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Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by lmf4lol on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @02:14PM (#48574370)
where to?
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by ArmadilloGang on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @02:34PM (#48574689)
My family is looking at Missouri to Spain.

Why Spain: Expat communities, cost of living, friendly visa options, beautiful climate.

Why leave: Sick of U.S. politics and the way it directly and indirectly affects us and how difficult it is to escape from it - it’s a major point of conversations with family and friends, it’s on the local radio, local subreddit, local social media pages, etc.

Also, I have over $7k in personal medical costs annually (out of pocket). That’s just me, not my family cumulatively. For Ostomy supplies, iron infusions, and more.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by simojo on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @02:50PM (#48574939)
From what I understand, Spain has their own set of politics worth losing sleep over; perhaps as an expat you won't be as attached though.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by crystal_revenge on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @03:29PM (#48575554)
Most American ex-pats don't really understand that the thing that makes ex-pat life so attractive is that, for most of people's lives, being American in a foreign country has traditionally conferred a wide range of benefits (this is most clearly exemplified by the way American's living in a foreign country refer to themselves as "ex-pats" not "immigrants"). The ex-pat solution assumes American exceptionalism as it's foundation.

Historically American's have benefited from income asymmetry and a fairly wide-spread desire by foreign nations not to cause too much legal trouble for US nationals abroad.

I have quite a few friends that do live, quite happily, abroad. But the common pattern for them is a.) fluency in the native language b.) historical association with the country c.) fairly large cash reserves so they can ignore any economic problems these countries are facing.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by jorblumesea on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @04:22PM (#48576302)
expat is usually synonymous with fire/retire early. most people move to spain or portugal and see their purchasing power multiply.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by Xixi on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @07:17PM (#48578358)
That sounds more like FIRE / geographic arbitrage than expat in the traditional sense.

What people often mean by a "true expat" is something completely different: someone sent abroad by their employer, usually with a generous expatriate package (home-country salary, local allowances, housing, private schooling for children, etc.)

More broadly, though, expatriate simply means someone living outside their native country. Ex means "out of", and patria means "native country" or "homeland". It's that simple.

So the word itself isn't limited to wealthy retirees or corporate transfers. All immigrants are expatriates, although not every expatriate is necessarily an immigrant.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by titanomachy on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @05:49PM (#48577378)
Americans didn’t invent the term or the concept of “expat”, colonial Europeans have been doing it in Africa and Asia for centuries.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by tbrownaw on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @08:08PM (#48578788)
I don't see the parent comment saying that we did invent it.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by Quekid5 on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @07:21PM (#48578398)
*Brits

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, my European nation did a lot of bad shit, but don't put the idea of an "expat" on us.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by titanomachy on Monday June 22, 2026 @07:25AM (#48628719)
A million French moved to Algeria
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by Aurornis on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @03:35PM (#48575652)
Most places have their own politics. What differs is how often they come up. As a foreigner you're usually spared the involvement in those discussions because people think you're not interested and don't want your outsider opinion anyway.

People also embed themselves in different communities when they move anywhere, even to a different city or state in the same country. It's a clean reset.

It doesn't always last forever. I know several people who tried to move somewhere, including internationally, when politics got heated in 2016. Most of them came back eventually with a realization that politics is everywhere, it's just a matter of how much you're embedded into the places it's discussed.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by rwyinuse on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @04:22PM (#48576294)
Politics is everywhere, but the state of US politics today is exceptionally bad by Western world standards. I hate the government in my country, but their corruption and incompetence is nothing compared to the Trump administration.

In that sense most EU countries are a positive upgrade.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by WarmWash on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @03:06PM (#48575205)
Apart from being the nexus of the current hot button issue - immigrants and housing costs.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by homerowilson on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @03:17PM (#48575384)
I (American) worked in Spain (Cáceres, Extremadura) ~2015-2017 in tech. It was a wonderful experience. Extremely talented, hard-working, and friendly co-workers. Great health-care and education systems. I think since then rising housing prices partially due to migration have become an issue, but it's a really, really nice place.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by pvaldes on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @04:10PM (#48576147)
To add context Extremadura is a member of the "poor" Spain. To US people could be useful to think on a sort of New Mexico.

Pros: Great food, interesting cultural past, only one language to deal with and not complicated accents to grasp (more important that most people think), gorgeous wild areas, uncomplicated people, maybe a little on the introverted side at first, but solid gold after a while.

