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Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by neya on Friday August 31, 2012 @06:14AM (#4459036)
>Not that there's anything [wrong] with older prior art - but the key was that the hardware was different, the software was an entirely different methodology, and the more modern software could not be loaded onto the older example and be run without error.

That guy is just bullshitting everyone and assuming we are all idiots. The same could be said for Apple too, in defense of Samsung, right?

EDIT: The way I see it - He supports Apple simply because he is in the same shoes as Apple himself. Do you know what patent this guy owns?

It is a 'very innovative patent' just like Apple's 'rounded corners'.

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sec...

Now you see, why he's supporting Apple. Both own BS patents.

Actually, this verdict should have been expected - The court is in the country of the infringer (Apple), The lawyers are from the same country and the money is also from the same country. There is no reason as to why people should support Samsung (Korean) than they should support Apple (in an unfair world). Apple has easy access to every kind of influence you could think of. This leads us to several conclusions:

1) One who has more money in this is system called 'democracy' RULES this system, because they automatically gain all the power they need. Including support from all legal systems and governments.

2) If you assumed everything happened in a fair platform, without exchange of money illegally, then your assumptions are plain wrong. Apple has a lot of money..even more than Samsung, it is easier for Apple to payout the necessary guys in the legal system and still not leak it outside to anyone, than it is for Samsung. This is NOT to confirm they bribed someone, but just to let you know that there is a very high probability of them doing so.

Why do I think so? Think about this fact: Apple has sued numerous competitors using their BS patents and has won several times. Numerous competitors have sued Apple and none of them have had a fair victory yet. Surely there is something fishy going on here.

Also to be noted - Apple has more money than any of their competitors.

3) I suspect even Samsung's lawyers could have been manipulated, because they all seem slightly dumb to me (on purpose?).

In all its entirety, this whole legal system and patent system is just a clever way for the people involved to make money. Tomorrow, if you plan to start a phone company, just keep all this in mind; You are as vulnerable as Samsung is to get sued for BS reasons by such patent trolls (Apple).

A little personal:

I wanted to buy a tablet for my mom, I was seriously considering the iPad 2, because it still is a really good tablet. After all this BS, I've decided not to buy any of their products, even though in the end, loss of a single user is not going to matter to them. But I am pretty sure that there is strength in numbers. I sincerely plead everyone to boycott Apple and its products, because if its going to be more than just one user(me), it WILL surely have an impact on them. Hopefully, they will learn not to repeat all this shitty behavior again.

A little deeper:

Actually, if you are against Apple for such bad behavior, you have no other choice, than to boycott them. A few months back, my idea was to create a better tablet than Apple did and show the world that they aren't the only ones who can do it and they are over-hyped as hell. I contacted Chinese OEM's, display guys, etc. But, later I realized, it will be of no use, because I will be as vulnerable as Samsung was...and I don't even have the money to defend myself or my tablet startup. Hence the only way to screw Apple right now is to stop buying their products.

Thanks for reading.

Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by jeltz on Friday August 31, 2012 @06:21AM (#4459049)
I have no idea if there were any bribes involved. But one should be careful to blame money where just nationalism and fanboyism could explain it. The head of the jury seems also to be a patent troll.
Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by neya on Friday August 31, 2012 @08:11AM (#4459288)
>The head of the jury seems also to be a patent troll.

Yep, just had a look at one of his patents. Incased you missed it:

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect2=PTO1&Sec...

Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by shiven on Friday August 31, 2012 @07:31AM (#4459186)
Please stop appealing to emotions for making an argument that is best supported by hard facts. I am having a hard time understanding what you are trying to say due to lack of credible sources in your comment and/or logic grounded in verifiable reality outside.
Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by neya on Friday August 31, 2012 @07:54AM (#4459245)
Thanks for letting me know about your level of comprehension about my comment. It would help if you can give some valid reasons instead of such vague description about the logic in my comment. Kindly use the '>' symbol to reply to specific points you disagree with.

I simply say that:

1) Apple has sued numerous competitors and has won many cases using trivial patents.

