The thing is if you have time to rake a car lock, you can also just break the window if you're going to rob the interior.

The key fob attack is superior since no one looks twice if you walk up to a car, it unlocks from a hand held device and then you get in and drive off.

With practice raking doesn't take that much time and "usually" comes with the benefit of not tripping the alarm that the door was opened (because the car "thinks" the door has just been unlocked with a key).

The thing is, in the real world, no one really looks twice when someone gets into a car unless they are using obvious brute force to get into the car.

I think that mechanical key behaviour depends on the car. I'm pretty sure my BMW sets off the alarm if I use the mechanical backup key, but it turns off when I put the key in the ignition slot.

Yeah, I think it is car dependant. But the car I use (gave up my own car, but the family has a shared "work horse" car we are all insured on.) is a 10 year old UK Ford fiesta and that car doesn't trip the alarm if the door is unlocked with the key, and its not the transponder in the key, cause one of the keys to that car doesn't have a transponder and the keys get mixed up from time to time (So you only know you have picked up the wrong key only when you insert the key into the ignition and the immobilizer light is a solid red light - 3 keys, one with a fob, 2 without a fob, one of which has a failed transponder chip in it, these two keys look the same and not one of us has been arsed enough to take both keys to the car, figure out which doesn't work and label it :-P).

(One day, when I can be arsed, I'll rekey the car and reprogram it with fresh transponders, but today is not that day!)

Put a piece of tape or some paint on the handle part of the no-transponder key so you don't mix it up any more. Less effort than the "full-arse" solution.

We keep saying we are going to do something like that, but we keep forgetting because we normally in "Go do task" mode when we grab the keys. Its not too much of an issue because we will normally grab the fob key, it only becomes and issue when one of us forget to put the fob key back when being done with the car.

But "reprogramming" a key (more like adding a key) on that model of ford just involves doing a dance with the fob key then inserting the key with the new transponder. So we plan to get all keys working on the car at some point. I was just going to order a new chip but my bother was complaining about the key barrel being a bit loose on him so just doing to replace everything at some point. Its just more about not being lazy about it :-P

Thing is, its what we call "the work horse" car of the family, it gets used about once a week to do tasks no one wants to do in their own cars (or when I need to do something in a car), so its not really a high priority thing to fix, but if we are going fix it might as well do it "right")

I had a non electronic key cut for my Jeep so I could zip tie it under the frame for emergency use. It will not start the engine, but does open the door locks. When I open the doors with it, the alarm goes off.

Not true for most alarm systems. If the car is locked, then any opening without the key fob unlock button will trigger the alarm in my experience.

My 2001 seqouia's battery recently died. I unlocked the car with the key and when I hooked up the jumper cables the alarm went off until I turned the ignition to on. I was surprised it was that good

It is superior, but a lot more difficult to pull off. And what if raking takes just 5-15 seconds? Because that's how fast it often is.

And in either case you still need to deal with the immobilizer, and turn the core of the ignition lock. Unless your radio device is that comprehensive :)

Presuming its a modern car (and if we are talking about keyless entry/start we are), well then you just plug an "Emergency Start Device" into the OBD port and drive away. Heck a lot of these "Emergency Start Devices" can also unlock the car, but often involve pulling panels/lights from the car to get to the can bus to run the attack.

So that attack when done on its own is mainly left to stealing cars off drives at night rather than say from a supermarkets car park during the day.

Push-to-start eliminates the need to turn a physical lock. They drop to zero security once their RF is broken.

Funfact: in the past Ford and Volkswagen had only a number of different variations for the coding of the physical keys. So that you could open and start several cars with the very same physical key.

I assume that this was also true for other brands.

Many fleet vehicles are still this way. The 1284x key, for example, can open a surprising number of things including many older police vehicles.

A few hundred dollars more on Amazon will net you a magic keyring that can open a surprising number of vehicles, buildings, control systems, and vending machines.

If you're into that sort of thing check out Deviant Ollam's physical pentesting videos on Youtube.

> magic keyring

Are you talking about the "1284x FEO-K1 16120 222343 CH751 CH501 C346A C390A E114 " set?

That's a good start. To do better you'll need to do some reading or watch a ton of youtube videos to identify the keys that will get you the most bang for the buck.

I think mine has something like 20 keys on it now, and it will open a truly surprising number of things that it shouldn't.

This happened to me! Friend had a similar car and at night they went to mine and the door unlocked but the car wouldn't start. The door only had a few pins it checked while the ignition used every pin. We compared our keys and sure enough one part of it was the same.

OBS Ford F-150s do this and it's not common knowledge even among enthusiasts. The back 4 pins work the door, the front 6 or so pins work the ignition. A common problem is that the ignition barrel keyswitch dies and you have to replace it, but then you have separate keys for the door and ignition. I took the new ignition key to a locksmith and had him copy the 4 back pins from the factory key, and I was back to a single key!

I had a similar experience once when I drove a Prius. Walked out of the grocery store, hit the unlock button, got into my car, then wondered why the seat was too far forward - before realizing it was not my Prius.

My mom amd my friends mom both drove toyotas, completely different models and many years apart. By coincidence the key for my friends moms car worked for my moms, for unlock and start, but, my moms could only unlock the other one.

Fun fact: the same applies to common household locks. If you take your household key and try all the same-brand locks in your neighborhood (~50) you'll likely find a match. Don't actually do this, your neighbors will think you're causing trouble.

In the 1970s, I unlocked the door on what I took to be the family VW Rabbit and got behind the wheel. It turned out that the ignition lock was fussier than the door lock, and I discovered my mistake without driving away.

I have a Honda from the late 90s which behaves in a similar way and whose ignition is also fussy but only to a point. With enough wiggling, a key from a different model from ~10 years prior will also start it.

Same thing happened to my Dad when he took us to Disneyland in the 80s. About the time the rental car agency was sending out the spare set of keys, he noticed the items in the backseat weren't ours.

What does Tesla have?

An RFID key with an optional mobile app, AFAIK.

> And all cars include a physical key as a backup entry method.

Which means you are safer with just keys rather than keys plus another way to open the doors.

> This was partially solved by adding another device that cuts off the engine, the immobilizer

If they key does not need to be physically inserted to start the engine (which is true in many cars) then that is liable to attack using the remotes too, right?

The two times I had a car break-in, it was purely physical. Once it was smashed glass, and the other someone pried open my door with a crowbar.