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Re:Police arrest apparent leader of cultlike 'Zizian' group ... by lupusreal on Monday February 17, 2025 @07:45PM (#43084782)
> following a traffic stop, United States Border Patrol agent David Maland was killed in a shootout with Teresa Youngblut, who was wounded, and German national Ophelia Bauckholt, who also died in the shootout. The pair were traveling south on Interstate 91 in Coventry, Vermont, when they were pulled over as part of a traffic stop.[1] The two were put under "periodic surveillance" nearly one week before the shooting after they were reported to be armed and wearing all-black tactical clothing when checking in to their hotel.

So these guys were being surveilled for being armed and decked out in tactical gear, so the authorities send in a lone traffic cop to pull them over? And predictably, the cop is killed.

This isn't the first time I've heard of this kind of thing happening. That agent was basically set up to die, sacrificed like a pawn by his superiors playing a sick game of chess. The same thing happened to Darian Jarott, who was directed by his boss to arrest an armed and dangerous meth smuggler without being briefed of the danger, despite the fact that the danger was clearly understood by his superiors (a tactical team with medics were stationed nearby, but Jarott was sent in alone without knowledge of this.) The meth smuggler stepped out of his truck with an AR-15, taking Jarott completely by surprise, and murdered him. The meth smuggler was then chased down and killed by the other officers and agents.

Re:Police arrest apparent leader of cultlike 'Zizian' group ... by aerostable_slug on Monday February 17, 2025 @08:12PM (#43084996)
For what purpose?

Do you think that if the meth smuggler had been met by two or more officers he would have acted differently?

Re:Police arrest apparent leader of cultlike 'Zizian' group ... by lupusreal on Monday February 17, 2025 @08:22PM (#43085075)
They had a whole tactical team available but sent in one guy, unbriefed, to make a traffic stop. For what purpose, if not to draw out a violent reaction so the rest of them could jump right to the part where they get to chase a cop killer rather than a mere smuggler? They cynically engineered a scenario where they got to feel heroic with minimal personal risk, by first sending one of their own to his death.

They didn't even tell the guy to expect a violent reaction. Of course they didn't, because if they had he would have rightly refused.

Re:Police arrest apparent leader of cultlike 'Zizian' group ... by nkurz on Monday February 17, 2025 @09:05PM (#43085334)
I appreciate the info, hadn't heard about the Jarott case, and I hadn't considered this possible angle. That said, I don't think Maland was alone when he was shot. Details haven't been released, but the initial reporting was clear that multiple officers were involved.

Here for example is the AP: "Youngblut got out and opened fire on Maland and other officers without warning, the FBI said. Bauckholt tried to draw a gun but was shot, according to the affidavit. At least one border agent fired on Youngblut and Bauckholt, but authorities haven’t specified whose bullets hit whom."

https://apnews.com/article/vermont-border-patrol-shooting-wh...

Have you seen any later reporting that contradicts this?

Re:Police arrest apparent leader of cultlike 'Zizian' group ... by MichaelZuo on Monday February 17, 2025 @08:49PM (#43085256)
How is this more plausible then any of the alternative explanations?

e.g. the decision makers could be incompetent, they might not care that much, they had some other contradicting information not publicly revealed, etc…

Re:Police arrest apparent leader of cultlike 'Zizian' group ... by ashoeafoot on Tuesday February 18, 2025 @01:35AM (#43086701)
They? There is no they. No plan. No conspiracy . Just a guy who gets up in the morning to write speeding tickets to fill a counties chest, while also filter feeding for outstanding warrants running into two armed psychos.The observation team (aka sigint fat dude) has zero connection to the traffic cop.
Re:Police arrest apparent leader of cultlike 'Zizian' group ... by lupusreal on Tuesday February 18, 2025 @06:17AM (#43088301)
At least in the case of Darian Jarott, he absolutely was directed by his boss to pull over the smuggler. "A State Police supervisor had asked Jarrott to pull over Cueva-Felix at the behest of federal agents" https://apnews.com/article/officer-killed-new-mexico-highway...

In the case of David Maland, the chance of it being a completely normal "traffic stop" by a federal border patrol agent (who's job is not to fill the counties chest by writing tickets, as you incorrectly state), completely unrelated to these people being under surveillance at the time for being armed and in tactical gear, is dubious to put it mildly.

Re:Police arrest apparent leader of cultlike 'Zizian' group ... by gruez on Monday February 17, 2025 @09:04PM (#43085329)
>So these guys were being surveilled for being armed and decked out in tactical gear, so the authorities send in a lone traffic cop to pull them over? And predictably, the cop is killed.

Was there any indication the police was "sent" to pull them over, rather than some sort of routine traffic stop? The article mentions the DHS surveillance was only "periodic", which implied they weren't really keeping tabs on them 24/7.

Re:Police arrest apparent leader of cultlike 'Zizian' group ... by sva_ on Monday February 17, 2025 @09:08PM (#43085357)
> so the authorities send in a lone traffic cop to pull them over?

It was more than one agent who pulled them over, and it isn't clear they were pulled over as a result of being put under surveillance.

Re:Police arrest apparent leader of cultlike 'Zizian' group ... by nl on Monday February 17, 2025 @11:02PM (#43085951)
The stop was performed by someone who wasn't associated with the ongoing surveillance and from a different agency.

It's a lot more likely that he just didn't know rather than some conspiracy for unknown purposes.

Re:Police arrest apparent leader of cultlike 'Zizian' group ... by beefnugs on Tuesday February 18, 2025 @12:16AM (#43086303)
There is dashcam of this available, so disturbing, even more so when you find out it was completely avoidable