News for hackers. Stuff that matters.
Re:Succinct Data Structures by SoftTalker on Thursday March 06, 2025 @07:29PM (#43286452)
Well not literally.
Re:Succinct Data Structures by penguin_booze on Friday March 07, 2025 @03:10AM (#43288162)
Well, literally doesn't mean literally anymore--literally.
Re:Succinct Data Structures by gwd on Friday March 07, 2025 @04:19AM (#43288543)
It never has, it always will. We've already lost a host of words that meant "I'm not exaggerating, I actually mean it": "really", "very", etc. I'm going to keep up the fight.
Re:Succinct Data Structures by Zecc on Friday March 07, 2025 @04:55AM (#43288787)
Since there are _literally_ people who use, and have been using for a while, the word without the same exact meaning as we both agree on... well.

Having said that, I will join you in this fight.

See also: exponentially.

Re:Succinct Data Structures by bee_rider on Friday March 07, 2025 @10:19AM (#43290848)
“Exponentially” and “quantum” are the only language hills I’d die on.
Re:Succinct Data Structures by nxobject on Friday March 07, 2025 @07:31PM (#43296325)
Why a quantum leap isn’t the length of an Ångstrom will always sadden me. I’m sure there are other scientific concepts you can use to describe a Great Leap Forward…
Re:Succinct Data Structures by Quekid5 on Saturday March 08, 2025 @08:49AM (#43300222)
I think the Quantum Leap expression can also be understood as a "step" with no intermediate stages, i.e. very abrupt or transformative.
Re:Succinct Data Structures by gwd on Friday March 07, 2025 @03:58PM (#43294570)
Language is defined by its speakers, as basically a "vote". I'm going to keep voting for "literally" meaning "this actually happened" as long as it's practical, because 1) there are dozens of other ways to emphasize something 2) we need some way to say "this is not an exaggeration".
Re:Succinct Data Structures by gwd on Friday March 07, 2025 @04:23AM (#43288561)
The moreso that those things don't even figuratively set my mind on fire.
Re:Succinct Data Structures by sitkack on Friday March 07, 2025 @11:47AM (#43291712)
What about metaphorically?
Re:Succinct Data Structures by dspillett on Friday March 07, 2025 @07:21AM (#43289577)
Many dictionaries now list one common use of “literally” as meaning “figuratively, with emphasis”. So literally officially sometimes now literally means figuratively.

I suspect some people are literally having conniption fits about this…

Re:Succinct Data Structures by cowsandmilk on Friday March 07, 2025 @07:54AM (#43289773)
I’m sorry, but your comment mixes two different types of dictionaries. You talk about “official” meanings which would be a prescriptive dictionary telling you the way you are allowed to use a word. But the dictionaries that include “figuratively” in their definitions are clearly descriptive, presenting all the ways words are commonly used.

You can’t take a descriptive dictionary and then claim it is prescriptive.

Re:Succinct Data Structures by brandly on Friday March 07, 2025 @09:54AM (#43290659)
But “official” is defined in descriptive dictionaries to include descriptive dictionaries.
Re:Succinct Data Structures by bee_rider on Friday March 07, 2025 @10:09AM (#43290756)
There aren’t prescriptive dictionaries for (American, at least) English.
Re:Succinct Data Structures by dspillett on Friday March 07, 2025 @11:14AM (#43291388)
There are no prescriptive dictionaries, at least not correct ones, for living languages.

IIRC both the OED and CED list figurative uses for the word, do you know any publications considered more authoritative than those for English? Webster too, for those who prefer simplified English.

Re:Succinct Data Structures by ForTheKidz on Friday March 07, 2025 @11:21AM (#43291456)
I think French has prescriptive dictionaries (to varying degrees of success)
Re:Succinct Data Structures by dspillett on Friday March 07, 2025 @11:37AM (#43291610)
They have Académie Française which intends to control the language to an extent, in recent times focussing a lot on resisting then encroachment of English word and phrases, but IIRC their recommendations don't carry as much weight as many think and are often ignored even by government departments and other official French bodies.

The Académie do publish a dictionary every few decades though, there was a new edition recently, so there is a prescriptive dictionary for French even though it carries little weight in reality.

French is the only living language to attempt it to this extent, though the existence of one is enough to make my “there are none for living languages” point incorrect. It is difficult to pin a language down until no one really speaks it day-to-day (so it doesn't evolve at the rates commonly used languages do).

Re:Succinct Data Structures by throwaway290 on Friday March 07, 2025 @11:29PM (#43297513)
Re:Succinct Data Structures by dspillett on Saturday March 08, 2025 @05:11AM (#43298973)
Very few of those have official force or cover much more than a subset of language properties (i.e. spelling rules), but definitely more than the "none" of my original assertion.
Re:Succinct Data Structures by throwaway290 on Sunday March 09, 2025 @05:29AM (#43307600)
"prescriptive" does not mean "have legal force" though...
Re:Succinct Data Structures by cycomanic on Friday March 07, 2025 @09:48PM (#43297065)
The Duden is prescriptive for German AFAIK.
Re:Succinct Data Structures by davidcalloway on Saturday March 08, 2025 @01:03AM (#43297875)
Isn't this more of a cultural thing, that Germans seem to agree that it is authoritative and use it as a reference?

I'm not sure what would even make a dictionary prescriptive other than an explicit declaration that it is so or, ridiculously, a law declaring the same.

Re:Succinct Data Structures by throwaway290 on Friday March 07, 2025 @11:25PM (#43297495)
> There are no prescriptive dictionaries, at least not correct ones, for living languages.

there are no 100% correct descriptive dictionaries. Any prescriptive dictionary is automatically correct.

Re:Succinct Data Structures by dspillett on Saturday March 08, 2025 @05:15AM (#43298993)
> Any prescriptive dictionary is automatically correct.

… in the view of their compilers.

I could write a prescriptive dictionary far more easily than I could get others to accept it as correct.

Re:Succinct Data Structures by throwaway290 on Sunday March 09, 2025 @05:31AM (#43307606)
If you write a prescriptive dictionary it is correct because you are dictating the norms not describing what is real.

Yes you would have to be involved with a regulatory institution first

Re:Succinct Data Structures by computably on Wednesday March 12, 2025 @03:34AM (#43340715)
Right, just like every law is automatically just. /s
Re:Succinct Data Structures by throwaway290 on Thursday March 13, 2025 @01:19AM (#43350593)
If it's not just then change the law!
Re:Succinct Data Structures by soulofmischief on Friday March 07, 2025 @02:27PM (#43293468)
I'm sorry, can you point to such a prescriptive dictionary? People can talk however they please, and dictionaries are tasked with keeping up with the vernacular.

The "literally" ship sailed centuries ago. Sorry, but that battle has been lost. Even so-called "prescriptive" dictionaries would be categorically incorrect if they ignore nearly three centuries of common vernacular.