The cheaper trim levels and options packages are not available Stateside.
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by volume on Monday August 05, 2013 @10:33AM (#6160318)
I'd like to join in on this game. How about this for an idea:

I disagree with both of you. Your categories are all are artificial and for people with "new money". It's a concern for those who seek to differentiate themselves from the rest the middle class by burning cash on these silly toys. Those with true wealth find this mundane and even distasteful.

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by protomyth on Monday August 05, 2013 @12:52AM (#6158543)
Given what the original report actually says, your answer might be a tad bit more lame-brained than the person you are responding to.

"PEV[1] sales, while not matching up with original sales targets laid out by some auto manufacturers, have been strong for a new entrant in a market that has been dominated by internal combustion engine vehicles (ICEs) for a century. Through their first 30 months in the marketplace (2011-2013), sales of PEVs have been more than double the sales of hybrid electric vehicles (HEVs) in their first years in the U.S. market (2000-2002) and the sales continue to grow—June 2013 saw the strongest PEV sales numbers yet, and more than 110,000 units have been sold to date. In the luxury segment, Tesla’s Model S has captured 8.4 percent of the market in the first six months of 2013."

So, the 8.4% is actually not "luxury" class cars at all. It is a subset.

1) plug-in electric vehicles

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by sliverstorm on Monday August 05, 2013 @02:20AM (#6158711)
Never thought I'd see the same lame-brained arguments here that I saw on the reddit thread about this.

The overlap between the two communities is probably larger than you want to believe.

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by kayoone on Monday August 05, 2013 @02:57AM (#6158790)
In that case the Tesla isnt a luxury car either because it competes with the likes of 5 and 6 Series BMW and Audi A5/A6. It clearly is not an A8, 7 series or S Class rival.
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by acchow on Monday August 05, 2013 @03:47AM (#6158887)
Model S seems to rival both the 5er and 7er in size (btw, seats 7)
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by walshemj on Monday August 05, 2013 @07:36AM (#6159521)
I woudl put all the RS Audis into the luxury bracket
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by tptacek on Sunday August 04, 2013 @11:59PM (#6158359)
I'm curious where the model cutoff would be for "luxury" BMWs. They're all luxury cars, from what I can tell.
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by buro9 on Monday August 05, 2013 @02:09AM (#6158692)
According to this https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_classification it's less cost than the size and purpose of the vehicle.

Only the 7-series is unambiguously luxury. Which aligns with my European view that a 3-series is your bog standard "large family car" or "small executive car".

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by marssaxman on Monday August 05, 2013 @08:00PM (#6164008)
3-series is seen as a compact sports car here in the USA.
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by buro9 on Thursday August 08, 2013 @08:34AM (#6178467)
Sounds more like the M labelled cars, much like Benz's AMG range.

Is the non-M 3-series considered sports?

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by lazyjones on Monday August 05, 2013 @05:14AM (#6159113)
> BMWs. They're all luxury cars, from what I can tell.

BMW 5 series are the most-purchased company cars here in Austria, they certainly aren't luxury cars anywhere outside the 3rd world, although they might enjoy a certain brand image in the US ...

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by eitally on Monday August 05, 2013 @05:53AM (#6159225)
The difference is that in the US, neither BMW nor M-B market stripper versions of their cars. In order to buy a 5 series or E Class you will end up with at least a 528 (with significant number of interior luxury features) or an E350. Both of them start at about US$50k, and to me that is squarely luxury. Interestingly, well over half of all of them are leased, not purchased.
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by lazyjones on Monday August 05, 2013 @06:43AM (#6159367)
The cheapest BMW 5 series model here in Austria sells for EUR 41900 (USD 55620) including taxes (MSRP).

BMW is an expensive brand, but the 5 series is mid-range.

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by justin66 on Monday August 05, 2013 @08:15AM (#6159638)
The way things are defined in the US, the BMW 5 series is a luxury car. It represents close to the maximum amount of amenities for a given size class and, well, the car magazines call it a luxury car. There's not much else to it...

