Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by dwa3592 on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @12:01PM
(#48572354)
Why is this data even being allowed to sell? Isn't this private data? Okay, i understand selling users data is pretty common here but i thought it was limited to "someone liking icecream or someone liking ford better than honda". but legally selling tax identifiers seems too much!
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by MikePlacid on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @12:21PM
(#48572675)
Could not gisagree more. Nobody can harm me much by knowing my ITIN. But government surely can torture me in prison by depriving me of my favorite ice cream brand. I have a right to keep it private!
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by dkobia on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @12:04PM
(#48572404)
The open secret here is that we have a system that collects billions (~$100 billion annually[1]) in unclaimable taxes while keeping the labor force just vulnerable enough to stay cheap. That said, ICE's actions seem like self sabotage.
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by SilasX on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @11:32AM
(#48571903)
I mean, this has long been a loophole in US law. Generally, you can't be compelled to testify against yourself (5th Amendment). But when it comes to taxes:
1) You have to declare all income, even from illegal activities.
2) The declarations can be used against you in court (IIUIC with the caveat that they need an independent reason to get a warrant for those tax records).
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by fhdkweig on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @11:35AM
(#48571919)
The article says they were already getting this information directly from the IRS until a court order shut it down. It is worthwhile to note that in the past the IRS stayed out of police investigations so that even if criminals were doing criminal things to make money, it didn't discourage them from paying taxes on it.
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by guywithahat on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @12:17PM
(#48572597)
I would disagree with that premise, famously the FBI has used unpaid taxes to after a number of high profile criminals, most famously Al Capone but more frequently its gang members or fraud (like some of the Somali fraud cases in Minnesota). I believe they like to make your claim to encourage paying taxes, but practically they work together frequently. Crime shouldn't suddenly be ok if you pay taxes on it
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by yabones on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @11:41AM
(#48572031)
While there might be some benefit, most of them are snakeoil. Effectively they're just sending polite emails to "people search" websites to remove you from search results. The real, very harmful, data brokers are background check systems (LexisNexis), credit bureaus (Equifax), and insurance industry registries, which there is effectively no way to opt-out short of faking your death.
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by Cider9986 on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @12:10PM
(#48572498)
Harm depends on your threat model. For a streamer wanting to avoid being swatted then the typical data broker removal service could be quite helpful. I agree a big part of the problem is lack of understanding that the removal services only work at one layer.
There's probably even more than these, but here are some from the video: Healthcare data brokers, fraud data brokers, financial data brokers, marketing data brokers, people search data brokers.
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by Cider9986 on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @12:23PM
(#48572701)
Manually opting out is probably the most effective, but obviously it's manual. Privacy guides recommends EasyOptOuts as the only paid service and manual and Google's tool for free methods.
It's a paid service, they track data brokers datasets (I assume they just act as a buyer for as many as they can) and then manually request your removal from all of them, and then aggressively follow up and chase it for you. Interesting business model, even if it's annoying that the world means you need it.
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by IAmBroom on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @03:45PM
(#48575832)
You should precede those verbs with "they claim that they".
"Aggressively follow up" is a completely meaningless phrase. It could just mean they put an "angry face" emoji in their email. You might disagree, but courts would likely judge it an irrelevant phrase.
In short: there's No Way to scrub yourself off the web, and no one who wants to abuse information that should remain private will ever respect a take-down request, without the menace of fines and prison.
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by pimterry on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @05:06PM
(#48576913)
I mean sure, I'm not intending this to be quoted in a court, honestly I would say all my online comments are irrelevant phrases!
That said - it is their business, they're broadly well reviewed, and they're clearly incentivised to give scrubbing your data out a good go.
More generally, if you're in a jurisdiction with GDPR-like rules (which is a lot of the world nowadays) the brokers themselves have formal policies & tools for removing your data and chasing people manually myself occasionally I've found it quite effective.
You're certainly not going to get anything removed from any three-letter agencies or purely malicious people. Most of the discussion here though is around data brokers, who are generally large serious businesses who will at least follow the letter of the law. You've got pretty good odds of getting your data removed from any non-trivial businesses, if you follow their carefully hidden data collection policy links and then quote your local legislation and their privacy team in a polite but firm (and repetitive) way.
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by Cider9986 on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @11:53AM
(#48572212)
It might not be the answer you're looking for, but a lot of data is free on ShinyHunters' website[1] including whether other celebrities are considered "Low Risk" or "High Risk" by Madison Square Gardens security
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by Simulacra on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @11:02AM
(#48571502)
So much is available via the data brokers, for companies, governments, really anyone. Maybe this will lead to greater privacy across the board against these brokers.
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by claaams on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @11:39AM
(#48571995)
It's been like this for a long time and nothing has changed. In fact I would argue that consumer and citizen privacy has gotten much, much worse. It is extremely wishful thinking (in typical hackernews commenter fashion) that the "free" market will generate consumer protections.
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by shevy-java on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @11:23AM
(#48571762)
ICE reminds me of what I read about the 1930s era - but it is really stupid on top of that. So basically this then screams of a money machinery for a few. Taxpayers money goes into private pockets here, all under the disguise of "EVIL MIGRANTS".
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by msie on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @11:18AM
(#48571690)
ICE funding was boosted by billions of dollars. The supposed loss of jobs and services by illegal immigrants is easily surpassed by governmental waste.
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by estearum on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @11:16AM
(#48571672)
We already have a tool for dealing with this as it pertains to cell tower data.
SCOTUS determined that merely having a cellphone, which is a modern necessity, creates too much privately held data that the telcos shouldn't be allowed, even when they want to, to hand it over to the government without a warrant.
Basically all we have to do is expand the types of data that land in this zone.
