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Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by DanBC on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:07AM (#5879651)
Why on earth would he want to come to the UK?

It's [edit] certainly not the place to be if you want privacy.

RIPA (regulation of investigatory powers act) has been abused by local council staff spying on public to see if they live within a school catchment area or within an area qualifying for cheap parking. There are other abuses too.

We're bringing in a "snooper's charter" - this is just traffic data and not content of calls, but still, it's pretty unpleasant.

We had / have "Phorm" - deep packet inspection of customer internet traffic in order to serve ads.

The idea of national ID cards had a small number of opponents, but was mostly met with "meh". The thing that actually killed it was the cost to the individual. I'm sure that if they had kept the cost to £30 per person we'd all have ID cards today.

In theory GCHQ have strict regulatory oversight. I do know people who work for GCHQ. I never talk to them about work, and they never talk to me about work, but they do say that regulatory oversight is real and true.

But we don't have the US concept of "fruit of the poisoned tree" - in the US a wiretap needs a court order, and without that any evidence gained cannot be used in court. That forces cops to actually get the court order, or risk losing cases. In the UK we allow spies to gather this stuff, and police to take action on it, but we don't want it used in court because then it's a matter of public record and thus subject to scrutiny and we leak information about capabilities. I see the benefit in both approaches, but I can appreciate that some people would be horrified with the English approach.

We were complicit in torture of innocent, untried, uncharged, soldiers / terrorists / combatants.

We have detention without charge (http://www.liberty-human-rights.org.uk/human-rights/terroris...).

The UK has about 1% of the world population, but about 20% of the installed CCTV base.

Cheshire has a population of 700,000 people (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire) but has over 12,000 CCTV cameras, of which about 500 - 600 are run by public authorities.

(http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/mar/02/cctv-cameras-watchi...)

We happily ship people to the US under our unbalanced extradition treaty.

tl;dr: He'd be nuts to want to come here.

{EDIT: Strikethrough [a horrible place to live, and] in response to people below}

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by singular on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:19AM (#5879718)

   "It's a horrible place to live"
Though we have many problems, please speak for yourself and stay off general comments about the country. Your other points are valid and interesting but you really ruin them with your frankly childish comment - just because you, personally find the entirety of the country horrible doesn't mean that is close to the reality of living here or the experience of everybody else.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by enraged_camel on Friday June 14, 2013 @11:10AM (#5880332)
In all fairness, it does sound like a horrible place to live. I mean, on top of all the problems he listed, you guys also have awful weather. :)
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by singular on Friday June 14, 2013 @01:42PM (#5881236)
I'm not going to deny that our weather is awful :) but there is a lot of good too - a relatively free democracy (aside from all the questionable stuff listed above that let's face it is likely occurring in every western country, though we might be leading the way on CCTV) which is far, far less infiltrated by religious nuts than many countries, London which alone counts for a HELL of a lot :), lots of history, good cheddar cheese, and most important of all - weather-induced sense of humour! ;-)
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by duiker101 on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:23AM (#5879739)
It might be that "the neighbor's grass is always greener" but as an Italian living in the UK I think that 98% of the things here are way better. That 2% missing is the climate and the food. I really think the UK is a great place to live but as I said, maybe you hate it because you lived here too much and I love it because I am "relatively" new.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by kryten on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:35AM (#5879793)
To be fair, all the 14 CCTV cameras on my street (!) have been sprayed, burned or shot.

That's the only crime going on around where I live.

People aren't putting up with this shit any more.

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by DanBC on Friday June 14, 2013 @10:22AM (#5880060)
I think this graffiti project is quite funny. (http://www.irational.org/heath/cctv_sabotage/)
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by kryten on Friday June 14, 2013 @10:28AM (#5880096)
That is pretty cool.

The only problem being that you're probably going to get caught doing it.

