That's not really an issue, if you have enough polling stations. Denmark typically have elections on a Tuesday (but can technically be any day of the week). We have 80%+ turnout, one of the highest in the world, for countries without mandatory voting. The day of the week doesn't matter, IF you ensure that it sufficiently easy for people to vote.
If you actively try to make it inconvenient/impossible for people to vote, then it doesn't matter if it's on a Sunday. My take is that part of the US political system need as few voters as possible to turn up in order to have a chance of winning, so they will make it as complicated and inconvenient as they need it to be.
So show your drivers license at the voting booth? Why is that unacceptable?
If they just said "accept more IDs" instead of "stop voter ID requirements" people wouldn't think its a problem, but that isn't what democrats are saying.
People using others papers to vote, that is much harder if you must display a photo ID together with the papers you received that says you are allowed to vote.
Voting without an ID is like opening a bank account without an ID, its just dumb. Oh wait, I heard you had that as well in USA, which is why you have issues with identity theft...
Except every analysis has shown people are not doing this. Oddly, the few times there have been real cases, it's often GOP voting more than once or for their dead spouse or some such.
Think of it, if someone is truly not eligible to vote, why expose themselves to additional scrutiny for a single likely inconsequential vote?
Where fraud could happen is at scale, and with DOGE getting access to all systems and dismantling the agencies that guard against voting fraud, I feel that once again we're seeing that every accusation is an admission.
https://www.npr.org/2024/10/11/nx-s1-5147732/voter-fraud-exp...
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/reso...
It's another GOP boogie man used to suppress the vote. Personally, I'm a fan of legally mandating everyone vote or pay a fine like in Australia.
It would be different if we were solving a problem with voter ID laws because then you're balancing rights with real pragmatism. You can as hypothetical about it as you want, you can go down the slippery slope fallacy if you want, but the evidence shows us we do not have an issue here.
It would also be different if IDs were easier to come by, because then the burden is not disproportionate to the problem. But neither of these things are true.
Instead we're just enacting barriers to the use of our constitutional rights, barriers to participation in society, not to solve a problem but to enact a political end.
There's also additional requirements of your gender matching your ID (which eliminates many transgender folks), your name matching on all documents (good luck if you're a married woman), etc.
Folks are rightly pointing out that these laws are engineered to suppress votes, and you seem to not be willing to listen to understand why.
Are you saying democrats will engineer these laws to suppress votes? Is that why democrats don't have voter id laws? The GOP isn't relevant here, we are just wondering why democrat states can't seem to do this.
https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/research-reports/chal...
> Nearly 500,000 eligible voters do not have access to a vehicle and live more than 10 miles from the nearest state ID-issuing office open more than two days a week. Many of them live in rural areas with dwindling public transportation options. > More than 10 million eligible voters live more than 10 miles from their nearest state ID-issuing office open more than two days a week.
https://www.democracydocket.com/analysis/how-id-requirements...
> According to the study, between 15 and 18 million people in the U.S. lack access to documents proving their birth or citizenship, which can be integral to acquiring other forms of IDs.
This can force circular dependencies: for example, older black or Native American people who were born when they weren’t welcome at hospitals might never have been issued a birth certificate so they first need the travel, expense, and difficulty to get one from the clerk where they were born. Poor people are far more likely not to have bank accounts, so they can’t establish their in-state residency that way, etc.
None of these are insolvable problems but the people pushing restrictions haven’t been willing to put effort into solving them and often make things worse by cutting office locations and hours in ways which disproportionately impact poor and minority voters.
Because you have to have an ID to do almost everything else in the country so everybody already has an ID and opposition to voter ID makes no sense.
Also many states have accompanied their stricter voter ID requirements with reducing the number of offices that process applications and with reducing the hours they accept applications so that even if you can get a free ride to an office you might have to take an unpaid day off from work to do so. That can be a significant loss for many poor workers.
> Because you have to have an ID to do almost everything else in the country so everybody already has an ID and opposition to voter ID makes no sense.
Yet many millions get by without an ID [1]. A lot of things you probably think cannot be done without an ID actually can.
