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Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by UltraSane on Monday February 10, 2025 @08:13PM (#43007712)
Tesla sales are collapsing globally partly due to Musk's mental breakdown and are not likely to recover much, especially since Tesla no longer really has a CEO.
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by saagarjha on Monday February 10, 2025 @09:46PM (#43008371)
The stock seems to be unaware though
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by SR2Z on Monday February 10, 2025 @10:00PM (#43008448)
The stock has certainly responded, although only time will tell if it'll return to a more sensible valuation.

My guess is that this robotaxi launch will make or break the company. If the product looks like any other first-gen driverless service, Tesla is screwed.

The price to upgrade all those older Teslas is gonna be gigantic and the company is already heavily scrutinized for their lackadaisical approach to QA and safety.

Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by floatrock on Monday February 10, 2025 @10:01PM (#43008450)
Stock is betting on VP Musk continuing to pull up the ladder for all the EV competitors. Tesla CEO Musk got his fed grants to build out his charger network, now it's time to make sure no one else does so his remains on top.

Downvote if you must, but the man knows how to protect his moats while branding it "ending wasteful government spending".

Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by onemoresoop on Monday February 10, 2025 @11:54PM (#43009118)
He may know some things, he got pretty far. But he seems to make some of the dumbest moves. While his 180 turn in politics may have got him closer to his power goals he alientated too many people who used to buy into his vision. Republicans don’t care about EVs or whatever Musk wants to sell them so it seems poorly though out…
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by tarsinge on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @01:39AM (#43009707)
But competitors are already here and as others have stated Tesla sales are free falling outside the US, at best that’ll only work for the US. Even in that best case I don’t think that market alone justify the stock valuation. But even in the US I don’t get what will be the Tesla mass demographics anymore.
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by more_corn on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @02:11PM (#43016964)
Down 5% today 11.6% this week 14% this month

The stock seems to be waking up to the problem. Sales are down 12% in Europe in Jan. Down 60% in Germany. Apparently German electric car drivers are not fans of Nazis. Who knew?

Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by fshr on Monday February 10, 2025 @09:59PM (#43008436)
To me it seems to have very little to do with his antics. Surely inflation, market saturation, and increased competition is more probable?
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by whynotminot on Monday February 10, 2025 @11:01PM (#43008798)
He said “partly” — seems reasonable that throwing nazi salutes around might have a partial impact on declining sales?
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by penjelly on Monday February 10, 2025 @11:17PM (#43008905)
sales were trending down significantly in Europe even before the salute though.
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by onemoresoop on Monday February 10, 2025 @11:44PM (#43009062)
That doesn’t mean Musk’s gesture didn’t accelerate the downward trend. But I agree with the general sentiment. Overall Teslas can’t compete with other EV makers because as soon as there’s a real market Tesla isn’t that attractive anymore outside of a brand loyal niche. Musk appears to have lost his magic, or perhaps his mind too. Dude looks quite disheveled these days..
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by bdangubic on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @06:28AM (#43011593)
because as soon as there’s a real market Tesla isn’t that attractive anymore outside of a brand loyal niche.

can't be further from the truth. if you drive tesla and then drive all of the competitors tesla is faaar superior car. cars are great. the core issue here are margins - before competition tesla's could retain the huge margins on their vehicles. feels like in order to compete now they will have to drop the prices and hence their margins and with the forward p/e ratio of 1,000,129 that won't go well for the company's financials. and of course elon being a tool isn't going to be helping with this :)

Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by onemoresoop on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @07:11AM (#43011899)
If they drop price tesla still can’t compete because they are lacking the capacity to increase production
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by bdangubic on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @11:34AM (#43014848)
they'd be just fine if they sell all the cars they currently have capacity to make with their current margins... not to satisfy the insane evaluation but in general :)
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by UltraSane on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @10:11AM (#43013677)
Many people will NEVER buy a Tesla because they don't like Musk's politics or behavior.
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by bdangubic on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @11:33AM (#43014831)
perhaps but I was not commenting on elon or his politics and repercussions from him going full-on insane, I was specifically commenting on because as soon as there’s a real market Tesla isn’t that attractive anymore outside of a brand loyal niche.
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by pseudony on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @02:55PM (#43017555)
Have a model Y. Had a vw ID.5 before (leased), his assessment is correct. Tesla is a decent car with a NICE infotainment system. VW's Android system is not wow'ing anyone, but the car is quieter, handles better, turns on a dime, suspension is way more comfy etc - Volkswagen Group knows how to make a car. (And yea, as a European, this will be my last US oligarch/Nazi car)
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by malloryerik on Monday February 10, 2025 @11:11PM (#43008868)
Oh no, it's in great part due to his antics. Owning a Tesla used to be about a positive future, the transition to sustainability, and with great engineering and making it sexy. Now owning a Tesla seems to be about kneeling to Moloch, paying for plutocracy, gleefully cutting basic food aid for the world's poorest starving children, undermining democracy around the world, and yes even doing a fascist salute. So, you want that as your brand? And yes, there's now much better competition, but unlike what one might gather from certain "conservative" news sources, the EV market has grown and continues to grow. [1] My guess is Tesla sales will continue to collapse.

The robo-taxi attempt is fraught and Musk's mind seems elsewhere -- swinging a wrecking ball on government, turning Twitter into his microphone (with great damage to its value and creating a real opening for competitors), posting videogame results reminiscent of the old North Korean dictator Kim Il Sung-style, where the newspaper would report on his games of golf in which he swung 18 hole-in-ones.

By hitching his wagon to political movements most despised by the consumers of EVs he's alienated Tesla's audience. By his further actions he's shocked and disgusted them so that driving a Tesla is becoming an embarrassment. The brand is kaput.

There's maybe a separate China story but it's no better. Tesla taxis in China, really?

[1] Global electric vehicle sales up 25% in record 2024 - https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/global...

Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by AtlasBarfed on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @08:51AM (#43012695)
I'm actually shocked in such a media and marketing driven society that absolutely, nobody brings up the fact that the Tesla brand has been completely destroyed in the US and EU.

Companies simply do not survive this in the long run unless very specific inelastic demand (I'm thinking bp oil spill as the only example) exists, and even then BP wasn't as international or charged or so ... Nazi.

Tesla is musk. Musk is a Nazi. Musk was a progressive environmental future in the previous media construction.

That radical shift means no brand, no customers. How many people want to drive a car that basically has a swastika on it? 4% of the population?

On top of this, musks absent leadership since the model Y, in addition to Tesla's general problems getting new designs out the door, and his marketing ignorance in the good days, means Tesla has no badge diversification a luxury marque, no extensive model diversity for all the markets of the world, no cabin options for their extreme design, no trims and body style variations.

It's just the 3 and Y basically.

Tesla should have bought another car company to gain engineer, design, oem relationships, and manufacturing capacity.

Too late. Tesla is now a pump and dump scheme, musk wants his 60 billion that Delaware is holding up and then he'll sell off just like the board is doing now.

China will seize teskas assets on a whim from a trade war or a hot war with Taiwan.

The energy sector is not one I look forward to, Tesla doesn't have any advantage in battery packaging or battery technology("battery day" is now officially a dud), and lfp lmfp and sodium ion chemistries are far more suited to grid storage and home storage.

We all know AI driving at Q4 isnt happening under musk. It's a long slog and musk fires software teams too quickly, because he treats them like hardware. That's basically all the hype.

Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by motorest on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @04:36AM (#43010776)
> To me it seems to have very little to do with his antics.

For your hypothesis to make sense, first you would have to establish that Musk's antics have no negative impact on Musk's public opinion or public image.

In the meantime, you've started to see a global wave of both Tesla stores and Tesla cars being vandalized in protest over Musk's public support for Nazism. In some cases such as Germany you even had public protests against the neonazi party that Musk supports and promotes.

So you establish the fact that throughout the world people started protesting Musk due to his public actions. Do you think this change in public sentiment brings with it a neutral impact on sales?

Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by youngtaff on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @06:15AM (#43011493)
EV sales are generally growing in Europe

Tesla sales are static or shrinking

Take January YoY in the UK, EV sales rose 24%, Tesla's sales dropped 8% ish

Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by theshrike79 on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @06:32AM (#43011624)
Tesla is a very very nice computer with a decent car attached to it.

