News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by giancarlostoro on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @09:32AM (#48207467)
It would have been the world we live in if China wasn't involved in so much corporate espionage. I don't even feel comfortable using their open weight models on anything my employer makes, the only time I use Qwen is for greenfield "how good is this?" type of projects, but otherwise, how do I trust that it wont mysteriously hallucinate phoning home?

On the other hand, there's other models where the source is 100% open, the training data is known, and people have reproduced the same model from scratch, so while those trail behind, there's definitely an effort to make models more open and capable.

Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by deaux on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @10:38AM (#48208625)
The US has for decades been engaged in mass dumping of their products to establish monopolies all over the world, and punishing anyone who dares try do anything about it. This isn't better than corporate espionage.
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by eloisant on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @09:48AM (#48207758)
I agree, but the same goes for the US. Remember Echelon.
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by stickfigure on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @10:00AM (#48207955)
It's highly improbable that the US government has a secret team inside Anthropic and OpenAI manipulating their training regimen. For better or worse, these companies are filled with ideologues and something that invasive would trigger an army of whistleblowers (despite legal consequences).
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by throwaw12 on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @11:56AM (#48209827)
> secret team inside Anthropic and OpenAI manipulating their training regimen

You don't need a secret team to manipulate whats coming from them: https://responsiblestatecraft.org/israel-chatgpt/

Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by booty on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @10:58AM (#48208940)

    It's highly improbable that the US government has a secret team inside Anthropic and OpenAI manipulating their training regimen.
Two thoughts.

One: it would be relatively technically trivial for $GOVERNMENT_AGENCY to just monitor all the prompts + context we send over the wire to OpenAI/Anthropic/etc. That's a goldmine of sensitive personal and corporate data, no secret team needed (although, the LLM providers obviously would need to cooperate)

Two: Rather than secret infiltration teams influencing model training I think what's more likely on the training side of things is simply self-censoring by the LLM providers, so that they don't risk angering the government.

I highly doubt that China has government interlopers, secret or otherwise, inside Qwen's training team. Nonetheless, "sensitive" issues like Tiananmen Square are censored. I would imagine that much/most such censorship in China is self-censorship that doesn't leave a legal/paper trail. That's what we're in danger of seeing (more of) in America IMO.

Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by Barbing on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @11:34AM (#48209457)
> relatively technically trivial for $GOVERNMENT_AGENCY to just monitor all the prompts + context we send

I take this for granted given Room 641A https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_641A

Thus, I’ve pondered whether anything they’ve learned has changed the world / had a big impact (like on their understanding of human psychology, perhaps per region). They’ve heard phone calls, they’ve read emails, diaries get brought to court… but these are systems that would be used like diaries but also prompt users for more and more.

Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by SoMomentary on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @01:21PM (#48211032)
Having seen all the AI interactions that you can get through clickstream data I have no doubt that $GOVERNMENT_AGENCY can see much much more.
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by Planktonne on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @10:30AM (#48208493)
> these companies are filled with ideologues

Are they? They don't behave like it.

Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by gmerc on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @10:16AM (#48208235)
Its very hard to be so naive.
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by SR2Z on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @10:40AM (#48208675)
I think you are being ridiculous. Tampering with an LLMs pretraining is a difficult undertaking. There is plenty of evidence that training a model to walk the party line leaves it less capable than if it weren't.

It's not very subtle manipulation either; ask qwen of Taiwan is a part of China in German and in English and only the English answer will be party-approved.

Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by embedding-shape on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @11:54AM (#48209806)
Compared to what we have proof the US government have engaged in before? Do people not remember PRISM anymore? It was virtually impossible to think of the scope before it was leaked, and you'd be marked as a conspiracy theorist for believing that happened, before it was made concretely true.

I think it's borderline naive to assume various agencies haven't infiltrated OpenAI, Anthropic and others, essentially the entire world was wiretapped by NSA in the past, to assume they don't have an employee or two at these companies does seem a bit naive to me.

Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by logicchains on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @01:17PM (#48210974)
Agencies like the CIA have infiltrated the news agencies, so they have indirect power over the information that LLMs consume.
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by italiansolider on Thursday May 21, 2026 @10:31PM (#48231281)
Yup, that's data poisoning on worldwide scale.
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by SR2Z on Friday May 22, 2026 @03:42PM (#48240563)
So there's no reason for the CIA to poison LLMs at all then according to you?
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by gmerc on Thursday May 21, 2026 @01:13PM (#48226026)
Tampering with pretraining is as simple as uploading a few pages to github. See pliny
Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by gcr on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @01:43PM (#48211319)
how could running the qwen GGUF phone home? that would require cooperation with the inference backend (llama-cpp), or some kind of model exploit. It’d be far easier to pay the agent harness devs or supply-chain some plugin or something, that space is the Wild West anyways

I've certainly used these models without wifi without any differences.

Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by HDBaseT on Wednesday May 20, 2026 @06:55PM (#48215440)
You've used Qwen with model quantization, locally without internet connection.

A lot of people are purchasing access via Alibaba Cloud directly, or indirectly by companies which host the model.

Re:Qwen3.7-Max: The Agent Frontier by gcr on Thursday May 21, 2026 @08:09AM (#48221347)
Pardon. You had mentioned open weight models so I assumed you meant self-hosted