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by finnw on Friday June 14, 2013 @10:43AM (#5880180)
Shame all they need to work around it is to have 2 or more cameras pointing at the same spot (which is usually the case in London.)
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by finnw on Friday June 14, 2013 @10:33AM (#5880120)
Thanks. I love paying extra tax to replace vandalised cameras.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by kryten on Friday June 14, 2013 @10:47AM (#5880200)
They're not getting replaced, so you're not paying for it.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by alexqgb on Friday June 14, 2013 @11:08AM (#5880320)
That's one option. Another option is insisting they be removed so that you're no longer exposed to the costs of damage incurred by the imposition of socially dubious programs.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by shawabawa3 on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:28AM (#5879761)
> It's a horrible place to live

Well fuck you too.

Although I do agree with the rest of your post.

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by jamespo on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:53AM (#5879887)
You forgot to mention there are a high proportion of whiners in the UK.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by epo on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:27AM (#5879756)
It's not even remotely a horrible place to live. On the strength of that idiocy I feel confident that you have never been anywhere else and that you have no opinons worth taking seriously. How old are you? 13?
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by potatolicious on Friday June 14, 2013 @10:00AM (#5879931)
He called (presumably) your country a bad place to live.

Your response is a drastic overreaction and is nothing more than an ad hominem attack on another user. Nothing in his post suggests he's never been elsewhere or that he's particularly immature.

Does your post seem like a reasonable response to anything?

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by kryten on Friday June 14, 2013 @07:19AM (#5879272)
He'll be fine if he can get to the Ecuadorian Embassy quick enough :)

I live in the UK and am utterly disgusted at the pieces of shit that act in our name.

You can't vote them out as it's a bipartisan system with two sets of the same ideals.

You can't revolt because everyone is too busy staring at Simon Cowel's nefarious trash pumped through our telescreens.

You can't speak up because it's illegal.

Sit, obey, conform.

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by znowi on Friday June 14, 2013 @08:45AM (#5879561)
Funny, it sounds very similar to the US :) I wonder why :)
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by kryten on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:21AM (#5879729)
Well same turd, rolled in different glitter to be honest.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by ameen on Friday June 14, 2013 @08:12AM (#5879440)
That cracked me up. Is Assange expected to die in that embassy?
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by kryten on Friday June 14, 2013 @08:30AM (#5879502)
At the moment, yes. His only other options are:

1. Get from the building to a diplomatically immune car and out of the EU. Not going to happen: the fuzz will snag him the moment he steps out of the door.

2. Wait for a politically sympathetic party is voted in and the extradition rules are changed. Not going to happen: people are too stupid to vote for anything other than "the big two" and if they did, they won't change policy or America will go all "Fuck Yeah" on our arses.

3. Wait for the whole thing to be uncovered publicly as a fucking massive international political scam and he is pardoned.

4. Hope that Kurzweil was right, upload his conscious mind to a machine with OpenSSH and SCP himself overseas.

I reckon (3) is most likely.

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by aptwebapps on Friday June 14, 2013 @08:52AM (#5879589)
I'd add:

5. He finally gets stir crazy enough to attempt to sneak out and gets collared or just decides to take his chances in Sweden.

6. Ecuador gets sick of him and kicks him out (maybe after a change of leadership).

And I think 5 is likelier than 3.

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by potatolicious on Friday June 14, 2013 @10:02AM (#5879944)
I feel like 6 is likely to happen before anything else. His presence is a net negative for Ecuador, I can't see it being very popular that they have a highly wanted individual hanging around the house all day.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by gaius on Friday June 14, 2013 @03:08PM (#5881807)
Swedish jails are actually very humane; the irony is he would have gotten more sunlight, fresh air, exercise and probably better food too, if he had just surrendered a year ago.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by kryten on Friday June 14, 2013 @03:14PM (#5881842)
Until they extradite him to the US that is...
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by gaius on Friday June 14, 2013 @03:25PM (#5881906)
Would be a breach of EU law if they did - as he was extradited from the UK, he has to be returned to the UK. And if the UK was going to extradite him, why would he be so keen on staying here?
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by aptwebapps on Saturday June 15, 2013 @05:40AM (#5884605)
As far as extradition goes, he's technically in Ecuador right now, not the UK. If he were, he'd be gone already ;)
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by tjmc on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:13AM (#5879684)
What about the old magicians trick where 100 people walk in, put on Guy Fawkes masks, then all leave at once in different directions?!

