Here is a bright idea, keep the existing program that works and therefore we wouldn’t need some mythical private certification program that doesn’t exist and probably be a scam if it did.

I can only think of one private scheme in this space that's worked well - 80 Plus. For a voluntary program, it's been pretty broadly adopted, and it created an implicit factor of "why is it not certified" that puts pressure on the worst junk products.

Across the board though, PC PSU quality has gone up quite a bit in the last 20-25 years though.

80 plus doesn't cover idle efficiency though, so unless you only run your computer when compiling or gaming and then turn it back off, it probably doesn't capture the fact that modern computers are basically completely idle at all times.

UL certification has been pretty successful in an adjacent space (fire safety, notably of electronics but it covers other things too). That has been regressing lately, though.

Why do we have to reinvent the wheel! We have the program and its been established for over 3 decades.

Im so tired of the arguement of its not perfect guess we should get rid of it, start from scratch, and the new system will have none of those problems.

This isnt about government excess spending either. If the government was really concerned about excess spending they would take a real deep look at DOD spending and the number of cost plus contracts

Appliances can use less energy of the mfrs are encouraged to design that. Energy Star was that encouragement.

Not sure about that. Industry created, private energy efficiency programs have often been nothing more than industry cheerleaders.

> I don't see how shutting down this program would affect costs

> Plus, a private certification program could easily fill in the void.

Ah there’s your problem. It turns out private solutions actually cost money, and relying on a private certification program to “fill the void” as you say, is what actually changes the costs.

Alternatively if you believe that private corporate actions are always free when comparing it to government services, then this is a net zero change

Is there a single rocket certification program in any industry that is actually pro-consumer? I’m failing to think of an example.

Private industry cannot be trusted to act in any interest but their own bottom line.

Energy Star, as a matter of fact, is almost entirely privately run. Certification is voluntary and testing/verification is done by private labs. Replace government by some industry consortium or non-profit and not much as changed.

The Energy Star label influences the low end of the market, making it so manufacturers will spend an extra dollar or two of parts cost on baseline models rather than reserving those "innovations" for premium models selling for many hundreds of dollars more.

The recent Energy Star requirements have gone horribly wrong for some things (eg dishwashers that no longer dry dishes because they omitted a drying heating element, clothes washers that fail to clean clothes because they skimped on water too much), but the basic idea is sound.

> dishwashers that no longer have straightforward heating elements for drying

I love how Americans just can't figure this out, as if the German brands that are all three of better, cheaper to buy, and cheaper to operate simply don't exist. The American consumer is a person who cannot comprehend thermodynamics.

Perhaps if you referenced something concrete there would be more to talk about?

I'm only aware of Bosch, which uses some type of humidity-absorbing crystals that then desiccate with the heat of the next cycle. The marketing implication that this doesn't use energy would seem to be playing on that lack of understanding of thermodynamics.

Never mind costing 2x or more for the models with this feature, still seeing complaints of people online saying they don't get the dishes dry, combined with the all-too-common refrain that you have to use "rise aid" - ie elective chemical residue.

(I edited my original comment to focus on the failure of functionality over the lack of a specific mechanism)

With a broad brush, German brands are more expensive to buy, as a premium for the mythical quality reputation which never seems diminished by the high failure rates and incredibly expensive repair costs.

Cutting edge technologies can eke out higher efficiencies, but at the cost of all the downsides of new tech - cost premium, unproven designs, potential evolutionary dead end.

I'm in no way in favor of ending Energy Star, but it's risible to assert that stupidity is the only the only reason a consumer would favor a straightforward, easily repaired design over an over-engineered turd stuffed with controller boards that regularly go bad and cost more than the appliance is worth to replace.

This is laughably incorrect. I have purchased multiple high end refrigerators in the past few years and used energy star to determine the opex of them - it influences the high end too.

"laughably incorrect" ? Why so aggressive? For starters, I did not say it did nothing for the high end. Also I was talking about the Energy Star certification, which indicates an appliance has met some minimum efficiency requirements, while you seem to be talking about the Energy Star labeling of power consumption per some benchmark usage. I'm not sure if the pathetic dictator's shutdown is aimed at ending both or just one, but the efficiency criteria are the things people are always complaining about (just like I proceeded to do heh heh), so I assumed that was the main target.

(edit: oh, apparently the labeling is EnergyGuide, so that's not even Energy Star)

I don't know why I'm getting downvoted so hard here. If you read the context of my initial comment, I am generally supportive of Energy Star. But nuance is important.

> This is laughably incorrect.

Be kind. Don't be snarky. Converse curiously; don't cross-examine. Edit out swipes.

When disagreeing, please reply to the argument instead of calling names. "That is idiotic; 1 + 1 is 2, not 3" can be shortened to "1 + 1 is 2, not 3."

Please don't fulminate. Please don't sneer, including at the rest of the community.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

> omitted a drying heating element

There is no "drying heating element" in dishwashers. Disassemble one and see for yourself. The same coil is used both for water heating and air heating during the drying cycle.

And I've so far had no problem with dishwashers drying my dishes.

> The same coil is used both for water heating and air heating during the drying cycle

Sure, if it's the classic design of the heating coil sitting exposed near the bottom of the wash tub.

But most newer dishwashers tend to have a much smaller heating element as part of the sump assembly, capable of heating the water only, because they omit the heated dry cycle. From what I've seen these days, you have to buy one without the Energy Star label to get back the traditional dual-use heating element.

And I haven't researched, but I'd venture a guess that those models are just the old designs still being sold, leaving out straightforward efficiency developments like electrically commutated motors. I've fixed many appliances myself, and based on what I've seen I have got little faith in manufacturers' motivations to improve much on their own.

It won't necessarily affect purchase costs but it could affect operating costs.

When I needed a new washing machine a year or so ago there were many machines that were very similar except for large variations in energy efficiency. If it weren't for the Energy Star labels I almost certainly would have ended up with a machine with higher operating costs.