NATO's whining about being peace-loving strictly defensive union is pure bullshit propaganda.
Ukraine wanted to exterminate its citizens, who happened to be ethnically Russian and who dared to demand rights to continue speaking in their native, non-ukrainian, language. Ukraine wanted to do this using nazi battalions (just you google pictures of Azov battalion combatants being covered in Nazi swastikas), but, oops, alas, they are getting actively denazified now.
A defensive pact provides weapons to a country defending itself. What is so hard to understand? Not to mention that actual NATO countries are afraid that Putin won't stop on Ukraine, he would absolutely attack Poland next - there were many russian comments to this effect over the years. So again, it is a defensive pact acting.....in defense.
>>Ukraine wanted to exterminate its citizens, who happened to be ethnically Russian and who dared to demand rights to continue speaking in their native, non-ukrainian, language.
Dude you need to lay off Russian propaganda for a minute. But you know what really happens? Russia forcibly issuing native Ukrainians with Russian passports to say "look these are russian citizens now, we need to defend them!" and kidnapping Ukrainian children to forcibly integrate them into Russian society. Not to mention all of the murder and rape, but that's standard fare for the Russian army.
>>Just you google pictures of Azov battalion combatants being covered in Nazi swastikas)
Yes, Azov batallions were a huge problem in Ukraine.....and they got completely eliminated and people put behind bars before the original 2014 invasion. It was a bullshit reason then and it's a bullshit reason now.
Whom was Ukraine defending by killing people in its own Donbass and Lugansk regions? Surely not the people living there, as the bullets and rockets were flying towards them from Ukrainian soldiers.
> Not to mention that actual NATO countries are afraid that Putin won't stop on Ukraine
It looks like it's better if they in fact fear that. Less wars that way. If only they stayed neutral, not anti-Russia. But no, they all wanted to provoke the bear for some reason.
Well, hear it roar now.
> Dude you need to lay off Russian propaganda for a minute. But you know what really happens? Russia forcibly issuing native Ukrainians with Russian passports to say "look these are russian citizens now, we need to defend them!" and kidnapping Ukrainian children to forcibly integrate them into Russian society. Not to mention all of the murder and rape, but that's standard fare for the Russian army.
Dude, you need to lay off Ukrainian propaganda for a minute. But you know what really happens? Russia gives money, homes and jobs to the people that voluntarily agree to relocate to it. No one is forces to. And there are lots of reports from those people being thankful to Russia and condemning Kyiv and Zelensky, because what in fact happened is that it was Kyiv that either targeted those civilians or used them as a shield (lots of videos of Ukrainian combatants taking positions right next to houses full of civilians).
How can anyone forcibly issue a passport to someone? Just try to think from time to time. Children get evacuated to safe zones. Of course the safes zones are in Russia now, but no one is held prisoner/captive - they are free to move wherever they like whenever they like. You just painted a humanitarian mission as terrorists kidnapping children. That's just disgusting.
> Yes, Azov batallions were a huge problem in Ukraine.....and they got completely eliminated and people put behind bars before the original 2014 invasion.
Lol what? Who eliminated them? Could you give a few links to the news where Ukrainian officials imprisoned any Azov combatants for their nazism and nazist swastika tattoos?
As far as I know - they were mostly killed in battles between 2014 and now by separatists and Russians. Ukraine never reprimanded any of their nazi battalions for wearing swastikas. They never prohibited their 'trezubets' (trident) SS nazi symbol of that battalion and nazi 'black sun' symbol (that is just quite common among nazis, not especially Ukrainian ones).
How can anyone forcibly issue a passport to someone?
Maybe the bear should stay within its borders. No one provoked Russia to do anything.
>>How can anyone forcibly issue a passport to someone? Just try to think from time to time.
You deny them any services until they apply for a Russian passport as again, we know happened.
>>Russia gives money, homes and jobs to the people that voluntarily agree to relocate to it. No one is forces to. And there are lots of reports from those people being thankful to Russia and condemning Kyiv and Zelensk
You're free to gaslight yourself into believing this along with the rest of complete lunacy in your post.
>>Children get evacuated to safe zones.
If you think this is what happens you're drinking the Russian cool aid swallowing the straw along with it.
You were told not to come close, but you didn't listen.
> You deny them any services until they apply for a Russian passport as again, we know happened.
Honestly, that's news to me. That sounds believable, but do you have any good links supporting that claim? To some credible sources, with first-hand interviews, not just Ukrainian news that are known to post bullshit propaganda and hoax like 'bucha'.
It's not what this site is for, and destroys what it is for.
Because they're providing weapons for Ukraine to DEFEND ITSELF. This is the fundamental problem with Russian propagandist: you think that defending oneself from Russian attacks is somehow aggression toward Russia. Do you attack your neighbor for building a fence?
Ukraine wanted to exterminate its citizens, who happened to be ethnically Russian and who dared to demand rights to continue speaking in their native, non-ukrainian, language.
This is complete nonsense, and pure Russian propaganda. Ukraine's biggest mistake was allowing so many ethnic Russians to settle in Crimea in the first place.
Leading up to the 2014 invasion, Russia transmitted false "news" propaganda, in Russian, talking about how Nazis were marching in Kiev. It was a complete fabrication, but the gullible, ethnic Russians ate it up. That's why the 2014 invasion was bloodless. Lying propaganda.
but, oops, alas, they are getting actively denazified now.
Are they planning to get around to that after they finish raping and murdering civilians[1]? After they steal and relocate Ukrainian children, as part of their plan to exterminate the Ukrainian cultural identity[2]? After they finish destroying Ukrainian cultural sites, another strategy for wiping out Ukrainian identity[3]? When is this "denazification" going to start, Russian propagandist?
[1] https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bucha_massacre
[2] https://www.hrw.org/news/2023/05/25/fresh-details-russias-fo...
[3] https://www.government.nl/latest/weblogs/the-work-of-the-min...
Russia loves using this logic, which is completely bonkers. Just try to think from time to time?
Now what's important is when some region has mere fractures of a percent vs when its something like 25%. If your country has 25% Russians and you oppress them - I think Russia has obligation to defend them.
That's exactly what it is and I have no idea what sort of insane, convoluted logic you use to come up with any other idea.
but then it turns out that its arms can be used OUTSIDE of that block
Ohhhh, I see. You believe that defending from an invading force means that you can't attack anything beyond the border? So Russia could just build an ammunition factory right across the border and Ukraine is somehow morally bound not to attack it? Completely insane.
First NATO expanded, and then Russia started defending itself on the territory of Ukraine.
I think you are either trolling or just have bugs in your logic.
Anyways, as fun as it was - I think it's time to stop arguing, it's as useless, as always. Everyone applies double standards (I probably do so too, unfortunately), no one's going to change their position.
NATO is a defensive pact. Putin invaded Ukraine because he wants their port, arable land, and because he wants to go down in history as "reuniting" the Russian empire. Also, Russia has wanted to exterminate the Ukrainian cultural identity, which they've tried to do since before the Soviet Union:
https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/russias-i...
Putin's whining about NATO is pure bullshit propaganda. Just like his claims of Nazis in Ukraine. It's all fiction, where he writes Russia as the victim.