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Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by ryao on Saturday July 05, 2025 @05:48PM (#44475834)
My take away from this is that letting the small fish go under the premise that they are juveniles that will later grow to be bigger lets the adult midgets go, ruining the gene pool. I wonder if this finding will have any impact on conservation rules against taking small fish when fishing.
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by ruined on Saturday July 05, 2025 @08:06PM (#44476576)
trawlers historically haven't really discriminated by size. development of decent selective trawling equipment, and introduction of a minimum size is fairly recent

as a data point, a recent change in regulations regarding eastern Baltic cod had no statistical effect on reported catch https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/978-3-030-03308-8_...

>Data quality for stock assessments has deteriorated, discarding of cod has not decreased despite a reduced minimum size and there are no indications of increased gear selectivity in the fishery

Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by kbutler on Saturday July 05, 2025 @08:47PM (#44476794)
...haven't /INTENTIONALLY/ discriminated by size...

The article says smaller fish could more easily escape the nets. Though it doesn't cite studies documenting that, it does seem reasonable.

Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by twelve40 on Saturday July 05, 2025 @07:51PM (#44476488)
maybe, but how can you possibly tell - in bulk - if you are dealing with a midget or really a young fish that had no chance to spawn? (which is the point here)
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by thaumasiotes on Saturday July 05, 2025 @06:09PM (#44475981)
> ruining the gene pool

In what sense? Is being bigger Platonically better than being smaller?

Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by p1necone on Saturday July 05, 2025 @07:21PM (#44476346)
Presumably the optimal size for survival when humans aren't applying pressure via fishing is bigger. Perhaps "ruining" is hyperbolic, but this is making the fish less fit for their environment.
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by kbutler on Saturday July 05, 2025 @08:48PM (#44476804)
...less fit for their environment excluding human fishing pressure.
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by tzs on Saturday July 05, 2025 @09:05PM (#44476886)
It is making them less fit for their environment? I can see how it is making them less fit for the environment they used to be in before they were subject to large scale human fishing, but that's not their environment now.
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by mattmaroon on Saturday July 05, 2025 @11:05PM (#44477487)
If that’s the case it should return if we stopped fishing.
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by heavyset_go on Sunday July 06, 2025 @12:37AM (#44477881)
Not always the case. Any number of things can happen that could prevent that from happening, like extinction, as an extreme example.
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by thoroughburro on Sunday July 06, 2025 @08:01AM (#44479974)
No. A certain gene expression can just be gone forever. Nothing guarantees the desired expression will evolve again.
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by mattmaroon on Sunday July 06, 2025 @10:48AM (#44481234)
Sure it does, there is still variation in the sizing of them. If the previous size was the ideal one, and assuming that has otherwise not changed, the larger cod will be more fit and breed more.
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by kwk1 on Sunday July 06, 2025 @06:15PM (#44484582)
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by Scarblac on Sunday July 06, 2025 @03:55AM (#44478706)
Their environment is one where humans prey on them, especially on the large ones. It's a selection pressure like any other and becoming smaller on average makes them more fit for that environment.
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by ruined on Saturday July 05, 2025 @08:08PM (#44476588)
if you're interested in maintenance of the fishery, size reduction is a primary indicator of failure. so yes
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by hungmung on Saturday July 05, 2025 @07:02PM (#44476252)
> Is being bigger Platonically better than being smaller?

Maybe, most animals evolve towards larger sizes. Except on smallish islands, where they tend to become smaller.

Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by thaumasiotes on Saturday July 05, 2025 @11:20PM (#44477552)
> Maybe, most animals evolve towards larger sizes.

This is not even a little bit true.

Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by masklinn on Sunday July 06, 2025 @07:19AM (#44479720)
> Maybe, most animals evolve towards larger sizes.

Animals tend towards whatever size lets them maximise survival. This is based on available niches and other selective pressures.

> Except on smallish islands, where they tend to become smaller.

Island syndrome leads to both gigantism and dwarfism.

Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by fpoling on Sunday July 06, 2025 @08:38AM (#44480270)
> Animals tend towards whatever size lets them maximise survival.

Evolution is a filter that removes unfit, it does not select the best fit. So a lot of mutations that slightly decreases fitness for the environment stay as they do not make an organism too unfit. This results in a gen pool diversity in a population that helps to survive if the environment changes as previously somewhat harmful mutations can be essential for survival in the new situation.

Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by thatguy0900 on Saturday July 05, 2025 @06:11PM (#44475992)
It's better if you want to eat them lol
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by bluGill on Saturday July 05, 2025 @06:24PM (#44476074)
Small fish generally taste better in my experience. Small of course implies younger, so we let the biger ones go as well as small ones - there is a too small to eat point.
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by kulahan on Saturday July 05, 2025 @11:20PM (#44477556)
In the sense that the gene pool is being unintentionally manipulated by humans, when the original goal was to try and leave it undisturbed to an extent.
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by wiseowise on Sunday July 06, 2025 @03:04AM (#44478484)
Yes. It is.
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by magicalhippo on Saturday July 05, 2025 @08:42PM (#44476766)
> My take away from this is that letting the small fish go under the premise that they are juveniles that will later grow to be bigger lets the adult midgets go, ruining the gene pool.

I read about this being tested in large fish tanks using either cod or trout some 20+ years ago, where they removed fish either randomly, or let the small ones go. They came to the same conclusion: letting small fish go results in reduction of average size of mature fish after a few generations.

The authors of the submitted paper references this[1] article, which points out the following:

Despite a theoretically strong conceptual basis, evidence of genetic change unequivocally attributable to wild-capture fisheries has been elusive. Among the top five threats to biodiversity, evidence for genetic trait change is strongest for studies of pollution and weakest for studies of overexploitation (and habitat change). Determining whether phenotypic change in declining populations is the result of evolution, as opposed to other influences on growth, survival, and fitness, or gene flow from adjacent populations, has proven challenging.

So this paper seems to provide evidence that the lab results holds up in the wild.

[1]: https://www.pnas.org/doi/full/10.1073/pnas.2105319118

Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by fny on Saturday July 05, 2025 @09:20PM (#44476977)
Id think the small fish are let go more often because they aren't good eats. No one is trying to cheat the warden for a six incher.
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by londons_explore on Sunday July 06, 2025 @06:44AM (#44479522)
A good chunk of fish caught are ground up and fed to chickens/other fish.

The grinder doesn't care what size the fish are.

Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by xbmcuser on Saturday July 05, 2025 @10:07PM (#44477204)
Being small is an evolutionary advantage in this case so that is understandable outcome. On the other hand for maine lobsters they let large males and egg laying females go with the large life spans of lobsters would be hard to compare if they getting larger
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by gus_massa on Saturday July 05, 2025 @10:24PM (#44477306)
There is a curious case with small male salmons: From https://www.fishingwithrod.com/articles/fish_biology/whats_u...

> Size obviously matters when it comes to mating for salmon. However, being a small male can also succeed when it comes to scoring a female. The so-called "jacks" that are found in chinook and coho salmon are male individuals that return to their natal streams a couple of years earlier than expected.

> Although they are much smaller than a fully grown male, they are also sexually matured when they reach the spawning ground. What advantages do these smaller fish have? It is obvious that they will not win when confronted by a fully grown male. Behavioural biologists believe that these jacks are "sneaker males". Their duty is to simply stand by when larger males are fighting for territory, and sneak in while unnoticed to mate with the females that are also waiting for the fights to end. As you can see, being big does not always have all the advantages, sometimes being small can be very beneficial too.

IIRC the female already laid the eggs, and the big males start to fight. During the fight the small one sneaks a fertilice them. "Waiting" and "Mate" are misleading.

Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by kulahan on Saturday July 05, 2025 @11:18PM (#44477540)
It's kind of hilarious to me that the female watches the males fight to the point that she doesn't even watch her own eggs. I wonder how long these jacks have been around?
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by gus_massa on Sunday July 06, 2025 @07:01AM (#44479618)
IANAB IIRC salmons lay the eggs is swallow holes in a quiet part of the river. She is problably thinking that those idiots are going to spill the eggs and they will be drafted by the water and die, so she has to try to keep the fight away.
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by BlackFly on Sunday July 06, 2025 @01:10PM (#44482391)
Here is a decade old study talking about that: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/science.aac4249
Re:Cod Have Been Shrinking for Decades, Scientists Say They'... by tsfenwick on Monday July 07, 2025 @12:35PM (#44492065)
As a former commercial fisherman this is something we talked about on how there should be a max size limit.