I for one hope he gets to take a senate seat in Australia. Under the rules of parliamentary privilege you can say anything in the chamber without risk of prosecution. Imagine he'd have a bit to say...

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by gaius on Friday June 14, 2013 @03:13PM (#5881836)
I don't know what you're imagining the Ecuadorean embassy to be, but it's actually just a large-ish apartment in a normal apartment building. There aren't that many doors, probably only a front door and a fire escape. And from the photos, I don't think they're on the ground floor either, so they can't even tunnel out...

That's one of the reasons they want rid of him - they didn't have much space to start with.

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by kryten on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:19AM (#5879721)
They invented the machine gun for such circumstances.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by gexla on Friday June 14, 2013 @12:48PM (#5880899)
5. They get so sick of sharing that place with him that they appoint him ambassador to the UK for life and the rest of the staff bails.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by grecy on Friday June 14, 2013 @01:05PM (#5881022)
If the powers that be get desperate enough they'll just burn down the embassy, forcing him to come out.

It will be an "accidental" gas leak or some such.

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by doe88 on Friday June 14, 2013 @08:48AM (#5879573)
(related) since he's been confined in this place I was wondering what happens if he must see a dentist or receive some emergency medical cares? It's better than gitmo but it's no paradise either.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by nly on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:14AM (#5879687)
Pay someone enough and they'll come to you.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by theklub on Friday June 14, 2013 @08:35AM (#5879515)
I came up with a crazy idea this morning for an internet based political party that allows its members to vote on all ideas and actions the party will take. I think now is the time for something like this. We need to make it happen.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by Jenk on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:48AM (#5879858)
Be careful on what you wish for.

"The strongest argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." Winston Churchill.

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by kryten on Friday June 14, 2013 @10:20AM (#5880044)
Perhaps we should give people a proportional vote weighted by their intelligence?
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by alexjeffrey on Friday June 14, 2013 @11:06AM (#5880306)
that sounds like a formula for a true intellectually elitist society. The people's opinions should be heard equally if at all.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by kryten on Friday June 14, 2013 @11:35AM (#5880477)
My point entirely. There was a degree of sarcasm in it.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by kryten on Friday June 14, 2013 @08:42AM (#5879552)
Could be right.

If you could text your vote in, most of the UK could even manage to have an opinion between the adverts in the X-Factor and their next cigarette.

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by nly on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:11AM (#5879673)
Good distributed voting at scale is still an unsolved problem. Well, it is if you care about both the integrity of the vote and voter privacy.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by jpatokal on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:03AM (#5879636)
The Pirate Party has been there and is doing that: http://liquidfeedback.org/mission/
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by ck2 on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:34AM (#5879787)
the notice was not supposed to be seen by the public

I am starting to think the people on the other side of "the public doesn't need to know" enjoy their little fantasy world a little too much.

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by mtgx on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:42AM (#5879831)
What do they have to hide, if they've done nothing wrong? I think we should ask them this question everytime they try to keep something secret from the public.

I don't remember who said it recently, but it's the people who need to know everything their government is doing at all times, not the other way around, with the government knowing everything their citizens do, but keeping everything they do secret. We need to turn this around.

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by buro9 on Friday June 14, 2013 @06:29AM (#5879159)
He'd be foolish to come to the UK anyway, we'd extradite him before he'd left the airport.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by gutnor on Friday June 14, 2013 @07:13AM (#5879258)
"liable to costs relating to the individual's detention and removal'' should they allow him to travel. According to the Home Office's website that charge would be £2,000"

Being a little bit cynical, but 2000 GBP seems closer to the cost of shipping him to the US than the cost of detaining him.

