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Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by echelon on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @07:39AM (#50351295)
It it wasn't for competing models, this would all make sense.

If this was just OpenAI and Anthropic, this money would represent all of your salaries being soaked up and your job functions being privately consumed by two companies.

Except there's tons of competition and no moat. The math problems are just a distraction from that.

Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by glimshe on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @07:48AM (#50351380)
It's not the exact same. People aren't giving Anthropic billions because they are idiots or dislike the Chinese.

I don't disagree that Anthropic has no long term moat but they have been a LOT better than the Chinese models since the beginning.

As programmers, we're natural optimizers. And we frequently deliver solutions that aren't always the best, but just "good enough".

Guess what, the Chinese models, Mistral, Argon etc, aren't "good enough" for a lot of tasks. That's why people pay for Claude.

Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by echelon on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @07:53AM (#50351420)
The delta between "good enough" and "great" is shrinking.
Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by hdgvhicv on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @08:08AM (#50351536)
As programmers we don’t make the decisions. If anthropic allows the c suite to fire 1000 people but China only 900 people, then anthropic can only coat 10% more than China to be worthwhile.
Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by etempleton on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @08:24AM (#50351686)
It isn’t just the Chinese models, though. Google Carbon just came out and from what I have heard is very competitive in direct comparisons and cheaper. Then there is Grok, Muse, etc. I feel fairly confident that there is not enough room for all of these to be successful businesses. Maybe enough room for two at the current valuations, but Google can just lurk in the background forever. Open AI and Anthropic don’t have that luxury. The minute they falter, for even a short period it is pretty much over.
Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by irthomasthomas on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @08:31AM (#50351760)
Carbon isn't out yet.
Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by pjjpo on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @08:54AM (#50351998)
And when it is it will still get stuck in loops.
Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by disgruntledphd2 on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @09:41AM (#50352586)
Argon is definitely competitive (used it over the past week or so).

It's pretty slow, but comprehensive. Caught a bunch of stuff that GLM-5.3 flash (which is incredible value) missed, and gave me good solutions for some irritating issues.

It's very slow (even by frontier standards), but it's hard for me to believe that Anthropic have much of a moat.

I mean, I like talking to Claude more than basically every other model (the open models are much more entertaining though, especially their thinking) but that doesn't feel like it warrants their valuation.

If they can successfully move towards owning their compute, and optimise it massively then they might do well, but it's a risky proposition from my perspective.

Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by irthomasthomas on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @08:30AM (#50351756)
Can you share any example prompts where Chinese models aren't good enough?
Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by jeswin on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @08:47AM (#50351934)
I've tried Chinese models extensively over the last 1 year I've been working full-time on this project [1]. They're borderline useless. 90%+ of my code is written by Codex, and perhaps <10% by Claude and myself.

> Can you share any example prompts where Chinese models aren't good enough?

Nobody is prompting any more, it's more planning, automation, guardrails and reviews. For example, if your tests report that there's a 40% slow down in a particular type of analysis, you have to review possible causes, and approve a plan involving multiple agents to find solutions that won't break 50k tests. And that solution itself is a small part of the work that gets planned in a day.

Codex and Claude are the only tools that work for me, inspite of testing almost everything out there to save costs.

[1]: https://github.com/orgs/tsoniclang/repositories

Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by irthomasthomas on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @09:56AM (#50352799)
You can't use LLMs without prompting them. But, ok, you use codex and it doesnt feel like you prompt them much, but do you have an example commit from codex which you are sure can't be matched by Chinese models?
Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by ipaddr on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @08:55AM (#50352007)
Happened to me yesterday. Create this spec targeting this language and version. It creates it using a higher version.
Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by reacharavindh on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @09:18AM (#50352304)
It isn’t just winner takes all anymore(hasn’t been for years?)… I don’t think any reasonable consumer/company would hitch their wagon to one AI provider unless they came with an order of magnitude better quality at competitive costs.. For example, we use Claude Opus 5.5 for particular tasks that justifies its cost, but use self-hosted(not really… hosted on AWS Bedrock, but the point applies in spirit) cheaper models from Anthropic’s competitors and even open weight models for specialized tasks that don’t need the frontier model. Even if Anthropic pulls a huge lead against their competitors, there is no reality where the whole world sticks to Anthropic and shuns cheaper models. This is why their absurd valuation sucks. At reasonable valuation, they are quite a bet because Opus 5.5 is still a great workhorse as of today.
Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by thisIsFiner on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @09:43AM (#50352612)
> People aren't giving Anthropic billions because they are idiots or dislike the Chinese.

