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Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by marginalia_nu on Monday November 09, 2026 @05:47PM (#50433398)
If models are getting exponentially cheaper and more powerful, going all in a year ago is kind of insane. There's ostensibly this reverse token value inflation where whatever you spend on AI today, you'll get much more for the same dollar tomorrow (assuming models get cheaper and better). There's really a weird sort of late mover's advantage to just holding off and saving your money unless you expect your profit to grow faster than AI becomes more powerful.
Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by _kulang on Monday November 09, 2026 @05:52PM (#50433460)
Growth and change is so fast that waiting is almost a virtue. Why spend effort getting opus 4.8 to work on my codebase when opus 5.5 will arrive within 8 months anyway? Why spend effort getting opus 5.5 to do anything when opus 6 will arrive in the near future?

The only things that I do with AI at my job are easy things. AI hasn’t transformed hard work in quite the same way, but it has given me access to knowledge and information about things and processes that I didn’t have before

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by NoPicklez on Monday November 09, 2026 @05:56PM (#50433517)
You could make this claim right now as well, may as well wait now until the models are cheaper and better later.

You could say in a years time that going in now was kind of insane.

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by marginalia_nu on Monday November 09, 2026 @06:03PM (#50433595)
The sane move in such an environment is to wait and let other people leeroy jenkins in and make mistakes, learn from their blunders, and only move once clear best practices are in place.
Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by embedding-shape on Monday November 09, 2026 @06:06PM (#50433635)
I dunno, personally I learn best by fucking up myself, even observing others fucking up from afar seems to not nearly have the same impact and knowledge-gaining. I always make sure to learn in low-stakes environments though, not like Facebook's "Move fast, break democracies" approach.
Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by marginalia_nu on Monday November 09, 2026 @06:08PM (#50433661)
Well you can still fiddle on projects if you feel like it. But like maybe don't bet the entire business on a venture to figure out best practices for AI coding.
Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by NoPicklez on Monday November 09, 2026 @06:50PM (#50434086)
My point is that you don't know when you're actually at that point. The only way you can make learn from blunders is to make some mistakes yourself. Waiting will only inevitably ensure you make mistakes others did a year ago.

Waiting is also a risk averse take and many organisations don't want to wait and are prepared to spend extra

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by marginalia_nu on Monday November 09, 2026 @07:24PM (#50434432)
Risktaking is necessary for startups (and part of their advantage), but most larger organizations are generally risk averse to a fault.

Not only is predictability very important for publicly listed companies if they want any investors what so ever, many organizations older than say 25 years have a near constant hangover caused by poor tech decisions they've made in the past, redundant duplicate systems due to mergers and acquisitions, half-finished attempts to migrate a COBOL system to something newer, an Oracle DB license that costs a third of the IT budget they can't migrate off. The older the org the nastier it gets.

This is why the business world not only runs on Java, but old Java, it's why AAA game studios keep rehashing the same safe bets rather than trying something different, why Hollywood has turned into an assembly line for making superhero movies, why the sky is full of airliners designed in the 1960s.

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by NoPicklez on Monday November 09, 2026 @08:13PM (#50434798)
Risk taking isn't just for startups. Yes startups make riskier decisions in certain areas but that doesn't mean other instructions are being risk averse.

Some of the largest and longest institutions are going in on AI.

And is exactly my point that these comments are coming from that these companies are going in on AI when some people think its not ready yet. My point is when exactly do you define that AI is ready to be used or when should you wait. Nobody can answer that question right now and is my response to the comments we're talking from.

> The sane move in such an environment is to wait and let other people leeroy jenkins in and make mistakes, learn from their blunders, and only move once clear best practices are in place.

How we do actually know when we have reached this point, is it now? Was it 12 months ago? Will it be in 12 months time? And should you just let your competitors invest in having a go while you wait. No I don't think you can.

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by ryanbrunner on Monday November 09, 2026 @07:22PM (#50434416)
This is only a sane move if the thing you're optimizing is to make the best product with no regard for time.

Unfortunately, time is a constraint for every company that exists, and a kinda-crappy implementation of something that's available today often beats a perfect implementation tomorrow.

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by marginalia_nu on Monday November 09, 2026 @07:25PM (#50434442)
Why is time a constraint?

Like with accelerating productivity gains, why does it matter if I do most of the work in the beginning of a project, or toward the end?

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by streetfighter64 on Monday November 09, 2026 @07:36PM (#50434525)
If you have users that want a feature, are you telling them, wait six months and I'll give you a perfect implementation, or, here's a 80% good enough feature you can use tomorrow?
Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by marginalia_nu on Monday November 09, 2026 @07:45PM (#50434602)
If you have users, presumably your users are already paying you, so why are you rushing out half-baked features to meet their feature requests? They'll almost certainly keep paying you whether the feature comes tomorrow or in six months.

Changing vendors is a pain in the ass, especially in B2B. Like case in point, Confluence has been around for 20+ years and still doesn't have a working search function, and is comically useless it is at everything it does. Yet businesses all over the world are all in on that garbage.