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by smelendez on Friday June 14, 2013 @01:40PM (#5881217)
Even if they just denied him entry and/or deported him, it would probably would be back to either where he flew from or where his passport's from. And Hong Kong might not want him back once he's been denied entry to the UK, so to the US he would most likely go.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by josscrowcroft on Friday June 14, 2013 @07:37AM (#5879324)
"There is no suggestion that he has any intention to try to travel to the UK."

Says it all really. Don't waste your time reading this hypey article.

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by hackerboos on Friday June 14, 2013 @07:21AM (#5879275)
Surely Snowden knows that there isn't safe harbour in the UK after what happened to Assange?
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by mpyne on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:54AM (#5879896)
Though I do agree with your main point, nothing happened to Assange until Sweden asked to have him extradited to complete the charging process.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by jetti on Friday June 14, 2013 @01:39PM (#5881213)
Which is what the US is already doing with Snowden. It shows what the UK would already do with Snowden if he did go to the UK.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by mpyne on Friday June 14, 2013 @06:30PM (#5882882)
I'm a bit confused here, even Schneier said that Snowden undoubtedly broke the law, what did you think the U.S. was going to do, especially now that he is talking about leaking details of NSA hacking activities over to China? It's comparatively easy to grant a pardon after extradition for PRISM alone, he's making the rest more difficult.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by junto on Friday June 14, 2013 @07:39AM (#5879328)
I imagine that Snowden is well aware of the UK's 'poodle' relationship.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by xutopia on Friday June 14, 2013 @10:04AM (#5879962)
This is known as the highest honour you can get just above knighthood.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by jimmithy on Friday June 14, 2013 @10:59AM (#5880265)
Could this not be them acting in his best interests? Giving a warning that they will be unable to help him while still looking strong to the Americans?
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by thehme on Friday June 14, 2013 @02:31PM (#5881562)
I hope Edward Snowden is well wherever he goes, even if the UK, but according to "news" reports, he was making a lot of money, so he is probably in a beach somewhere. In any case, hopefully bring the NSA problem to the public eye will encourage the world to be more private and to demand privacy from their govs.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by gaius on Friday June 14, 2013 @03:09PM (#5881816)
Being on the run is incredibly expensive. You will burn money at 10x the rate of normal life. And he's not getting a salary any more (and even so, that salary wasn't too dissimilar from what a sysadmin in SF would get).
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by alxbrun on Friday June 14, 2013 @09:37AM (#5879807)
As always, the UK merely acts as a vassal to the US.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by MRSallee on Friday June 14, 2013 @10:36AM (#5880139)
Remember when radio host Michael Savage was banned from the UK? I get the feeling it's not hard to get banned from the country.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by daywalker on Friday June 14, 2013 @11:56AM (#5880607)
Michael Savage is still banned apparently. He was raging about it the other day.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by biff on Friday June 14, 2013 @01:09PM (#5881052)
I remember when that decision first came down, and his show was playing The Kinks "Living on a Thin Line" into and out of break (the first part: "All the stories have been told / Of kings and days of old, / But there's no England now.")

Within a few days, if I recall correctly, he was asking the audience to buy copies of his new book and mail them to whoever it was in England that set the rules in this regard, to send her a message.

I'm on the left edge of the political spectrum, assuming that's 2D, but every time Michael Savage was on and I was doing something where I could listen to talk radio I'd tune in. Guy knows how to put on an entertaining show.

Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by eliasmacpherson on Friday June 14, 2013 @11:20AM (#5880395)
At one time America was England's colony, fancy that.
Re:Snowden banned from flying to UK by wilfra on Friday June 14, 2013 @07:42AM (#5879335)
I'm not sure if this is a clever or pathetic attempt to try and manipulate the courts in HK, but that's pretty clearly what it is. They are a former English colony, whose courts are based on English law and who presumably hold the opinions of England in very high regard.