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Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by bradleyjg on Monday August 04, 2025 @11:28AM (#44787191)
It’s possible to violate all sorts of social norms. Societies that celebrate people that do so are on the far opposite end of the spectrum from high trust ones. They are rather unpleasant.
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by sublinear on Monday August 04, 2025 @11:57AM (#44787638)
Do we really want a "high trust" society? That sounds awful.
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by bradleyjg on Monday August 04, 2025 @11:59AM (#44787670)
A place where you can lose you wallet and get it back with all the cash inside.

The horror!!

Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by sublinear on Monday August 04, 2025 @12:01PM (#44787709)
Forget the wallet. A high trust society is a place where people get swindled all the time in various ways. Any and all trust is inherently bad and naive.
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by fireflash38 on Monday August 04, 2025 @12:16PM (#44787908)
That's a very sad and lonely way to live.
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by sublinear on Monday August 04, 2025 @12:18PM (#44787932)
I don't think we're talking about the same thing.
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by account42 on Tuesday August 05, 2025 @08:56AM (#44797449)
Obviously. You should heed the advice of other posters who told you to look up the meaning of the word.
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by ghurtado on Monday August 04, 2025 @12:11PM (#44787840)
> Any and all trust is inherently bad and naive.

Sounds like the final lesson from a lifetime of successful personal relationships.

[dead]
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by tempfile on Monday August 04, 2025 @12:41PM (#44788253)
No-one is forcing you to post here.
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by arrowsmith on Monday August 04, 2025 @12:21PM (#44787976)
No, you're describing a low-trust society.

Please learn what words mean before you comment on them.

[dead]
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by Imustaskforhelp on Monday August 04, 2025 @12:40PM (#44788240)
Isn't that the system that we are already living in?

Democracy in its american form or even at many others show almost complete paralysis of the entire system basically if bad actors infiltrate it (Looking at ya donald)

It is honestly a little sad since conservatives usually think of their society as this high trust society and they were the ones who primarily voted and are being taken advantaged of by the few untrustworthy individuals.

Politics is a cult/religion and you can't prove me otherwise.

I vote because I vote for lesser evil not for greater good. I do think that frankly, both the parties or just most parties in every nation are just so short of reality but I created a discord server of 100 people and I can see how I can't manage 100 people and so maybe I expect so much from the govt.

I used to focus so much on history and politics but its bloody mess and there is no good or bad. Now I just feel like going into the woods and into the darks living alone, maybe coding.

Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by sensanaty on Monday August 04, 2025 @01:30PM (#44788944)
That's quite literally the opposite of what high trust means...
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by Workaccount2 on Monday August 04, 2025 @05:05PM (#44791326)
Let me guess: A low violence society is bad because people get attacked and beat up?
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by arrowsmith on Monday August 04, 2025 @12:20PM (#44787957)
Go spend some time in Brazil or South Africa or other places where no-one trusts anyone (for good reasons), then report back.
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by immibis on Monday August 04, 2025 @01:59PM (#44789338)
High trust is prima facie incompatible with capitalism. If you want a high trust society, you don't want capitalism. Capitalism is inherently low trust because in capitalism, taking advantage of every edge you can is ultimately a matter of life and death, and that includes deceit. If the penalty for deceit was greater than the penalty for non-deceit then you could have a high-trust society.
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by Ray20 on Monday August 04, 2025 @03:58PM (#44790702)
> High trust is prima facie incompatible with capitalism

Quite compatible

> If you want a high trust society, you don't want capitalism.

There is nothing at all in capitalism that would prevent a high level of trust in society.

> Capitalism is inherently low trust

But that's not true. The thing about capitalism is that it's RESILENT to low trust. It does not require low levels of trust, but is capable of functioning in such conditions.

> If the penalty for deceit was greater than the penalty for non-deceit

Who are the judges? Capitalism is the most resistant to deception, deceivers under capitalism receive fewer benefits than under any other economic system. Simply because capitalism is based on the premise that people cheat, act out of greed, try to get the most for themselves at the expense of others. These qualities exist in people regardless of the existence of capitalism, it is just that capitalism ensures prosperity in society even when people have these qualities.

Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by immibis on Monday August 04, 2025 @05:25PM (#44791542)
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by sublinear on Monday August 04, 2025 @02:22PM (#44789617)
Why bring up capitalism? I don't get it. What's stopping people from lying and cheating under any other system?
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by dgshsg on Monday August 04, 2025 @03:37PM (#44790495)
When lying and cheating doesn't get you ahead, there is no reason to do it.
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by Ray20 on Monday August 04, 2025 @04:04PM (#44790760)
The problem is that without capitalism ONLY lying and cheating will get you ahead. Look at ANY country that builds its economy on the restriction of people's economic freedom, on the absence of private property rights - these are the most deceitful and disgusting regimes in the world with zero level of public trust.
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by ghurtado on Monday August 04, 2025 @05:13PM (#44791426)
You seriously think that mankind wasn't lying and cheating long before inventing capitalism?
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by dgshsg on Monday August 04, 2025 @05:45PM (#44791700)
Sure, but the risk/reward ratio was different.
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by Workaccount2 on Monday August 04, 2025 @05:20PM (#44791498)
If we look at any communist society, the only way to get ahead was lying and cheating. China was forced to adopt capitalist markets to deal with this, hence why modern China hardly resembles the USSR, Cuba, Venezuela, or Laos.
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by immibis on Tuesday August 05, 2025 @07:19AM (#44796700)
Communist with a capital C.

I've never seen a stateless, classless, moneyless society. It may be impossible.

Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by ToucanLoucan on Monday August 04, 2025 @11:41AM (#44787378)
Just the Silicon Valley ethos extended to it's logical conclusions. These companies take advantage of public space, utilities and goodwill at industrial scale to "move fast and break things" and then everyone else has to deal with the ensuing consequences. Like how cities are awash in those fucking electric scooters now.

Mind you I'm not saying electric scooters are a bad idea, I have one and I quite enjoy it. I'm saying we didn't need five fucking startups all competing to provide them at the lowest cost possible just for 2/3s of them to end up in fucking landfills when the VC funding ran out.

Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by SoftTalker on Monday August 04, 2025 @12:18PM (#44787937)
My city impounded them and made them pay a fee to get them back. Now they have to pay a fee every year to be able to operate. Win/win.
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by account42 on Tuesday August 05, 2025 @08:53AM (#44797413)
Do those fees actually improve anything for the citizens who now have to deal with vehicles abandoned on sidewalks everywhere or does it just buy the major a nicer yacht?
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by pixl97 on Monday August 04, 2025 @04:14PM (#44790853)
Oh, this is a bunch of baloney.

What you've pretty much stated is "You must go to the shops yourself so the ads and marketing can completely permeate your soul, and turn you into a voracious consumer.

Businesses have the right to fuck completely and totally off a cliff taking their investor class with them in to the pit of the void. They lear at us from high places spending countless dollars on new ways to tell us we aren't good enough.

Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by Workaccount2 on Monday August 04, 2025 @05:02PM (#44791296)
The only thing consumers have to do to get rid of ads permeating everything is pay for services in full directly. But they won't do that, because the only thing they hate more than ads, is paying with money instead.
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by _proofs on Monday August 04, 2025 @09:12PM (#44793261)
this is such a wild comment -- there are countless products where regardless of purchase -- the user is still served advertisements. i have no idea what reality, or timeline, this comment belongs in.

broadcast television, paid streaming entertainment is just straight up the most glaringly obvious example of a paid service overflowing with advertisements.

paid radio broadcasts (xm/Sirius).

operating systems (windows serves you ads any chance it gets).

monthly subscriptions to gyms where youre constantly hit with ads, marketing, and promotions be it at the gym or via push notification (you got opted into and therefore have to opt out of intentionally after the service is paid).

mobile phones, especially prepaid come LOADED with ads and bloatware.

i mean the list goes on -- you cannot be serious.

Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by Workaccount2 on Tuesday August 05, 2025 @12:15AM (#44794279)
> pay for services in full directly

Those are hybrid subscriptions/subsidies. Not paid in full.

If you are being exposed to ads in something you paid for, you are almost certainly being charged less money. Companies can compete on cost by introducing ads, and it's why the cheaper you go, the more ad infested it gets.

Pure ad-free things tend to be much more expensive then their ad subsidized counterparts. Ad subsidized has become so ubiquitous though, that people think that price is the true price.

Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by _proofs on Tuesday August 05, 2025 @12:54PM (#44800622)
this seems like semantics and corporate hand-waving -- that's not what is conveyed to the user in what i have observed as the context of paid services and the promises asserted around what a purchase gets a customer.

in the subsidized example, xm/Sirius is marketed to users as an "ad-free paid radio broadcast"; the marketing literally attempts to leverage the notion of it being ad-free as a consequence of your purchase (power) in order to highlight its supposed competitive edge and usefulness, and provide the user an incentive to spend money, except for the fact that the marketing is false. you still get served promotions and ads, just less "conventional" ads.

i go to a football game and im literally inundated with ads -- the whole game has time stoppage dedicated to serving ads. i guess my season ticket purchase with the hopes of seeing football in person is.. apparently not spending enough money?

i see this as attempting to move the goalposts and gaslight users on their purchase expectations, as a way to offload the responsibility and accountability back onto the user -- "you don't pay enough, you only think that you pay enough, so we are still going to serve you ads because <insert financial justification here around the expectations we'e undermined>.

why then is there any expectation of a service being ad-free upon purchasing?

who the hell actually enjoys sitting through 1.5 hours of advertisements and play stoppage?

over time users have been conditioned to just tolerate it, and over time, the advertising reclaims ground it previously gave up one inch at a time in the same way people are price-gouged in those stadiums -- they don't have much alternative, but apparently the problem is the user should fork up more money for tickets so as to align their expectations with reality? while they're getting strong-armed at the concession stand via proximity and circumstance and lack of competition, no less.

are you really trying to tell me the problem there is, they need to make... more money? and THEN and only THEN we can have ad-free, paid for entertainment otherwise known as american football? is this really about user expectations, or is this about companies wanting their cake and eating it, too?

Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by bradleyjg on Monday August 04, 2025 @08:30PM (#44792995)
Blah blah blah

No one even bothers offering an alternative with their anti capitalism. No one is talking about nationalizing anything, just free college. Hint: that’s welfare capitalism.

Keep bypassing those paywalls—-you warrior for economic justice!

Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by p3rls on Monday August 04, 2025 @10:19PM (#44793657)
Braindead communist retard
Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by tomhow on Tuesday August 05, 2025 @10:02AM (#44798098)
You can't comment like this on Hacker News, no matter what you're replying to. It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.

If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

Re:Perplexity is using stealth, undeclared crawlers to evade... by tomhow on Tuesday August 05, 2025 @10:00AM (#44798083)
> Oh, this is a bunch of baloney...

Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.

Comments should get more thoughtful and substantive, not less, as a topic gets more divisive.

When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."

Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.

Eschew flamebait. Avoid generic tangents. Omit internet tropes.

Please don't use Hacker News for political or ideological battle. It tramples curiosity.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html