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by streetfighter64 on Monday November 09, 2026 @07:52PM (#50434649)
> rushing out half-baked features to meet their feature requests

Holy strawman batman!

Wouldn't you prefer confluence fix their search now rather than hold off until the can fix it perfectly according to your end-all-be-all spec (that'll be invalidated after 2 weeks of actual use anyway)?

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by marginalia_nu on Monday November 09, 2026 @08:01PM (#50434713)
Well someone at some point requested a search function, maybe a business owner in house or a customer, but regardless they said "no problem fam" and hastily hacked together the monstrosity they've built.

What I'd preferred was if they took the time to implement it correctly from the get go. What they built instead is of no use to anyone. It's a search function in name, but it doesn't provide useful search results.

Search is hard though. From how it's behaving I think they're just sticking the data in Elasticsearch or Lucene or some such, without having done the long and arduous effort of then making it good.

Though my point is that even though confluence has a search function so broken they effectively don't have a search function, they aren't meaningfully bleeding customers over it. Business sales are incredibly sticky that way. Regardless of what pleases me as a user, Atlassian has no real incentive to fix the problem, and evidently hasn't (at least last I checked).

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by streetfighter64 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:43AM (#50437256)
Right, well in my opinion the goal of software development is making users happy. Having no search, or a terrible search, or a hypothetical "correct" search some unknown date in the future doesn't make anybody happy.

Which is why I consider it better to use the tools that I have today to make a feature that is good enough. Rather than cynically leaning on some vendor lock-in to hope the customers stay.

Given that you seem to consider Atlassian's software so crappy, it's a bit confusing that you bring them up as an example of good management? Your advice is basically, write crappy software and don't spend any energy improving it, until you can do so for the minimum cost.

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by ryanbrunner on Wednesday November 11, 2026 @04:38AM (#50451404)
"Correctly" is a spectrum.

Pretty much 0% of users want a hastily implemented search bar that doesn't really work.

I would argue that 0% of users want the world's most perfect search bar, lovingly crafted, that took 2 years to make and went through multiple rounds of gold-plating, and occupied all of the team's time while their competitors expanded their product offering with tons of new features.

Somewhere in the middle there's going to be a distribution of acceptable-ness. I would wager a functional but unimpressive search bar that can be turned around in a few days beats something that's designed to the nines but takes a few months to ship.

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by JeremyNT on Monday November 09, 2026 @11:34PM (#50436099)
Or I dunno you can just test it out?

I feel like the mandate thing is silly though. Go "all in" in the sense that you enable employees who want to use these things, but let engineers adopt at their own pace.

The proof is in their work output and overall job satisfaction.

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by red-iron-pine on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @10:21AM (#50441650)
but how can i be a tech leader if i'm not making bold pronunciations and signaling to VC?
Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by marcus_holmes on Monday November 09, 2026 @07:50PM (#50434640)
Like everything in tech, it's a trade-off.

Go faster now and get the benefits now (as TFA said, they did ship a lot of stuff very quickly), but risk piling up a huge amount of tech debt? Or wait and get less short term benefit, but more long term benefit?

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by ares623 on Monday November 09, 2026 @05:59PM (#50433548)
So what you're really saying is to... hodl your tokens?
Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by amw-zero on Monday November 09, 2026 @06:04PM (#50433612)
But then you won't know how to efficiently use AI, so you'll still end up spending more money when you start using it, nullifying any of the micro-optimization you were trying to do in the first place.
Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by rogerrogerr on Monday November 09, 2026 @06:05PM (#50433633)
I wish "how to efficiently use AI" was a deep subject; it isn't. You point it at problems and they get solved. It's mega boring, and the main reason I'm looking to leave the industry.
Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by netrem on Monday November 09, 2026 @06:13PM (#50433700)
Overengineering it can also harm performance. When a new model comes out with a different system prompt, custom instructions can become a hindrance.
Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by amw-zero on Monday November 09, 2026 @08:01PM (#50434710)
I'm not seeing that in practice. It's another infinite space. We don't know what the best techniques are at all, and there are many many different ways to apply it.

What I can confidently tell you is writing a 2-sentence description of an application you want built does not work in any sense of the word. And, the difference between vibe coding and agentic engineering is vast.

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by marginalia_nu on Monday November 09, 2026 @06:06PM (#50433639)
Why do you have to personally invent how to effectively use AI? You can learn from other people's mistakes, wait for best practices to settle. Be Java.
Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by Jare on Monday November 09, 2026 @06:13PM (#50433703)
> Be Java.

Ok if this is the advice then I'm gonna look for a second opinion first. :)

More seriously: making any crap with AI is trivial and doesn't need learning. Making something better and more valuable than all the competitors *that have the same tools as you* is more involved, and relies 100% on knowing how to extract unique value from the tools. A part of that comes from your product/industry expertise (acquired before AI, much like your competitors), but unless you're a genius or in a greenfield, what will matter will be the other part where you have trained hard to be a better driver than your competition who just waited and watched a few youtubes.