For example how can you cash a paycheck without an ID? You need an ID to open a bank account. An answer is you can cash checks using a third party endorsement. You don't need a bank for that. You just need a trusted friend who has a bank account. I'd guess that this is what the 6% of Americans without bank accounts do (23% among those making less than $25k/year) [2].
How about getting a job without ID? First, there are a lot of people who don't need jobs (e.g., the stay at home partner in a household where one partner works and the other takes care of the house). Second there are a lot of job that pay cash and are off the record.
Also there are a fair number of people who once had ID but no longer do. It has been a very long time since I've actually needed to show my driver's license to anyone.
My banking is all online, as is my check cashing (my bank has a great "deposit by photo" function).
When I signed up for Medicare, Medigap, and a Part D plan that was all through ssa.gov and medicare.gov, with no need to show ID. That was apparently all covered by when I showed ID years ago when I set up ID.me as a login method for my ssa.gov account. It will likely be the same when I apply for Social Security benefits. Afterwards all my interaction with SS and Medicare should be through ssa.gov and medicare.gov.
If when I'm older I am no longer fit to drive and let my driver's license expire and don't remember to get a state photo ID then there is a good chance I can live the rest of my life comfortably without ever running into anything where that causes problems.
The simplest way, though, to see that it is possible to get by reasonably well without an ID is to note the large number of undocumented workers that the current administration is trying to kick out. They are able to come here, find places to live, and get paying jobs all without a state issued photo ID.
Whatever they are doing citizens can do too.
[1] https://www.voteriders.org/analysis-millions-lack-voter-id/
[2] https://www.cnbc.com/2024/08/02/23percent-of-low-income-amer...
Seems to work fine. I dont think we have ever had any issues with that system.
It works because voting in Australia is compulsory. They must have your name on their list, they cross if off it and hand over the ballot paper. The checks and balances you might expect and done after the event, making it fairly secure.
Only of those checks is you did vote, and a fine follows if you didn't.
I work a furry convention in the Southern US, about 3% of our attendees have some ID related malady - can't get a timely appointment at DMV, missing core documentation, unable to prove residency, etc - nevermind rural voters who may live hours from a DMV.. which they can't get to without a license (assuming they can afford a car) or a ride. No bus service to speak of either.
Its a huge issue, I'd 100% support voter ID if getting an ID was free and easy, without it I'm skeptical.
I feel bad for the people in states that don't require court orders for this because they apparently have the worst time trying to update accounts.
Yeah, everyone you know has a valid ID because you don't live in a battleground state that is currently fighting electoral welfare. Republicans don't care to put up barriers to getting an ID in California, Texas or New York.
Do you think there's a chance there's a selection bias to your random sampling of the population?
Incidentally, there are many less privileged people around me and, let me tell you, they're not going to work on foot.
The selection bias of extrapolating an entire country (not to mention one as large and diverse as usa) by using your friend group should be very obvious.
Incidentally, my friends are much more likely to not need to drive at all (tech or otherwise who WFH) than the average person around me.
> live in a large city
Ah yes, large cities. Famous for their rural populations.
Wait, are you telling me that rural populations have less proclivity to drive?
FWIW googling, allegedly 1 in 10 people in rural america do not have a license. Or at least that is the claim floating around the internet. So yes, i think figuring out if this is a real issue should include both checking on rural and urban people, along with many other demographics. It is not obvious how this situation differs between urban/rural.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2016/feb/19/john-olive...
> driver's license
Republicans are trying to make it so that the vast majority of drivers' licenses do not work either. You may have to get a new one, with passport-level paperwork.
[1] https://cdce.umd.edu/sites/cdce.umd.edu/files/pubs/Voter%20I...
[2] https://papersplease.org/wp/2024/06/07/who-lacks-id-in-ameri...
In other words, it's not "people need driver's licenses to vote".
Trump changed voting rules to require proof of citizenship[1].
Disenfranchising 21 million voters makes sense now, no?
[0] https://www.brennancenter.org/our-work/analysis-opinion/213-...