Maybe this describes Anthropic people mostly

I would not assume this represents their investors

Kevin O'Leary has specifically mentioned kicking China's ass wrt AI race

There is likely a ton of xenophobia and racism motivating a lot of stupid investment within the US

Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by ggregoire on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @09:44AM (#50352627)
I'm sure a lot of people tried 1 model/harness and stuck with it without really comparing (same way I haven't changed my IDE and my terminal for the past 10 years), and eventually will try a Chinese model and will be blown away.

I was discussing with a coworker yesterday who pays $200/month for cursor, has never tried any other harness and mostly use grok, in rare occasions opus 5.5 ("opus thinks too much"). He's always out of tokens on the 15th of the month. I told him I exclusively use DS 4.1 flash with opencode, spend like 150M tokens a day (including cache) and it oneshots all my tasks. I barely reach 20% of my $10 sub at the end of the month. He told me "bullshit"…

Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by alexjplant on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @09:50AM (#50352706)
[delayed]
Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by cyanydeez on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @08:03AM (#50351502)
ok, but the valid business prop is to be a dependent on anthropic, indistinguishable from just being a second class citizen, since your entire networth can't be extracted from anthropic.

Go nuts with it, but we're at the SciFi dystopia test with: how do mega corporations even form? Well, this is certainly the plausible reality, they just start aggregating random income streams because their product is essentially the only thing that makes the business profitable. Without it, it can't compete.

Hopefully this sounds skeptical, but I don't see how you can have an independent business and be entirely dependent on third party for your operations.

Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by sandworm101 on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @08:10AM (#50351552)
>> I don't see how you can have an independent business and be entirely dependent on third party for your operations

Like a lumber mill that buys logs from a logging company? Who subcontracts to individual fallers? Who buy their chainsaws from a chainsaw company, their fuel from a petrochemical company? No business isn't entirely dependent on third parties. That's what it means to exist in a healthy economy.

A "farm-to-table" megacorp that owns everything from the source of every raw material through to the finished product is a nightmare, an entity that needs to be reigned in and broken up. Capitalism is a competitive game, but a game that can never be allowed to end.

Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by versteegen on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @08:51AM (#50351964)
But what about the digital economy? It's interesting that the length of the supply chain for digital goods and knowledge work is nothing like physical goods. Google, Microsoft, and Apple are end to end, don't have to depend on any other software company if they don't want to (until LLMs, anyway, except Google).
Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by badpun on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @09:52AM (#50352747)
What is a "digital economy"? There is only one economy as far as I know. Division of company inputs into software and non-software is arbitrary and has no merit as far as I can see.
Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by sandworm101 on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @10:41AM (#50353375)
>> don't have to depend on any other software company if they don't want to.

I am rather sure that Google is heavily reliant on Microsoft and Apple to produce the operating systems used on devices that are in turn used to view Google's ads. And Microsoft is heavily reliant on hardware manufacturers (firmware is also software) to make the machines that Windows lives inside. And Apple is reliant upon a thousand and one companies that enable the innumerable mobile networks, which include many layers of non-apple software.

Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by davemp on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @08:56AM (#50352034)
The difference is that the lumber mill isn't giving the logging company all the information required to run a lumber mill and the logging company isn't turning around and selling said information to anyone for $200/mo.
Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by bluefirebrand on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @08:26AM (#50351708)
> I don't see how you can have an independent business and be entirely dependent on third party for your operations

This isn't new though. A ton of software companies are already completely dependent on AWS or Azure or whatever.

Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by solyin on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @08:36AM (#50351825)
> I don't see how you can have an independent business and be entirely dependent on third party for your operations.

All businesses are reliant on multiple third parties doing their thing in order for the business to be viable. A lot of companies exist at the whims of Amazon or Walmart.

Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by cyanydeez on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @09:35AM (#50352500)
Not intellectually.
Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by intrasight on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @08:36AM (#50351828)
There is no such thing as an "independent company". They are all dependent on the federal government to protect them from the marauding herds.
Re:Anthropic IPO filing: $1.7B quarterly payroll, about $107... by SahAssar on Tuesday November 03, 2026 @10:37AM (#50353330)
Except PMCs.