Cons: Risk of poverty sadly high, bigger than many US states (but with better government support and healthcare). Harsh continental climate very hot and very cold. Not for everybody (but US has plenty of places with similar or worse weather). The trains and communication roads are also under-average for the country and many people don't really speak English.

In many of the non highly touristic places you can live well if you can adapt to the cons. Housing prices are lower, life expenses cheaper and buying a house should be affordable with a decent job (Don't try this in Barcelona or Madrid). Portugal is close, and is even cheaper, to the point of some people living there and working in Spain. To support the same standard of living in Barcelona, Valencia or Madrid you need to plan in advance, to stomach the stress that unavoidably come with big cities, and earn much more.

In Spain if you can speak English well you will be seen yet as a big researcher.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by hylaride on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @05:08PM (#48576940)
More pro: Spain may be one of the best places in Europe to raise kids (culturally, especially), though a good chunk of the country has emptied out of its young people - so it can vary by region. It's a shame that their birth rate has gotten so low. Crime overall is very low, especially if you're not tied directly to it.

More cons: You will eventually have to shift to a very different customer service climate and hours. The development levels can vary quite a bit, especially "modern" infrastructure like internet outside of the major cities (maybe that's gotten better in the last 5 years). Bureaucracy of some institutions (government/finance) can be extremely frustrating.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by KAMSPioneer on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @06:42PM (#48578020)
Regarding internet infrastructure, the fiber optic network seems to be quite robust these days. There are still places where it isn't available, but compared to e.g. the US it's another world entirely. Even small cities typically offer 1 or sometimes 10 Gbps hookups in many areas.

Regarding bureaucracy I'm afraid that there has been no such progress. Extremely frustrating that even when I do everything right, I get told to come back another day for my trámite because they just...haven't done it! Sorry!

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by dnautics on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @04:36PM (#48576491)
gotta be ready for the crazy heat in the summers, they don't call it extremadura for nothing. unironically best lodging is rooms that were dungeons in the castle.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by KAMSPioneer on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @06:30PM (#48577864)
Also American, and I'm interested why you praise the education system. I have a child who will be entering the Andalusian system at some point and although it seems better than my Oklahoman system, that is, uh...damning with faint praise.

Some of my non-Spanish European colleagues also have commented that the education system is kind of "good not great" especially compared with other Western/Central European countries. However, I understand the Spanish system to be somewhat federated; perhaps the difference between Extremadura and Andalusia would explain the difference in opinion.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by com2kid on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @10:47PM (#48580085)
America just ended a nearly 2 decade experience of failing to teach kids how to read English due to a NZ teacher scamming the English speaking world.

So doing better than that isn't too hard.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by turtlesdown11 on Thursday June 18, 2026 @08:19AM (#48584217)
and we've already moved on to the next snake oil - letting LLMs teach our kids!
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by geerlingguy on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @04:30PM (#48576407)
"The grass is always greener", "the enemy you know", etc. etc.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by rbtprograms on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @04:26PM (#48576350)
americans pretending they aren't immigrants by using the term expat always cracks me up
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by shermantanktop on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @05:10PM (#48576972)
I guess I think of "expat" as a possibly-temporary state where full assimilation is not the goal. American expats also pay American taxes unless they give up US citizenship.

Technically of course you are right.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by adev_ on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @05:29PM (#48577176)
> American expats also pay American taxes unless they give up US citizenship.

Practically, they barely pay anything significant.

The lower net salary in Europe / Asia associated with rather high local tax means that most Americans citizens oversea barely own anything significant back to the state.

However it does remain an annoyance to fill the tax declaration every year: I know several American who chose to give up their citizenahip just to avoid this specific issue.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by eblume on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @05:49PM (#48577373)
I'm not sure I follow. I am a US citizen and have never lived abroad, but my understanding is that US Citizens living abroad must still pay the US a full federal income tax. It's graduated/progressive, of course, so the actual percentage may vary, but it should probably be between 15% and 40% of income. Not what I would call small. I don't think they can deduct local taxes, can they?
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by bnm04 on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @06:08PM (#48577620)
Many countries have tax treaties with the US, and there’s also the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE), which excludes up to 132.9k of foreign income; so many US citizens abroad will indeed pay no US income taxes.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by jandrewrogers on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @10:06PM (#48579696)
That is mostly only true if you have no significant investments. If you have investments, the tax situation is not good as an American even under tax treaties.

If you are normal wage slave with limited savings then yes the exclusions mostly work.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by Rudybega on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @06:07PM (#48577603)
There's a huge exclusion.