[1] https://edition.cnn.com/2025/03/25/politics/voting-proof-of-...
I have never met a single person in my life that doesn't have a government ID. Have you? They never drove a car? Bought alcohol? Gotten on an airplane? Forget having a bank account, they've never cashed a check? Maybe they are so poor they have never had a check, but wait, collecting food stamps requires a government ID card. Having a job requires two forms of ID! If they are disabled they need an ID to collect disability checks. If they are old they need an ID to use medicare.
Everything requires an ID, I've never met anyone who didn't have an ID, and I've never met anyone who claimed to actually know someone personally that didn't have an ID.
It's completely ridiculous and stupid, but go ahead piva00, if 10% of people don't have an ID card you should be able to rattle off a name or a thousand. Where are they? What do they do all day?
Edit: this is getting downvoted, but nobody is even willing to claim to know a single person without an ID card
Edit: aredox: https://chatgpt.com/share/67ee42f4-9b4c-8006-aad9-ce3b275ec5...
>Name one person who can legally vote but was prevented from voting from this.
Literally thousands of people were barred to vote by last-minute voting roll purges. Virginia, Georgia...
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/eligib...
On top of that, making vote more difficult through technicalities (voter roll purges, increased friction to vote, increased uncertainty if one can vote and will be punished if not eligible due to a technicality, etc.) further tilts the scale of who votes or not, either being barred by technicalities or fear.
None of that has any place in a real democracy, if democratic values are to be uphold it should be as easy as possible for any eligible voter to exercise their vote if they so wish.
You want anecdotes to fight against statistics, I think you got stuff reversed there, mate...
Edit: ah, lol, I think I need to repeat your own words back to you:
> This is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_ignorance and is also asking someone else to prove nonexistence of a situation.
Do you know anyone in your country who doesn't have a state issued ID card? It's simply not true that 10% of people lack a state ID, it's absolute fiction made up for political reasons. If you bother to look it up (of course you can't be bothered) you would find that it comes from a single phone poll which they then extrapolated using census data. It's beyond dubious.
> None of that has any place in a real democracy, if democratic values are to be uphold it should be as easy as possible for any eligible voter to exercise their vote if they so wish.
So Norway isn't a real democracy? Ireland? Germany? Sweden? Netherlands? Italy? India? Greece? Why aren't you on their forums calling them fake democracies?
It's very easy to go find made up statistics published by political groups. I could go find a 'statistic' that says 98% of people in the US have IDs. In fact, here: https://www.fhwa.dot.gov/policyinformation/statistics/2019/p...
The US highway administration says that 102% of driving age individuals in 3 US states have valid driver's licenses. 102%. That's a statistic published by the government. Don't try to explain to me that "you can't have more than 100%" because that's just an anecdote, mate. You have to just believe whatever the statistic says.
Where I live right now it's simply impossible because it's required to have an ID, we are also 10 million people so it's pretty easy to not fall into the cracks.
Back in my native country (Brazil), yes, I do know people who did not have any form of documentation up to when they died, like my great-grandfather, or a former's colleague grandmother.
> It's simply not true that 10% of people lack a state ID, it's absolute fiction made up for political reasons.
It's not about state IDs, read the fucking thing I posted, it's about "proof of citizenship" which 10% of the population does not have ready access for it, and rules have been changed for voters needing proof of citizenship, learn to read before spouting vitriol, please.
> So Norway isn't a real democracy? Ireland? Germany? Sweden? Netherlands? Italy? India? Greece? Why aren't you on their forums calling them fake democracies?
Here in Sweden is really easy to vote, nothing even close to what the US does to its voter rolls, or states deciding to purge them right before elections to tilt the scales, etc.
You simply are talking past through me, it's clear as day that people in the USA who want to vote many times cannot vote, you live there so probably have read more articles about this happening than I ever did. That is a problem, it's a fact, and it's used for political manipulation, 10% of the population will have increased friction to exercise their right to vote, that's simply anti-democratic, plain and simple :)
The hypocrisy here is astonishing. You are fine with your country requiring an ID but not mine. I think it's really telling that everyone on this thread is concerned with letting people vote without an ID, but nobody is saying we should try to help get people IDs because without an ID your life must be a complete shambles and they have no access to many basic government benefits or just basic things in life.