It's certainly possible they're equipped differently here, as so many cars are. If that's not the case and Austrians simply have a different sense of "luxury car" I wonder what you guys have that trumps the 5 series in that size category, as far as "luxury" is concerned.

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by tptacek on Monday August 05, 2013 @10:43AM (#6160378)
A 55k sedan isn't "mid-range"!
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by twoodfin on Monday August 05, 2013 @12:05AM (#6158391)
It's debatable whether you'd call a Mini a "luxury car". They're certainly priced like they are!
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by sk5t on Monday August 05, 2013 @01:27AM (#6158619)
Minis are often sold alongside BMWs but they are not branded BMWs. Otherwise... is a Bentley a Volkswagen, or vice versa?
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by thrownaway2424 on Monday August 05, 2013 @12:07AM (#6158401)
For the purpose of this headline, "luxury" appears to have been defined as "expensive".
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by derefr on Monday August 05, 2013 @12:21AM (#6158446)
I bet there is an objective criteria for it, though (if not a very clear one).

A thought-experiment: say you wreck your car, and your insurance provider is going to give you a loaner.

They want this loaner car to impress you (the cost of one regular car, however nice, is not much skin off their back, especially if they get to amortize it over all the people they lend it out to; and they want to give you the impression that they've got enough money to cover any problem you might have, so that you'll keep paying your premiums--the same reason bank lobbies look so "stately.")

However, they don't want to spend too much, because there's a point where cars switch from regular goods, to being Veblen goods. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Veblen_good)

The optimum between impressing you the most, and avoiding spending way more than the car "should" be worth for an any marginal gain of impressiveness, should define the type of car they loan out (and it does, in my experience.) You can draw the "luxury" inflection point as being exactly the next-most-expensive models up from these, where the value proposition stops making sense to economically-rational actors.

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by twoodfin on Monday August 05, 2013 @12:10AM (#6158408)
Where "expensive" was defined as "at least as expensive as a Model S".
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by alixr on Monday August 05, 2013 @12:12AM (#6158412)
While most BMW's are expensive, I would consider the 7-series line "luxury".
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by varjag on Monday August 05, 2013 @05:36AM (#6159181)
Most of the cabs where I live are Mercedes. I had three different cars in the driving school: two BMW 318 (petrol and diesel) and a Merc E270.

I would hesitate calling those luxury vehicles, if only based on their ubiquitous use by working professionals.

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by soperj on Monday August 05, 2013 @12:05AM (#6158392)
BMW makes vehicles other than cars(SUV, Motorcycle..)
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by corford on Monday August 05, 2013 @07:33AM (#6159514)
I wouldn't call a 1 series luxury?
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by mrkurt on Monday August 05, 2013 @12:04AM (#6158388)
Everything above a Mini.
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by jgalt212 on Monday August 05, 2013 @08:23AM (#6159677)
I agree. They use a pretty bad (i.e. unreasonable) definition of luxury car market.

I live in Manhattan (so maybe Tesla is not big here), but in the last year I've only seen 2 Teslas on the road. By comparison, I see about 5-10 Audi A8's a day.

Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by osi on Monday August 05, 2013 @08:42AM (#6159736)
i haven't seen a good answer from tesla for apartment dwellers, or rented parking spaces. both of which are more endemic in NYC. to own your own property and own the parking spot so that you could install a charger is a lot.
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by stcredzero on Monday August 05, 2013 @04:37PM (#6162817)
For city dwellers, something like Zipcar combined with technology where you don't have to travel to pick the car up would be ideal.
Re:Tesla Nabs 8% of the U.S. Luxury Car Market by qq66 on Tuesday August 06, 2013 @04:23AM (#6165427)
But what fraction of those A8s were purchased in the last six months, when Tesla has been an option?