The 2026 Foreign Earned Income Exclusion (FEIE) allows qualifying U.S. expats to exclude up to $132,900 of foreign-earned income from their U.S. federal income taxes. Married couples can exclude up to $265,800 if both spouses work abroad and each meets the eligibility requirements.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by eblume on Thursday June 18, 2026 @09:57AM (#48585447)
Thanks! I did not know that. That changes a lot.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by jjtheblunt on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @06:20PM (#48577765)
if you're living where you were born, how can you be an expat?
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by jandrewrogers on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @10:02PM (#48579669)
The terms "expat" and "immigrant" are not synonyms. There is a material semantic distinction in American English.

Most Americans that live overseas tend to be expats rather than immigrants. Those two terms don't convey the same meaning.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by kelvinjps10 on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @11:50PM (#48580589)
a person who temporarily or permanently lives and works in a country other than their native country. I mean, some Mexicans and other latin americans go to the US to make money and buy a home back in their countries. And still by they're not called expats?
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by schnitzelstoat on Thursday June 18, 2026 @04:40AM (#48582562)
For me, expat implies a temporary stay, often tied to your job.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by rbtprograms on Thursday June 18, 2026 @01:01AM (#48581014)
whatever makes Americans feel better about being immigrants or migrant workers is fine by me
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by whatshisface on Thursday June 18, 2026 @02:47AM (#48581672)
Expats have to pay taxes in their home country. The US is very difficult to temporarily not be in.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by AlexeyBelov on Friday June 19, 2026 @05:59AM (#48596806)
It's not fine by you, since you brought attention to it.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by anjel on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @10:30PM (#48579900)
americans pretending they aren't refugees by using the term expat is almost too ironic.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by lbrito on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @05:13PM (#48577006)
Housing is really expensive in Spain and Portugal right now. I live in BC and mid/small cities there are actually more expensive than here
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by asdff on Thursday June 18, 2026 @01:18AM (#48581129)
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by schnitzelstoat on Thursday June 18, 2026 @04:46AM (#48582617)
That must be outside of Valencia city at that price. And anywhere near Madrid or Barcelona (where most of the good jobs are), forget it.

It'll be 350k for a 100m2 apartment or even more expensive in the popular neighbourhoods.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by asdff on Thursday June 18, 2026 @01:56PM (#48589001)
Op said it's 20 mins by car to the city center.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by lbrito on Thursday June 18, 2026 @02:35PM (#48589554)
That is far by European standards. Op is Spanish.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by asdff on Thursday June 18, 2026 @07:04PM (#48592798)
20 minutes is 20 minutes whether you are american or spanish.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by lbrito on Thursday June 18, 2026 @11:30AM (#48586937)
Sure, you can find something with various budgets. As other said, that house is far away from the city centre (the reddit OP says so in the thread). You'll also probably need to spend a lot on upkeep and retrofits with buildings this old.

Something in the city centre is more like 4800 euro/sqmt (https://www.idealista.com/sala-de-prensa/informes-precio-viv...).

Just browse idealista in the city you want and you'll see its not such a bargain as people might think. Mid-sized cities I've checked (Vigo, Valencia, Granada) all have similar prices, around 400k for a 2-3 bed older apartment, or twice as much for a newer one.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by asdff on Thursday June 18, 2026 @01:55PM (#48588991)
Who cares if it is outside the city center? Looks like it is plenty urban. Even better, more real businesses priced towards locals paying 120k for an entire building, and no seasonal tourist businesses taking up space in the market priced for whoever can afford a four figure vacation to Valencia. Besides, OP said it was 20 mins by car to the city center. That seems perfectly reasonable in the american frame of reference towards distances to points of interest. The place looks turnkey too. Unfinished attic is pretty typical even in the US.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by lbrito on Thursday June 18, 2026 @02:29PM (#48589476)
If it looks like a good deal to you, by all means, hasta luego. I was just saying that specific Reddit post is not really a good average case for housing. Check idealista and see the average homes there first.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by saturn8601 on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @05:50PM (#48577394)
Man Spain is mentioned as a top destination with expat influencers, youtubers and now even on hn. I get the feeling that something is going to crack at some point. You must be pricing out locals and they can't be happy about that.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by indoorfish on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @06:15PM (#48577698)
Sounds like the locals are just racist then?
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by megous on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @06:47PM (#48578071)
Being a rich fuck used to 5x+ the local median income is not a "race". So it can't be racism.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by AnimalMuppet on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @06:57PM (#48578179)
I suspect that indoorfish's point is that, in the US, when similar situations happen, and get similar reactions, then accusations of racism fly.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by jasonfarnon on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @07:28PM (#48578464)
people in the US complaining about gentrification get called racist?
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by defrost on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @07:30PM (#48578489)
People in the US stating that black lives matter get called racist. So, yes.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by fooqux on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @08:54PM (#48579158)
That topic at least involves matters of race though? Not saying you're wrong, just that it's perhaps not the best counter-argument.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by defrost on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @09:05PM (#48579242)
The point is that people in the US absolutely do get called racist all the time for all manner of things.