A state ID is proof of citizenship. There is no federal ID card in the US. I'm sorry, you shouldn't express opinions on these things when you clearly don't have basic understanding of what is going on.
> You simply are talking past through me, it's clear as day that people in the USA who want to vote many times cannot vote
Right, that is what the media puts out there, but it never actually happens. That's why I said it must be easy to find at least one actual person who couldn't vote, because supposedly there are so many. I've never met one nor heard of one. In the worst case they give you a 'provisional' ballot and in the event the election is close enough they check each one to see if that person was qualified to vote before counting it, but they ALWAYS let you vote. I had to do a provisional ballot in Santa Cruz, California (one of the most liberal cities in the US) to vote for Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primary. It's not uncommon, but they NEVER turn anyone away from voting. I'm sorry, but you just have absolute ignorance here.
Basically you need very specific letters where your exact name and address must match but those are issued without checking. So if one uses your middle initial instead of your name then no ID for you until you get it reissued.
In Texas they have a shortage of staff issuing the ids too so there is a 3 month delay after you apply to find out what you did incorrectly https://www.statesman.com/story/opinion/columns/2024/08/19/t...
Simplest answer is they don't care, wash their hands off of the whole thing and then democrats complain that it's the requirement to identify voters that block them. But it's not a strange requirement, it's as you say, a completely normal part of being a citizen to get an ID, and a duty for a voting citizen to do what they need to do to get that ballot in.
And even if black people were somehow disenfranchised from getting IDs, it doesn't prevent the non-black people to vote rationally, in the end. So no excuse.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/eligib...
As a black American who had crackheads in my family, I don't know anyone who was totally incapable of getting an ID card. I only ever see the argument brought up by white people on the Internet. Tyranny of low expectations. Heaven forbid that black adults be expected to shoulder some personal responsibility and figure out how to meet the basic requirements to exercise their civic duties, same as white people.
"The white liberal is the worst enemy to America, and the worst enemy to the black man." -- Malcom X
My mother's side of my family is from North Philadelphia, same state as the first black woman featured in this video.
I spent three weeks in the US in 2021 when my mother had a psychotic breakdown and I had to put her life back together on short notice. She had lost her wallet and all ID. I got her a brand new birth certificate in Philadelphia and a NJ State ID to replace her Driver's License. This required setting up some appointments either online or via phone, and bringing some documents along, but it was manageable.
Expecting someone to have original birth certificate, SSN proof, and spouse's death certificate is....normal adult document management. I deal with a similar "burden of proof" every time I go to my local Japanese city office, or to immigration to renew our residency.
The next anecdote in the segment blasts Sauk City, Wisconsin for the ID center being closed on most days. According to Copilot, Sauk City is 96% white, with a median household income over $78,000 and a population of less than 4000. So a small middle class town of white people rarely has the ID office open? How is that supposed to support the argument that mandatory ID requirements disproportionately affect minorities again?
The second half of the John Oliver clip focuses on the voting events not the identification acquisition problem so I don't consider that part relevant and won't dissect it.
So it always blew my mind Americans split themselves in random colors (especially the hispanics, like, why) and enrages me the self-described "whites" are so dismissive of the ability of "black people" to be, like, completely normal and boring and able to get whatever form is needed to vote...
Our ID department has buses with computers and cameras/fingerprint machines on them, they go to remote villages and stuff and take everyone's bio data, then return a few weeks later and give everyone their cards.
There is literally NO valid excuse for NOT implementing voter ID.
NONE.
If we can do it, the richest country in the world can do it.
Such a pathetic hill for American Democratic party to die on.
I think democrats started out with good intentions, helping enfranchise black voters a part of the civil rights act .... but somehow they have made it their morality point and refuse to accept that it is no longer fit for purpose.
They should made no voter-ID a temporary measure and created proper voter-IS systems in the meanwhile.
