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Re:Let's stop pretending that managers and executives care a... by tptacek on Thursday August 07, 2025 @12:25PM (#44826570)
The author has twisted themselves into a weird pretzel trying to tie a broad societal critique about short-termism to day-to-day line management. Your manager almost certainly does care about your productivity; in fact, the more biting critique is probably that they care too much about it, working to juice output in the short term while paying short shrift to downstream consequences.
Re:Let's stop pretending that managers and executives care a... by lapcat on Thursday August 07, 2025 @01:28PM (#44827512)
> Your manager almost certainly does care about your productivity

Your middle manager likely cares less about your productivity than about sucking up to those above your middle manager in the hierarchy, and your productivity is at best only tenuously related to that.

In fact your middle manager is responsible for enforcing the C-suite's directives on you. Any deviation from that, even if it increases your productivity, is likely to result in punishment rather than reward for your manager.

Re:Let's stop pretending that managers and executives care a... by serial_dev on Thursday August 07, 2025 @02:32PM (#44828536)
> your middle manager is responsible for enforcing the C-suite's directives on you

So true, our company monitors PR counts, it’s all pushed from higher level execs. So my manager, the middle manager, tells us, “make sure your PR counts do not stand out negatively” and pretty much independently of this, make sure you deliver value. We need to keep the PR count up, so that execs see charts going up, and need to work on things that matter so that they don’t realize those are BS metrics to enforce. The thing is measuring what matters is not trivial for software engineering, so they measure what’s easy to measure, and they can pat themselves on the back for being data driven.

Re:Let's stop pretending that managers and executives care a... by groby_b on Friday August 08, 2025 @03:31AM (#44834494)
Except.... "You produce timely results" and "your colleagues are aware what you do" is something that does matte, a lot.

And while PR counts and friends aren't a metric to measure people by, that sure are a signal to keep an eye on.

It measures what matters - it helps identify potential problems. Maybe your process started slowing people down, maybe your CQ/CI became a royal pain, maybe a problem is much harder than expected - and maybe some people are slackers.

Re:Let's stop pretending that managers and executives care a... by chasd00 on Thursday August 07, 2025 @02:35PM (#44828592)
All any manager cares about, from the very top most senior leaders to the bottom of the barrel TLs, is getting the boss off their back. If increased productivity makes the boss happy then that will be the focus, if it's something else then the focus will be that something else. Every manager has a boss and they're a PITA.
Re:Let's stop pretending that managers and executives care a... by add-sub-mul-div on Thursday August 07, 2025 @12:35PM (#44826697)
Sounds like the same argument. They don't care about true productivity, they want the appearance of it, the illusory short term gains of AI.
Re:Let's stop pretending that managers and executives care a... by knallfrosch on Thursday August 07, 2025 @01:21PM (#44827374)
A genie offers you either: You're 50% more productive, or you appear 50% more productive. What would _you_ choose?
Re:Let's stop pretending that managers and executives care a... by eptcyka on Thursday August 07, 2025 @02:58PM (#44828866)
Unless further elaborated, why would one assume that being 50% more productive will not appear as being 50% more productive?
Re:Let's stop pretending that managers and executives care a... by sagarm on Friday August 08, 2025 @01:06AM (#44833628)
Real world experience.
Re:Let's stop pretending that managers and executives care a... by beng-nl on Thursday August 07, 2025 @01:33PM (#44827582)
I don’t see the dilemma - if you want to appear 50% more productive, why not actually be 50% more productive too?

Or do you mean being more productive doesn’t automatically translate to it being visible.. yeah that is a tricky one..

Re:Let's stop pretending that managers and executives care a... by fcatalan on Thursday August 07, 2025 @01:55PM (#44827951)
That guy that doesn't even show up might be just playing videogames... Or maybe taking credit for your work over a coffee with the boss of your boss
Re:Let's stop pretending that managers and executives care a... by throwaway1004 on Thursday August 07, 2025 @12:51PM (#44826889)
I would frame this slightly differently: managers care about delivery above all else, not necessarily productivity or efficiency.

Their goal is to attach their name to as many features/initatives as possible, owning the successes and orphaning failures, to impress their bosses. Another related goal is to have as many reports as possible. Delivery is relative to the average velocity: often, it's preferable to have a slow, inefficient operation so you can sandbag your bosses AND increase your headcount.

When it comes to improving processes and tools, managers prefer low-risk, iterative improvements which they can (somewhat) grasp. They also enjoy one-off prototypes and half-baked hacker projects which use new and shiny technology. Both categories make great fodder for PowerPoint presentations in front of shirts.

When it comes to larger, fundamental shifts which they cannot grok nor plausibly attach their name to, many managers will actively impede such efforts, as this risks upsetting the status quo which is (probably) working for them. The exceptions are usually the smart middle-managers looking to create a rising tide.

I've worked at a company that had dozens upon dozens of teams working on precisely the same problems (standard build->deploy->test->release fare), using many of the same tools, each with their own half-baked and poorly maintained configuration, plugins, dependencies, and custom libraries (sometimes, they even wrote a few tests!).

You can probably guess the majority of the proposal I put together, it's foundational stuff. It was presented and discussed among our senior+ engineers, and with managers.

>"You know... maybe there's value in letting teams be innovative..."

Re:Let's stop pretending that managers and executives care a... by heisenbit on Thursday August 07, 2025 @01:13PM (#44827230)
> managers care about delivery above all else

More precisely about benefit derived from the delivery. Best case scenario is the team is part of the benefit thinking but that is not a given. Also the layer above may engineer a situation where team and manager benefits from delivery are in conflict.