The question was asked if some US person might be called racist for having an opinion about gentrification that seemingly has little to do with race, and the answer is yes, yes they have been.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by sailfast on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @09:23PM (#48579354)
No, not generally.

That said, there can be some "Oh yeah - well if you're insinuating that white people are displacing black people then YOU are the racist" which is just... not the same thing. One view of the world may incorporate a significant accommodation and acknowledgement of historical discrimination, enslavement, red-lining, you name it. The other is... technically correct I suppose, but complete horseshit on the merits until we start to see significant, systemic harm going the other direction as a result of race.

But that's just, like, my opinion man.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by pvaldes on Thursday June 18, 2026 @03:50AM (#48582189)
Spain has its own load of problems, like any other place. Big cities have lowered their quality of life a lot since the 2008 crisis.

Science is massively underfunded respect to what US was enjoying. Expect cuts in your salary. Physicians earn much, much, less, but students can follow public university studies without being put a crushing debt load around their necks.

Science is also being invaded lately with political and bureaucratic BS. Universities have less resources and are always scammed in the ranks that benefit Asian and US universities.

We expect one month of Holidays each year, by law, or to be compensated for it if we agree to spend this time working. Most researchers volunteer to work extra hours or weekends if needed to finish the experiments.

About cultural differences. There are not "white" people and "hispanic" people in Spain. Is either the same thing, or it does not really matter.

"Negro" means "black", and is just a color. Some people are racist, specially out of the big cities, and even more are classist but if you are black and people describe you as a man negro or a woman negra they don't mean to insult you, they are just describing you.

You are either Spanish, or foreign. You will be always be the "moroccan" or the "gringo" but not the "black" or the "white". Europeans had mixed their bloods for ages and people here consider themselves as much "white" than you (if not more) and will find offensive the distinction.

As long as you act as a reasonably civilized person, only the extreme right idiots will care about your tan. Avoid this European MAGA like the dangerous plague that they are.

In restaurants, you need to call the waiter and say what you want. If you want the bill, you need to ask politely for the bill. Don't wait to be noticed or you will wait forever. You will not be chased off the table normally, that would be rude.

You will receive the amount of food expected traditionally in the area (not the humongous portions normal in US unless you visit the North).

Tips are fully voluntary. Unless you go to a very exclusive place you should tip between 0 and 2 dollars and don't need to argue why. (Forget about that X% of the service. We hate going out and being forced to do math).

People will benefit also of the environmental regulation. I assume that a big chunk of the morbid obesity epidemics in US came from unregulated contamination.

In some small populations near mountains and forests, wildfire crime is a recurrent problem. If there are cows or sheep roaming wild in the area, expect wildfire mafias. Assure to remove any flammable materials near your house and to memorize your escape route.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by thorin on Thursday June 18, 2026 @10:06AM (#48585588)
Spain is a pretty big country in terms of space. It's been full of British expats for years a lot of whom had to leave due to Brexit so can probably stand to have a few more influencers move over.
Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by tick_tock_tick on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @08:40PM (#48579043)
> Why leave: Sick of U.S. politics and the way it directly and indirectly affects us and how difficult it is to escape from it - it’s a major point of conversations with family and friends, it’s on the local radio, local subreddit, local social media pages, etc.

I mean so you'll move to Spain and just be horrible ignorant of any issues facing the local population, living in a financial bubble where you've earned significantly move then the them and can ignore any political issues locally.

Sure it's "freeing" to just move and stop caring about "politics" and use money to smooth over or move again if anything slightly bothers you.

Re:U.S. Science Is in Chaos by noisy_boy on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @08:51PM (#48579138)
What are you talking about? They will move to Spain and be financially well off means they will be ignorant of local issues and live in a bubble? How did you make that stretch? Sure they may not be very political but that doesn't equate to living in a bubble. People choose to engage with politics at varying degrees, as is their right.

Isn't it enough to not having to look over your shoulder fearing you will be a statistic in the long list of atrocities being committed by this government? Having a good quality of life is something to be guilty about?!