Democratic states collect taxes and implement policy independently, they CAN do this, at least in their own areas.
Start there first!
Start small, but START. Start from Democrats accepting what every LEFT leaning person the rest of the world accepts: Photo ID is necessary, not to reduce voter fraud or whatever, but necessary to increase TRUST in the system.
It's a cost, just pay it. Yes you will lose 'face' to republicans, don't care.
Start small, start with free/cheap photo ID in deep democratic cities (I know local govt providing service, what an idea!).
Once saturation reaches 80% plus, start enforcing voter ID laws to cajole the last 20% to start applying, carrot and stick. Start offering door-step service for those unable.
Democrats pay taxes, don't they? start using them.
Spread to other cities in democratic states. So what if it takes 10-20 year? Times passes like nothing.
And once you have SET the standard of cheap, reliable access to Photo ID... and when democrats in power in the federal government again, they can use that to help implement cheap photo ID elsewhere, but even if Missouri doesn't get voter ID, it doesn't excuse democratic states NOT having it.
The fact that the DMV is only open three days a month or whatever? If it's a democrat led city, FIX it. If it's a republican city, you can come to it later.
But NOT starting, as some sort of fake 'rights' issue? Bullship.
Start. Start Small, Start NOW. in 25 years you won't even remember this.
That sounds like it would be way easier if those people had id's...
It is an Anglo-American thing not to have PhotoID probably related to never been invaded in the last two hundred years.
The issue is that to get back in power the Democrats need votes top overturn Republicans and so the IDs in Republican states matter those in Democrat states do not. So better top show full disapproval as they won't lose any seats over that and can keep some pressure up.
Some people in the UK had the same 'oh no we are being outnumbers' sort of mentality, and without mandatory ID, they had no sane voice in their head to tell them 'don't be silly, we track people with cards'.
It's funny how much the existence of the card gives the masses a weird sense of peace.
The population WANTS this piece of bigotry, heck our ancestors voted for the damn thing it, it's literally the 2nd amendment of our the constitution.
You can't blame NADRA for including it in their forms, they do it on government demand. Heck, I had to sign the damn thing to get my damn passport, there is no escaping it.
But NADRA also has vans that go village by village providing photo-ID on the doorstep. And THAT is accessibility.
Do I wish this piece of bigotry wasn't in on our forms? Yes. Today Ahmedis; tomorrow Shias; day after who knows, it might be me.
Does it mean CNIC are BAD? NO, they are perhaps the only actually part of cour damn governance, being able to provide ID.
We could obviously do better, but NOT having ID is crazy.
There's no "government comes to you" to give you an ID. And, many Democrats would love to make it easier to get an ID, but the Republicans often deliberately make it harder to get an ID.
They shut down offices and reduce hours of locations, so people have to travel farther and take more time off work. They increase the bureaucratic requirements and hurdles, so people are more likely to need to take multiple trips.
I personally wouldn't have a problem with making a voter ID a requirement to vote, if we could also agree to make it as easy as you describe to get an ID. The problem is the GOP wants to require getting a voter ID and simultaneously make it harder to get an ID.
This in fact exposes the heart of American democratic failures: Even in states with Democratic city/state majority.... things don't work.
If some one in Missouri can't get ID, ok, that's a republican state... but if a person in New York or California can't get ID.... whose fault is it? It's all democrats as far as the eye can see.
They run/fund the DMVs, not the feds, they collect taxes and implement policy, so why can't THEY do it?
I am not an american, I don't have time for these petty excuses.
It's not that you don't have time for the excuses. It's that you are chiming in on a system you know nothing about and simply swallowing the propoganda that you read online.
If your mayor is actively undermining your ability to get an ID in order to surpress your vote, what does "holding him responsible mean"? And if your mayor is doing this at the behest of a billion dollar superpac that has run the number and realized that if they could get 1% reduction in opposition votes by implementing voter ID laws, what is lower class person to do?