In the best of times Musk's leadership brought us stuff like "Joe Mode" just because he saw someone complain on Twitter.

Now he's completely unhinged and we can't trust him even as much as before. He might just decide something crazy and force the factories to change it just because.

Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by Geee on Monday February 10, 2025 @10:12PM (#43008505)
This is not true. Tesla recently released new Model Y [0], and there's a gap in sales because of that transition. The old Model Y was the best selling car of any kind in 2024 globally.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQ6e4-1uuGA

Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by youngtaff on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @06:16AM (#43011508)
Looking at the 'best selling car' creates a distorted view

Tesla's sales are spread over a few models, VW's EV sales are spread over ten or so models

Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by Zigurd on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @10:51AM (#43014247)
It's either "a new car" or the same model that accounts for nearly all Tesla sales making it "best selling" compared to makers with newer cars and a wider selection. So... which?
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by Geee on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @11:21AM (#43014684)
What? They updated Model Y, which has been the best selling car in 2023 and 2024.
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by ako on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @02:19AM (#43009942)
I don’t think this is a mental breakdown instead he’s showing his real evil nature
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by blitzar on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @04:20AM (#43010678)
I wish I could get paid $50bn to have a mental breakdown.
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by ZeroGravitas on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @06:27AM (#43011588)
Pretty sure most people would have a mental breakdown if given 50 billion.

Imagine if pretending to be your friend was basically a fortune 500 size industry.

Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by theGnuMe on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @01:47PM (#43016615)
I remember when we thought we could just pay Trump 1-2 billion to go away. That would've been a good deal and is cheap in retrospect. And maybe Biden should have pardoned him immediately to kick the can down the road on SCOTUS deciding to allow Presidential immunity.. It probably would've happened anyway but it would've given the project2025 and Thiel libertarians less time to organize.
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by ModernMech on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @02:19PM (#43017075)
Didn't work for Neville Chamberlain, I don't think it would have worked for us.
Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by roomey on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @04:26AM (#43010721)
Mental breakdown?

No, he is greedy, this is greed. He is greedy for power and money.

As Terry Pratchett alludes to many of his books, the problems start when you treat other people as "things". And this is rife at the moment. So mental breakdown doesn't really cover it.

Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by bdhcuidbebe on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @08:15AM (#43012386)
yea, his mental breakdown.

Come on, you cannot have missed this.

We started seeing signs of it when he called that diver rescuer a pedophile. Most recently its been him high on ketamine doing hitler salutes on the inaguration

Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by AtlasBarfed on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @08:36AM (#43012560)
Musk is the living embodiment of the ultra rich wet dream.

Nazi salute (two actually) on national television? Destroy government extra legally with presidential pardon immunity? Bust on minorities etc with social impunity?

He doesn't just have eff you money, he has eff you status. No longer being restricted to the milquetoast middle ground CEO trap. Unrestricted treatment of low money people as subhumans. nothing like rights or laws to get in the way.

Thing is, his stock is very very tied to perception, which is a synonym for "hype".

You can see this emerging unrestraint coming from virtually all of silicon valley "leadership". Allin podcast. Zuck the MMA wannabe. Larry Ellison (the archetype) in orbit with trump. Gleeful twitters about eliminating all jobs with AI.

And yet we are entering an era of geopolitical uncertainty, war, reonshoring of manufacturing. To fight looming conflicts with China and Russia, what is needed is functioning institutional democracy, not venal banal oligarchical corruption.

The other historical danger is that the rich poor gap is indicative of a forthcoming rebellion of the lower class. Trump is himself a symptom of this, and while the poor continue to divide themselves between the two parties, Trump shows that wild unpredictable swings in voter sentiment can bring unexpected candidates to the fore.

All it takes is one charismatic candidate to pledge to cull the rich and being universal healthcare...

Re:Elon Musk-Led Group Makes $97.4B Bid for Control of OpenAI by Zigurd on Tuesday February 11, 2025 @10:46AM (#43014171)
Recent price declines have just knocked the froth off the top of what is still an extremely frothy stock. About 20X industry PE ratios. I could imagine 5X to be sustainable, but...