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Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by liampulles on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @08:12AM (#46134105)
Fun fact: The X-Files production team foresaw the coming of 16:9 home entertainment, so they made some effort (increasing with later seasons) to try and "protect" a 16:9 frame, which allowed for an unusually good (not perfect) Blu-ray restoration.

I learned this from the older X-files DVDs, which have some unusually good special features.

Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by actionfromafar on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @08:39AM (#46134358)
Not saying it had anything to do with X-files, but also when you shot something for TV but were not entirely sure if the capture would ever go to the movies, you protected the wide frame.

Also, if you shot a movie but wanted it to look good in TV later, you put the most important action somewhere in a 4:3.

Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by gwbas1c on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @10:15AM (#46135429)
Some movies were shot in 4:3 (ish) and cropped in the theater. Titanic is an example.

(For the pedantic, yes there is a name for this technique, and yes the ratios aren't exactly 4:3.)

Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by dylan604 on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @10:30AM (#46135620)
35mm film is more square than rectangle. When you shoot wider aspect ratios, the whole frame is exposed. The eyepiece on the camera has lines on them to allow the DP to see the framing for the desired aspect ratio vs the whole frame. So it wasn't just a Titanic as example, it was pretty much all film was shot like that.

When digital cameras like the ones from Red came out, you can tell it the aspect ratio so it only saves the active pixels of the full sensor and ignore all of the out of aspect pixels. That's a brave operator doing that, and I've only seen it in the wild once.

Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by turnsout on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @11:16AM (#46136241)
Not quite but close. Titanic, like a lot of movies of the 90s and 2000s, was shot in Super 35. In Super 35, the image is ~4:3, but it requires optical printing or scanning to produce a release print, since the image is both not the correct aspect ratio and also occupies the area used for optical sound.

So it was not "cropped in the theater"—the theater got a standard anamorphic print. To go from the Super 35 negative to the anamorphic print, they both cropped and optically squeezed the image (in the case of the non-vfx shots), and scanned, cropped, squeezed digitally and printed back to film (in the case of the vfx shots). This was a few years before they did full "digital intermediates."

Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by jjmarr on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @12:21PM (#46137208)
The term is "open matte" and is the ideal way of watching movies on folding phones.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_matte

Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by actionfromafar on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @02:39PM (#46138973)
Open matte is a filming technique.

The second half of your sentence is misguided.

Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by dmpk2k on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @08:40AM (#46134360)
Similar with Babylon 5, although the CG has not aged as well.
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by WorldMaker on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @11:00AM (#46136033)
The Babylon 5 team had tried to prepare for that as well by keeping digital masters of all the effects. It would have meant recompositing, which isn't necessarily cheap, but in theory they could have run the exact same effects at a higher resolution.

Unfortunately, Warner Brothers lost those files. Rumor has it when they sent copies to Sierra (really Vivendi at the time, just before the Activision acquisition) for a Babylon 5 videogame the WB Archives team accidentally sent their only copy and that when the videogame project was shutdown they destroyed the copies per the IP license agreement.

There's a high probability that even if WB had had the digital masters of the effects, they probably still would have stuck to the 4:3 restoration over the 16:9 restoration to avoid recompositing costs, but it's still such a weird swing of bad luck that the production team thought ahead about HD technology well enough as well as anyone could at that time and yet the 4K copy we have in this timeline is in the wrong aspect ratio.

Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by sgt on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @09:06AM (#46134613)
I don't know, currently watching Babylon 5 Season 3 and I think the CG is pretty impressive. It's not high resolution or sharp, but the ray tracing is excellent. A lot of moving parts flying around everywhere with lighting and planets in the background.
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by zehaeva on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @09:11AM (#46134673)
What he's talking about is that the CGI in B5 was filmed in 4:3 and not in 16:9 like the rest of the show. When they did the "high res" releases they had to make the choice of doing everything in 16:9 or in 4:3.

In 4:3 it looks good and like the original airing show, in 16:9 any non-digital/composite shot looks freaking fantastic. But once you get to any digital or composite shot it takes a nose dive in quality.

Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by bbarnett on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @10:04AM (#46135307)
There was recent (last few years) work done to fix all of this.

https://www.modeemi.fi/~leopold/Babylon5/DVD/DVDTransfer.htm...

I have these versions, and it's world better than everything beforehand. It's also a good opportunity for a re-watch!

Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by sgt on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @10:30AM (#46135632)
A very well written show. It's crazy to think a lot of people don't even get to watch this, because it's so hard to find. I couldn't find it anywhere (except for DVD's) so I had to resort to torrents.
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by WorldMaker on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @11:04AM (#46136078)
There's a 4K 4:3 remaster streaming on HBO Max. It wasn't exactly well advertised (certainly not to the extent that it has been hard to miss this Mad Men advertising), but it exists and is a good way to watch the show. Feels a bit less cinematic not being in 16:9, but it looks good other than that because the show was shot to be 4:3 safe (as that was still the most common TV at the time).
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by sgt on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @03:04PM (#46139316)
Also a US only thing. Torrents keeping the rest of us alive.
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by temp0826 on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @12:13PM (#46137088)
I loved B5's story, but no remaster is going to fix the cheeseball acting of the show. It felt 200 years old even when it was airing. (Sigh, I'm probably still going to rewatch it...)
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by sgt on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @03:03PM (#46139292)
I think Garibaldi was actually quite good.

Sheridan was maybe a bit cheesy at times but definitely gave off that vibe of a leader one could follow into battle.

Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by 5555624 on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @01:08PM (#46137828)
It's streaming, for free, on Tubi
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by sgt on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @03:02PM (#46139282)
Not available outside the US, I think. Torrents are then just more convenient.
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by 5555624 on Monday December 08, 2025 @06:15PM (#46199015)
United States, Canada, Mexico, Australia, United Kingdom. Parts of Latin America: Costa Rica, Ecuador, El Salvador, Guatemala, Panama, Puerto Rico.

If you want to pirate it, with yt-dlp and the URL, you can download items from the Tubi web site. (Don't ask me how I know.)

Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by petee on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @08:46AM (#46134414)
The first season or two you can definitely see the crew in the safety margins, sometimes the camera crane too
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by aomix on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @09:55AM (#46135191)
I never watched the widescreen version of The Wire they put out years ago but now I'm curious again. That show was a bone deep 4:3 product and the show plays with it constantly. Here is an interesting breakdown that made me really appreciate how clever they got while trying to be pretty subdued with the cinematography on The Wire https://vimeo.com/39768998
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by lloeki on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @10:10AM (#46135364)
I watched both; both are good, in different ways. Some scenes that I remember being beautifully composed in 4:3 lost to the transition, while others have improved markedly.

They made a ton of effort on it, recognising it's a different version altogether:

> The new version of The Wire, then, will differ both creatively and technically. In certain cases, such as a scene in season two where longshoreman gather around a body, Simon said he believed the added space would add a vulnerability to the scene that wasn’t possible in 4:3. But he describes other scenes where the added space distracts the eye, and the remaster zooms in on the characters to retain that intimacy.

https://www.techhive.com/article/599415/hbo-remastered-the-w...

Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by michaelbuckbee on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @10:12AM (#46135397)
David Simon's earlier work, "Homicide" had a lot of interesting switching between film + video and aspect ratios as well. I think it's something that he's been interested in for a long time.
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by liampulles on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @11:30AM (#46136463)
David Simon wrote the source material for Homicide but did not "make" the show, he cut his teeth in TV writing on Homicide.

I have Homicide on DVD, it also has some good extras.

Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by echelon_musk on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @06:54PM (#46141972)
It was recently remastered. I watched in the original 4:3 but I'm happy that some love has been put into restoring the show, albeit in unintended 16:9.
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by wackget on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @12:49PM (#46137588)
https://vimeo.com/39768998

> This video is not rated. Join vimeo to watch

No thanks. Here's a YouTube mirror: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufs0Rwx8sOk

Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by echelon_musk on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @06:56PM (#46141989)
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by anal_reactor on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @10:14AM (#46135425)
When you have an OLED screen then 4:3 aspect ratio is fine because the black bars aren't backlit, so it's not a problem.
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by layer8 on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @12:14PM (#46137105)
Except when you do it too much, the 4:3 area will remain brighter due to the higher usage.
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by liampulles on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @11:33AM (#46136512)
I mean I personally would prefer a 4:3 restoration anyway, because composition and its relation to mise en scene are important to me, but c'est la vie.
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by doctornoble on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @10:21AM (#46135507)
Not to dismiss the X-files team, but 16:9 was already around when they started. Just not in the states. Japan started getting 16:9 CRTs in the early 90s, Europe followed in the mid 90s. America lagged another half decade and effectively skipped 16:9 CRTs mostly going straight to plasma/lcd.
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by drmpeg on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @10:42AM (#46135765)
The first 16:9 content I ever saw was the trailer to "Batman Forever" (with Val Kilmer) in 1995 when I was working at C-Cube Microsystems. The studios use to send them test content all the time for video compression testing. It was on D1 tape, and looked beautiful for SD resolution. The professional Sony CRT 4:3 monitors back then had a 16:9 button to letterbox the image.
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by liampulles on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @11:35AM (#46136544)
Japan has been ahead of the curve on a lot of home media related technology, not least because they manufactured a lot of it.
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by dylan604 on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @10:24AM (#46135538)
I saw a movie in a theater years ago where the projectionist did not change the lens and/or mattes when switching from previews to the main feature. The projected image was much taller like a 1.85 or a 1.78, but the feature was shot wider 2.35/2.40. However, the image wasn't protected for the taller aspect, so all of the on set gak could be seen as it was never meant to be shown at the taller aspect ratio.

I've also sat in transfer sessions where the Pan&Scan decisions were being made to transfer wide screen down to 4:3 vs just doing a center crop extract. It makes you appreciate just how much effort is needed when done as best it could be rather than just the fast/lazy way.

Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by hovering_nox on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @10:39AM (#46135734)
Although Stargate SG-1 (1997) was filmed in 16:9 from the outset, earlier seasons were broadcast in 4:3.
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by rendaw on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @11:08AM (#46136143)
The article mentions that Mad Men was already in 16:9 so the issues are unrelated to re-framing.
Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by ascagnel_ on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @02:49PM (#46139108)
Agreed. Mad Men premiered in 2007, well into the HD era, and was already composed for 16:9. The issue here is that the 4K "remaster" seemingly wasn't mastered at all, just a re-scan of the original negatives at a higher resolution.

That said, I think letterboxing is a better choice than trying to recompose a shot for a different aspect ratio if it wasn't accounted for initially (eg: The X-Files). And even then, the shot selection and composition would have been different had the aspect ratio been initially different (like TXF's 16:9 versions leaving the edges of the frame largely unused).

Re:The "Mad Men" in 4K on HBO Max Debacle by russdill on Wednesday December 03, 2025 @01:27PM (#46138068)
Friends....did not.