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by gonzalohm on Monday November 09, 2026 @06:10PM (#50433680)
Aren't AI companies aiming at a level of AI that would basically be "do this app" and will take care of everything?

If not, what are they even doing that they keep burning through piles of cash?

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by latentsea on Monday November 09, 2026 @08:16PM (#50434816)
> But then you won't know how to efficiently use AI, so you'll still end up spending more money when you start using it, nullifying any of the micro-optimization you were trying to do in the first place.

Not really. Models eat harnesses. Once the new model drops it invalidates lots of harness engineering people have done, and invalidates things they have learnt about how to efficiently use AI. The better models get the less need there is to need to know how to use them efficiently. They're also getting better at helping you use them efficiently.

It's weird. It's like no matter what you do, it's all just a waste of time.

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by red-iron-pine on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @10:22AM (#50441670)
only way to win is not to play

or maybe double-down extra hard

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by AnimalMuppet on Monday November 09, 2026 @06:06PM (#50433645)
It depends on how you read the market - not the AI market, but the one your code is addressing. If it's a growth market with some lock-in, being first matters a fair amount. If you didn't have the people to hand-code it, then you want to code it as soon as you have the (people + money for tokens) that will get it done.

But if that isn't your competitive landscape...

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by throw0101d on Monday November 09, 2026 @06:08PM (#50433666)
> There's ostensibly this reverse token value inflation where whatever you spend on AI today, you'll get much more for the same dollar tomorrow

"reverse token value inflation"?

Do you perhaps means "deflation"?

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by georgemcbay on Monday November 09, 2026 @06:17PM (#50433753)
Wouldn't be surprised if a "year ago" is a rough estimate.

I recall mid-to-late November 2025 being a big inflection point where it finally became obvious that these things could actually be trusted to do a decent amount (but not all) of the coding. So maybe it was more like 8 months ago or whatever that they went all-in, close enough to a year for a random reddit rant.

The overall gist of what the person posted matches my experience though. The fall-off on understanding the code to any meaningful degree happens very quick once you give full rein to the LLM and lean into mostly-automated reviewing.

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by streetfighter64 on Monday November 09, 2026 @07:43PM (#50434584)
> saving your money unless you expect your profit to grow faster than AI becomes more powerful.

You haven't really said how you actually get "more". Selling stuff usually works by resolving a need or want your customers have. If you can use AI as a tool to resolve one such want today, how will resolving it for 1/10th the cost in a few months actually help your business?

Even if you're making a new invention or something, sitting on the idea until you can make it for fewer dollars, will just open up to somebody else doing it earlier. And they'll have time to work out any kinks that inevitably only appear during actual testing...

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by marginalia_nu on Monday November 09, 2026 @07:53PM (#50434666)
You can still work on what you're working on with methods that are already proven to work until new methods are well understood to work better.
Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by streetfighter64 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @02:24AM (#50437153)
I suppose we disagree on whether LLMs as a method are currently "well understood to work better (than not using LLMs in any capacity)" or not.

That's not really what you claimed in the first part though. Your argument there was more along the lines of "regardless of how well your current tool works, you shouldn't use it if there's a likelihood a more efficient tool will come along in the future".

I mean, doesn't the below argument apply to like, buying a computer? According to Moore's law one has/had a "late mover's advantage" by where waiting to buy for two years doubled your value for money. So why do you own a computer already, aren't you better of saving your money?

> There's really a weird sort of late mover's advantage to just holding off and saving your money unless you expect your profit to grow faster than AI becomes more powerful.

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by derf_ on Monday November 09, 2026 @08:23PM (#50434878)
This has already been studied in the context of Moore's law [0]. The answer is that if you assume a doubling every 18 months, then any project that takes less than (18 / ln 2) ~= 26 months will finish fastest if begun immediately. For a project that takes longer, you should wait until your project will take 26 months to complete with current hardware, and buy your new hardware and start it then.

You can plug in whatever numbers you want for the growth rate, but I don't think there are many uses of LLMs that require anything like months' worth of tokens to generate results at this point. Feel free to slack off if you are one of the exceptions.

[0] https://arxiv.org/abs/astro-ph/9912202

Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by morkalork on Monday November 09, 2026 @08:40PM (#50435014)
Nah, that just means yolo now and even if it's a mess unfucking it tomorrow will cost less, right? But seriously though, people seemingly aren't looking ahead like that tbh.
Re:A year after the 100% AI mandate nobody understands our code by zealous1 on Tuesday November 10, 2026 @04:19PM (#50446442)
It's worth the skill up exp and learning what models need to get better at so you know when and how to pounce. I've been all-in AI coding since Sonnet 3.5 - back then that meant more time reviewing/fixing code than it would have taken to write it myself.

But now having a few thousand hours experience building nontrivial systems through AI intermediation was worth it.