2) Numerous competitors have sued Apple for valid, non-BS patents in return and Apple has been found not to infringe a Single patent by ANY of its competitors.

3)In the latest Samsung vs Apple case, numerous inconsistencies were noted by many notable sources (including Groklaw)

And then, I simply say conclude that:

1) Something is wrong with this system; Which may have/most likely involved illegal money (This speculation is because of the reasons above)

2) All these legal systems and patents are hindering innovation. (And I include a personal story of mine, as a member of the start-up community and how it affects us in general)

If you still have a hard time understanding, please let me know. We will have a cup of tea together.

Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by option_greek on Friday August 31, 2012 @06:46AM (#4459100)
I'm no iFan but I think this is a little too cynical. Also more than money, you are ruling out a major factor - sympathy for the home team. I still have faith that this ridiculous ruling will be overturned in an appeal.
Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by neya on Friday August 31, 2012 @07:48AM (#4459225)
>I still have faith that this ridiculous ruling will be overturned in an appeal.

Let us all hope so!

Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by crash013 on Friday August 31, 2012 @06:23AM (#4459056)
I am going to be disillusioned with HN if this uninformed speculation isn't buried.
Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by neya on Friday August 31, 2012 @06:29AM (#4459068)
So you conclude the patent system and the legal structure is fine as it is? Because, my conclusion is the opposite from all the points I make above.
Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by rbanffy on Friday August 31, 2012 @07:27AM (#4459179)
False dichotomy alert: the patent system may be broken in ways other than your speculation.

I don't think bribes were involved, for instance.

Also, it's wise not to attribute to malice what can be adequately explained by incompetence. This jury was obviously incompetent and manipulated (even if not deliberately) by a foreman with his own agenda.

Another one a good friend once taught me: when you think you have figured out something nobody else did, odds are you're wrong. He used lines on a bank as an example: if there are two lines and one is much smaller than the other, they are probably not interchangeable and, if you enter the short one, you may realize you entered the wrong one.

Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by neya on Friday August 31, 2012 @07:36AM (#4459200)
>The patent system may be broken in ways other than your speculation.

I claim that the patent system is broken because it allows anyone to patent BS trivial stuff, which can later be used to sue their competitors.

I would love to hear your version of 'the ways other than your(my) speculation'

Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by rbanffy on Friday August 31, 2012 @07:56AM (#4459251)
I don't disagree with this specific point, but you made a lot of other points in your post.

I also suggest you are coming across as somewhat aggressive. We can disagree in less emotional ways, even if it is an emotional issue for most of us.

Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by neya on Friday August 31, 2012 @08:04AM (#4459269)
>I also suggest you are coming across as somewhat aggressive.

It is true, even when I read my own comment now, I do find it a bit aggressive. I'm genuinely sorry for that...actually I was kind of taken aback after reading that Jury's reasoning...and used the same spirit to type that comment...Nothing is fair in this world..

Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by gurkendoktor on Friday August 31, 2012 @07:28AM (#4459182)
No, but the part about bribery is pure speculation. I am also shocked to find this at the top spot.
Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by scotty79 on Friday August 31, 2012 @08:03AM (#4459268)
So much money is in the play that bribery should be assumed by default until proven beyond reasonable dubt otherwise.
Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by greedo on Friday August 31, 2012 @09:15AM (#4459524)
And logically you could extend that to ridiculous extremes. Assuming anything by default is a sign of a weak argument.
Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by scotty79 on Friday August 31, 2012 @10:05AM (#4459736)
In my feeling assuming that there were no bribes in $1bn trial is already ridiculous extreme of rule: Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.
Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by greedo on Friday August 31, 2012 @09:13AM (#4459517)
I'm always reminded of "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence," and rants like this spinning conspiracy tales never meet that standard.
Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by dharmach on Friday August 31, 2012 @07:49AM (#4459230)
Not sure I am correct but had similar feeling in the case against Toyota
Re:Apple versus Samsung: Jury foreman justifies $1bn verdict by johnx123-up on Friday August 31, 2012 @06:19AM (#4459045)
I don't think, all lawyers are on Apple side. Refer http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4458963