It's incredibly easy to get an ID in democratic states, and the voter ID laws aren't about targeting states like California. They almost always target battleground states like Wisconsin where there are billions of dollars spent in TV ads. If you could guarantee that your opponent could like 2-3% of the vote by spending 1 billion dollars on Voter ID bullshit vs spending 10 billion on TV ads, what would you choose?
Electoral warfare is far more salient in US politics than in Pakistan - or any other country. The Heritage Foundation (one of the largest republican think tanks) already confirms that voter fraud is a non-issue - but billion dollar PACs have managed to convince a pakistani on the other side of the world that Voter ID is a real issue. You should ask yourself why you - a pakistani - has such strong feelings about Voter ID when Voter Fraud is completely a non-issue when both political sides look at the data.
Is it that Voter ID is a real issue, or has the billions being spent on making us think it's an issue bled into the media you consume as well?
Because as I said somewhere else in this post, when americans are unhappy, they spread their frustration on the entire world with a shovel.
And when I see that this frustration arises from something as stupid as voter ID, I wonder why they don't just fix it. I am not interested in the actual voter fraud numbers or some random foundation... I am interested in YOU guys being happy. And if (a sufficient number of) YOU believe in voter fraud, then for ffs, get voter ID, we all have it, why can't you?
It's like with the kids' blankie to save them from the monster under the bed, don't argue about the probability of bed monsters, understand the frankly low cost of providing the blankie, realise it's not worth quibbling about and just GIVE IT TO THEM.
It isn't about about voter fraud, it's about trust in the system. When americans don't feel trust in the system, they are unhappy. And when they are unhappy, they are often distracted by their elected leaders by other things.... things that affect the entire world, like tariffs or wars.
I don't speak about Brazilian issues, not because they don't affect us (we import soybeans from them which affects chicken prices, for example) but the effect is less... catastrophic.... but a Texan sneezes, I get the flu here.
It's part of the curse of being the world hegemon.
I'm not explaining this just for you - but anyone else reading this post. Here is a video from Paul Weyrich, a highly influential republican, in the 1980s discussing why voter turn out should be reduced: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fR4wxlCGIu0
The symptoms are "trust in the system", "voter id" and "voter fraud". The PROBLEM is one major political party has found it extremely advantageous to ensure as few people vote as possible. If every American got voter ID tomorrow, republicans would simply invent a new issue to manufacture distrust in the system in order to suppress votes. Then another pakistani/european/canadian will be flabbergasted as to why American just don't do X and how all their friends do X everyday.
That's why I'm saying the problem is complex. You are viewing the problem as "Americans just won't adopt voter ID", and on it's face you are probably confused as to why a country as rich as America can't do Voter ID. What I'm saying the problem is that it is actually financially and politically advantageous for one party so sow distrust in the voting process (and this isn't some leftist conspiracy, this is openly admitted by them). Once you understand that you will see why Voter ID is so salient. It's not that we can't do Voter ID, its that Voter ID is the current boogeyman to sow distrust and if that is ever solved, we will simply invent a new problem in order to suppress voters.
Our government and population WANT to disenfranchise them, we WANT to be bigoted against them, and if photo-ID didn't exist, voter rolls STILL exist and then we would use THOSE to lynch them or whatever.
When it's America, then it's somehow different. I even laid it out for you clearly that republicans WANT to disenfranchise them, but your prescription is that we need a 25 year plan to offer photo IDs on the cheap.
>and if photo-ID didn't exist, voter rolls STILL exist and then we would use THOSE to lynch them or whatever.
The irony in telling Americans to build a 25 year plan to roll out photo ID when they don't even solve issues for your government. Do you not see how foolish it is to tell Americans to spend time solving a problem that YOU KNOW won't solve the issue of government targeted disenfranchisement? You wrote 500 odd words telling Americans to build a system you just admitted doesn't work to solve the underlying problem.
They don't solve issue for us because we deliberate include the bigotry into the system.
We are bigoted regardless of voter ID.
But it does solve problems for other countries, like the actually leftist countries in Europe etc.
And it could solve problems for you.
Just because we are 3rd world hell-hole doesn't negate the effectiveness of voter-ID.