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by wat10000 on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @11:24AM
(#48571785)
I don't think they mean "cannot do" as in "don't have the capability." But rather "cannot do" as in "are not allowed to do." If the government can't (is not allowed to) surveil me without a warrant, it shouldn't be able to (be allowed to) buy surveillance of me from a private party either.
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by dheera on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @11:14AM
(#48571648)
Not a bad thing at all.
When the government buys a piece of steel, a chunk of that is property taxes of the owner of the factory building, a huge chunk of that is business taxes, a huge chunk of that is income taxes of the workers that work there.
If the government can own that infrastructure as a fully nonprofit entity that pays zero taxes, the government can buy the steel for $50 instead of $100. That means our income taxes can also be much lower, because the government can be more efficient.
Right now a huge chunk of the taxes you pay to the government go toward paying second-order taxes.
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by pavel_lishin on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @11:16AM
(#48571670)
Would the government be buying that steel, if they own the infrastructure for it? When I grab a cucumber from my garden, I'm not exactly paying myself for it.
And the property, business and income taxes still need to get paid.
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by dheera on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @11:17AM
(#48571684)
That's the point. Instead of buying it, they can just have it. By $50 I meant that they're buying everything at-cost internally. Only $50 of taxpayer money is needed to procure that steel, instead of $100.
> And the property, business and income taxes still need to get paid.
Not if the government owns it and they decide it's tax exempt. They can also build it on government land, and decide that government land is property tax free.
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by ajju on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @11:35AM
(#48571930)
Buying state owned enterprises and running them more efficiently to double their valuation (or more) has been a reliably profitable business in many countries. This suggests to me that government bureaucracy, lack of accountability etc. could result in “at cost” trending to $100 or more if government buys private companies, or starting close to $100 if government starts a new one.
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by SilverElfin on Thursday June 18, 2026 @02:47AM
(#48581673)
I meant that they can’t circumvent legal limitations on the government by simply making a private party do those same things the government is prevented from doing. Buying data from private companies is one such issue.
Re:ICE Appears to Be Buying Immigrants' Tax Identifiers from...
by Cider9986 on Wednesday June 17, 2026 @12:25PM
(#48572723)
This is the bill that would stop this from happening, conveniently the rep who proposed it was voted out in the republican primary by a 10% margin, rip: https://www.surveillanceaccountability.com/
https://epic.org/issues/consumer-privacy/data-brokers/
Consumers are the product.
[1] https://itep.org/undocumented-immigrants-taxes-2024/
1) You have to declare all income, even from illegal activities.
2) The declarations can be used against you in court (IIUIC with the caveat that they need an independent reason to get a warrant for those tax records).
Are the originators of these investigations the same? Might that matter?
> Crime shouldn't suddenly be ok if you pay taxes on it
Cool. Nobody is making that argument.
There's probably even more than these, but here are some from the video: Healthcare data brokers, fraud data brokers, financial data brokers, marketing data brokers, people search data brokers.
Good video explaining the situation with data brokers and the removal services: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iX3JT6q3AxA
Once collected why would a data broker want to purge your record?
There is no escape.
Yea sure. If it helps you sleep better. It is the law.
In reality the data is already 'grey market' so I doubt the law matters to them.
Disappear and new data broker sets up shop. You think these people are regulated? I bet they swap datasets like Pokemon.
https://www.privacyguides.org/en/data-broker-removals
It's a paid service, they track data brokers datasets (I assume they just act as a buyer for as many as they can) and then manually request your removal from all of them, and then aggressively follow up and chase it for you. Interesting business model, even if it's annoying that the world means you need it.
"Aggressively follow up" is a completely meaningless phrase. It could just mean they put an "angry face" emoji in their email. You might disagree, but courts would likely judge it an irrelevant phrase.
In short: there's No Way to scrub yourself off the web, and no one who wants to abuse information that should remain private will ever respect a take-down request, without the menace of fines and prison.
That said - it is their business, they're broadly well reviewed, and they're clearly incentivised to give scrubbing your data out a good go.
More generally, if you're in a jurisdiction with GDPR-like rules (which is a lot of the world nowadays) the brokers themselves have formal policies & tools for removing your data and chasing people manually myself occasionally I've found it quite effective.
You're certainly not going to get anything removed from any three-letter agencies or purely malicious people. Most of the discussion here though is around data brokers, who are generally large serious businesses who will at least follow the letter of the law. You've got pretty good odds of getting your data removed from any non-trivial businesses, if you follow their carefully hidden data collection policy links and then quote your local legislation and their privacy team in a polite but firm (and repetitive) way.
https://nooneshappy.com/article/data-brokers-unregulated-for...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=ShinyHunters&oldi...
[2] https://www.404media.co/hackers-publish-knicks-and-madison-s...
No one voted for it but here we are. Flock on every strategic corner.
SCOTUS determined that merely having a cellphone, which is a modern necessity, creates too much privately held data that the telcos shouldn't be allowed, even when they want to, to hand it over to the government without a warrant.
Basically all we have to do is expand the types of data that land in this zone.
When the government buys a piece of steel, a chunk of that is property taxes of the owner of the factory building, a huge chunk of that is business taxes, a huge chunk of that is income taxes of the workers that work there.
If the government can own that infrastructure as a fully nonprofit entity that pays zero taxes, the government can buy the steel for $50 instead of $100. That means our income taxes can also be much lower, because the government can be more efficient.
Right now a huge chunk of the taxes you pay to the government go toward paying second-order taxes.
And also lose $50 of tax revenue. I do not see how the government is any better off here.
And the property, business and income taxes still need to get paid.
> And the property, business and income taxes still need to get paid.
Not if the government owns it and they decide it's tax exempt. They can also build it on government land, and decide that government land is property tax free.