We choose to puncture our tyres, doesn't negate the effectiveness of wheels.
And?
I am sorry, you fear.... governing? Because that's what life is. You fix one issue, some other arises.
The issue is NOT complex, let's admit it... you just don't want to lose 'face'. You have hitched yourself to the no-ID bandwagon for so long it kills you to admit it was wrong.
Democrats are trying to pretend something is a civil rights issue which NO left-leaning politician the rest of the world considers it to be so. TRUST in the system is paramount, this why Trump is in the office, it seems american citizens trust him more than they trust democrats.
It's a governance/bureaucratic issue. But as the guest on Jon Stewart's podcast said[1], democrats just can't govern.
Any other person would think of it a 25-year plan and start NOW. Start small, start with the most democratic cities in democratic states, and start offering photo ID on the cheap, on the doorstep. Use all those taxes you collect for it. Then move on to other cities in the democratic state, then slowly move outward.
Maybe one day you will again hold the federal government and then you can use the learning from that to help implement it elsewhere... and even if red states don't implement, at least you will have started something good, and you will have something to PRESENT.
But don't mind me, I am just going to spend sometime just trying to understand how trump's tariffs affect us (29%!!!), I feel I will be facing some severe shortages soon.
Please explain to me clearly where I was wrong? What is the problem you have identified and the solution that I gave that was incorrect?
This rest of the text you posted is a massive non-sequitor. I identified to you that (1) there is no voter fraud problem (2) voter ID would not fix anything except cost the government more money and (3) it's a false claim made to disenfranchise voters.
Please clearly, explain whats wrong, backed with relevant data about voter fraud instead of waffling about Ezra Klein and John Stewart on a completely different issue.
>I am sorry, you fear.... governing?
I fear spending money trying to solve a made up problem. Something you pretended to care about when you brought up Ezra Klein. Except in the case of Voter ID you oppose Ezra Klein and you actually want to spend money doing bullshit that solves nothing. Please identify what is actually solved that is worth someone spending 25 years of their life handing out voter IDs.
Ah I see.
But yes, I agree, it is a pathetic problem for a 1st world country to have - just sort it out.
absolutely not! we have had massive migrations both from India (after independence) and Afghanistan (after the russian occupation). This is NOT a given.
Things have NOT been easy... and in fact dare I say, our ID department is rather dumb and stupid. I personally have had MULTIPLE issues with them.
But we have been doing SOMETHING, and the fact that the US doesn't... is insane.
When a child is born, the parent has to get them registered at the local council office. And then when my first card was made at 18, my dad went with me as verification, he attested that I was child #X as per the family tree, they confirmed someone with my name was in that family tree in their records, and used that as verification for me.
If parents are not available they can use relatives, as long as there is a family tree link. Not sure how they do it otherwise, but there is some system for refugees etc too.
Now imagine the opposite. A government that’s not interested but rather is motivated in denying some people an ID. Why it increases that’s party likelihood of staying in power.
https://youtu.be/rHFOwlMCdto?si=OjoxCfE1noxvw3Fz
And you need to do paperwork, which means you have to pay and find time. How do people with 2 or 3 jobs do?
https://hedgescompany.com/blog/2024/01/number-of-licensed-dr...
So forgive me for being flippant but....how hard can it be?
>>How do people with 2 or 3 jobs do?
I assume they drive to those 3 jobs, so they somehow found a way.Again, sorry for being dismissive, and I appreciate it might be time consuming at costly - but still, 91% of all American adults have found a way to do this, so my point is that driving licences(along other documents) seem like a perfectly acceptable form of ID for voting?
Where did you hear this? When I lived in Pennsylvania, it was really easy to get a state ID. Just go into the DMV, show them your documents, pay the fee ($42 now), and you have your ID within the hour. They had centers all around the city, and they're open on Saturdays. Personally, I think this is an extremely weird hill for Democrats to want to die on. Most independent and swing voters think its a reasonable requirement.
As a European I also find insane elections are held on workdays (in France it is always on Sundays), that you may have to wait in line for hours to vote, that voting stations may be hours from where you live, etc.